Update on "My Lab has a Tumor"

[Leo4Me]

I posted about my lab having a tumor that needed to be removed about a week and a half ago. They sent the tumor to the lab and it came back as being a Hemangiopericytoma, the mitotic figures (i'm usure if that was exactly what it's called) are 0-1. This tumor was on the upper part of my my dogs foot, very hard to remove it completely. The vet wants to keep his eye on it monthly, if it comes back he said they will have to amputate. He also said this type of tumor doesn't spread, why would the foot have to be amputated, can't it just be removed again if it grows back? The vet said that with the mitotic levels being low, the chances of it returning are low, is this true? I just wanted to see if anyone here has knowledge or experience with this type of tumor so I will be more educated when it comes time to make a decision. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

[E's]

Just a layperson's opinion: These days DVMs, like MDs et cetera, find it advisable to tell clients or patients more than was thought necessary in the past. Year or so ago my GSD developed a cyst on her flank. This was aspirated - i.e. form of biopsy where fluid extracted by needle is tested - and tests results said benign. Yet the vet (not my regular vet) had to say this meant "almost surely" benign... Then, my dog kept biting at the lump. Fearing inflammation, regular vet excised the cyst (a full-scale op, with general anesthetic and the whole 9 yards )... Once again, tests showed the cyst to be only a lipoma [sp?] and completely benign. Yet, STILL the good doc was obliged to give me the spiel about "chances of return etc. etc. etc."

So this is my advice: If you do not know the vet well and/or trust her/him utterly, or even if you just want a better understanding of the situation, period, then it is completely ethical for you to get a second and even a third opinion on this case. And at the same time, there are many url sites dealing with cysts... I don't have my bookmarks available on this browser, but am sure jdf and a number of others here can help with this. Best of luck to you and your pupper.
Dot B

[davet]

the only reason, i think for amputation would be metastesize into the bone...which i would have to look up to see if it can happen... the other problem being that if it grew rapicly there would not be enoud skin to cover the wound, even with cutaneous flapping etc....but i would just play it by ear but i and a lot of otheres on the board have had three legged dogs and they do fine, besides they get a lot more attention in that condition, which they love...but don't anticipat anything yet....

[LM]

The mitotic figure is an indication of how many dividing cells the pathologist saw. 0 is none. I don't know if it's an exact count, or some kind of scale. But 0-1 is a good figure to have. I know with melanoma, it's considered benign if it's under 2. So, it does seems it is slow growing and I would assume that the chances of it returning or getting worse are much lower than if the figures were bigger.

Surgery on the foot is very difficult. At the end of last year, with my dog's history (a precancerous melanotic tumor and mast cell cancer tumor), my vet and I went ahead and had a small lump (under 1/2" wide) removed on the top of her toe when path reports from needle biopsies were inconclusive. My vet had to pull up some between toe webbing to cover it. Then there was more than 2 weeks of binding it as tight as I dared to keep her toes from splaying at all when she walked, getting my dog to leave it all on, etc. The incision was very fragile for a long time too, too much running around and it would bleed for a few weeks after the stitches were removed. The lump turned out to be nothing serious, and all she has for our trouble now is a scar.

If it's large, your vet would want to avoid surgery there if possible, getting the skin to make up the breach would be difficult and could requre a graft. Amputation for your dog could be a consideration only if it did shift into a higher gear and start metasticizing. Your vet is just telling you the possiblities.

And even if you DO have a vet that you utterly trust like I do, get another opinion anyway if you have any doubts as E's suggests, maybe even see an oncologist. A good vet should have no problem referring you to a specialist if you ask. I got something like 9 opinions on chemo for my dog's mast cell cancer, 8 of which agreed with each other to not do chemo (talk about paranoid!). It will be handy to have your own copies of all the lab reports if you can get them to show other vets, as well as learn how to read them and understand what's going on better yourself.

Here's a link to start looking for tumor/ cancer info
http://members.aol.com/pbl2/cancerfiles.htm

You can see the dark spot from her toe surgery in this pic from last weekend, it's on her hind foot where the brown meets the white. (yeah, she did good this weekend!)
<img src="http://www.wonderpuppy.net/misc4/L1st.jpg">

[k9Karen]

Ah - Mickey had a hemangiopericytoma (a type of spindle cell tumor) a little over two years ago. This is a type of tumor that is rarely metastatic (less than 2%). Local recurrance is likely (30%), especially if not all of the tissue was removed during the original surgery. Mickey's was also on his foot. My vet had never seen this type of tumor before.

IMHO, and it's strictly my opinion, no need to amputate, no matter what. I don't know how old your dog is, but a second surgery to remove a regrowing tumor would make more sense, but only if it interferes with his ablility to walk. Mickey's was fine for 2 years, but it looks like it's starting to slowly grow back now. He is 16 and I will do nothing about it. I am quite certain he will die of something else long before this becomes a problem for him.

[Thanks Everyone!]

I think I will just play it by ear. I'm going to do whatever I can to avoid amputation, if it means my dog having to keep getting the tumor removed then so be it. He will be more unhappy without a foot then he would be if he has to have a surgery every once in a while. Since it is on his foot, there really isn't much tissue to play with, in fact, the vet had a very hard time suturing the tissue back together for this surgery. I'm hoping that if we catch it before it becomes too large, it can be removed again without that much trouble. He prepared me for amputation because of that reason. I do feel that he was preparing me for the worst, I will just hope for the best. I will be taking him to the vet about once a month for him to be monitored though.

LM....your dog is beautiful! I do see the spot where her tumor was removed, I'm glad that she is doing well!

Karen...thank you for posting your story. I wasn't aware of the recurrance percentage. My dog is 7, they were unable to get all of the tissue out since it was on his foot, I will be prepared for it's recurrance. I hope Mickey is doing well!

Thanks again everyone!

[Leo4ME]

Well, I guess I typed the subject in the username field by mistake lol. Sorry, but thanks again everyone!