Back & Tail Spasms
Back & Tail Spasms
I am not sure if the timing is coincidence or not. My cat got out and disappeared for a week aroung the 4th of July. She finally came home and was nice an plump (which is odd because she is a siamese) and her coat was nice and soft and shiny (which was odd because it was over 110 degrees that week) She just didn't seem like she had been outside in the desert for a whole week. Anyway, a few days after she returned I noticed her running around the house like a maniac, she would stop every once in a while and bite at her tail. I thought maybe she had a bug or something on her so I picked her up and checked her out but could not find anything. I didn't really notice it again too much until a couple days ago. Now it seems to be worse, every night she spends hours growling and biting at her tail, which you can see twitching. I can also see all of her back muscles spasm, as well as her ear twitching at the same time. She seems very uncomfortable and she is growling at her tail. I have an appointment scheduled for Friday, but if anyone can give me an idea about what is going on with her I would appreciate it. It would be really horrible if there was something wrong with her because she is my daughter's cat and they are very close to each other. I am not sure if this matters or not but the cat is 3.5 years old and spayed, had her shots, the whole bit.
Re: Back & Tail Spasms
Two possibilities immediately come to mind...one being fleas..you might not be able to see them right away or directly, but she could very well have picked up fleas during her outing. Another possibility might be an injury that is infected, look for any open cuts, wounds, abcesses, etc....also when you get her examined, ask your vet to rule out dermatitis conditions, anything she could have picked up from her outdoor adventure. Be prepared he may want to do a skin scrape (painless procedure), this can be effective for identifying flea allergy dermatitis and other skin conditions, mites, etc.
Hopefully nothing serious. If possilbe, try to up that appointment to tomorrow. If she exhibits any other signs of distress or illness, don't even wait, get her seen immediately or get to an ER clinic. One can never assume what she might have been in contact with outdoors.
Hopefully nothing serious. If possilbe, try to up that appointment to tomorrow. If she exhibits any other signs of distress or illness, don't even wait, get her seen immediately or get to an ER clinic. One can never assume what she might have been in contact with outdoors.
..........Traci
Re: Back & Tail Spasms
Thanks for the reply, I don't really think it's fleas because it seems like she does not have control over her own tail, plus we use a flea mousse on her. She seems healthy otherwise, her nose is cold and wet, she's eating fine. But I will definitely have the vet check those things out.
Thanks again
Thanks again
Re: Back & Tail Spasms
Can you tell me what the product is you are using for flea control? (Ideally, Frontline or Advantage are your safest and most effective products for cats, please check another thread in this forum titled "Permethrin" for a discussion on flea control products, safety and evaluation, including dangers of over-the-counter products)
You might not see the fleas, but the larvae could certainly be a problem.
As a reminder, what you describe could also be a reaction to pain, as in an injury from trauma of some sort. The growling could certainly rule in pain from an injury, so for this reason, I strongly suggest trying to get her seen immediately, before the problem escalates. Also it sounds like she is truly miserable, best to get the problem detected and treated right away.
You might not see the fleas, but the larvae could certainly be a problem.
As a reminder, what you describe could also be a reaction to pain, as in an injury from trauma of some sort. The growling could certainly rule in pain from an injury, so for this reason, I strongly suggest trying to get her seen immediately, before the problem escalates. Also it sounds like she is truly miserable, best to get the problem detected and treated right away.
..........Traci
Re: Back & Tail Spasms
Traci,
I tried to send a private message but I'm not sure it worked. It was Zodiac Fleatrol Mousse. Nothing called Permethrin is listed as an ingredient.
I tried to send a private message but I'm not sure it worked. It was Zodiac Fleatrol Mousse. Nothing called Permethrin is listed as an ingredient.
Re: Back & Tail Spasms
Kellee, I'm not familiar with Zodiac products but according to OSU's pest management bulletin, some of the company's products are under review and consideration for registration withdrawal for containing products associated with toxicity. I didn't see the feline Fleatrol Mousse listed, but just the same, not sure I'd want to be using a product from this company.
Please talk to your vet about this product, maybe have him review it in his toxicology references.....not saying the Fleatrol is a toxicity potential, just want you to run it by your vet.
Also, wanted to mention, you might not be finding fleas, but again the larvae could be present, or, she could have been bitten and be suffering a reaction. Also need to rule out potential insect bites, spiderbite, etc. Without seeing her, I'm simply trying to give you potential concerns and stress to get her seen.
Please talk to your vet about this product, maybe have him review it in his toxicology references.....not saying the Fleatrol is a toxicity potential, just want you to run it by your vet.
Also, wanted to mention, you might not be finding fleas, but again the larvae could be present, or, she could have been bitten and be suffering a reaction. Also need to rule out potential insect bites, spiderbite, etc. Without seeing her, I'm simply trying to give you potential concerns and stress to get her seen.
..........Traci
Re: Back & Tail Spasms
Well, as I suspected Isis does not have fleas. The vet said that she may have a vitmin deficiency, or it could be seizures. He put her on a vitamin suppliment with orders to watch and keep a log of the spasms. If they get really bad or if she gets disoriented I am to take her back immediatly.
I know this board is meant to be helpful. But I can't help feeling that my post with a real concern was not taken seriously. The next time someone posts about muscle spasms in their cat, please take a minute and think about the advice that you are giving out. I realise that you (people in this forum) are just trying to be helpful, and I don't mean to sound ungrateful.
By the way, I have learned that it is too hot for fleas to live here right now and that Arizona does not have a "flea season" like some states... something else to think about when dolling out advice.
I know this board is meant to be helpful. But I can't help feeling that my post with a real concern was not taken seriously. The next time someone posts about muscle spasms in their cat, please take a minute and think about the advice that you are giving out. I realise that you (people in this forum) are just trying to be helpful, and I don't mean to sound ungrateful.
By the way, I have learned that it is too hot for fleas to live here right now and that Arizona does not have a "flea season" like some states... something else to think about when dolling out advice.
Re: Back & Tail Spasms
Kellee, whatever do you mean by your post was not taken seriously? We take EVERY post here seriously, but we can NOT diagnose here, we can only read between the lines of your post, and make a fair assumption based ONLY on the information you give. If you read through the forum, you'll find that there is immeasurable experience here, and we never hesitate to encourage posters to get their cats to their vets immediately if there is a problem. What more would you expect us to do?
Btw, the information/advise given you was from an emergency vet tech (me). I always take into account the history, the symptoms, and the verbal account that is given in posts here to try to reach potential concerns in which I can advise further. This forum is NEVER to be used as a substitute for veterinary care and attention, you need to take that into consideration....owners must take the responsibility upon themselves to get their pets to a veterinarian for diagnosis and treatment.
For your review:
1) Your cat got out on or about the 4th of July and returned 7 days later. Today is August 1, exactly 20 days after her return. Is there any plausible reason she was not seen earlier? Why didn't you get her seen after you first noticed the symptoms?
2) Based on your post, she was gone 7 days outside. There are various outdoor hazards, weather concerns, potential accidents that could have occured that could contribute to the signs and symptoms you described (ear and tail twitching as the chief complaint, such as fleas, or trauma as I mentioned)
3) I advised you to get your kitty seen earlier.
I am curious how your vet came to the conclusion of a vitamin deficiency and possible seizure activity (your account is that she was plump, fur in good condition, etc, this does not necessarily indicate a vitamin deficiency,...unless of course you revealed that her prior dietary history has been severely lacking). Did you give to him the exact same account as you did on this forum? What diagnostics did he use to come to these conclusions? Did he perform bloodwork to diagnose vitamin deficiency, and if so, what chemical enzymes were off or concerning? If he did not perform bloodwork, how did he reach this conclusion?
I would also like to know how he concluded possible seizure activity. Did your kitty ever have a prior history of the two episodes you described on this forum? Did he again, perform bloodwork to rule out potential organ failure, toxins, infectious agents, etc (that can be a cause of seizure activity)?
Did he do a thorough exam of her ears to check for mites? Did he fully evaluate her tail or take an x-ray and look for bites, punctures,, inflammation, etc, and did he do a skin scrape to rule out fleas or mites or fungal problems? If so, how does this diagnose possible seizure activity?
Btw, fleas can live in nearly any environment, moist or dry.
Now, if you can honestly tell me you gave your vet the exact same account you gave in this forum and he magically came to a conclusion of vitamin deficiency and possible seizures, then I've been in the wrong business. Otherwise, if he performed no specific diagnostics, and merely sent you home with a dietary supplement, then it's time you seek another opinion and immediately I might add. If he DID perform diagnostics, I'd be interested in hearing about what those were, and would like an account of bloodwork and lab results that indicated vitamin deficiency.
Lastly, we do not "doll out advice here", we take the health and safety of pets very seriously here, and have no indications other than what a poster chooses to include in his/her post. Again, we do NOT diagnose here, that would be outside of ethical bounds of both my profession and that of the veterinarian/client/patient relationship.
The next time you feel the need to question someone who is giving you advice (and freely I might add), instead of getting on the net, I suggest you call your vet instead.
Btw, the information/advise given you was from an emergency vet tech (me). I always take into account the history, the symptoms, and the verbal account that is given in posts here to try to reach potential concerns in which I can advise further. This forum is NEVER to be used as a substitute for veterinary care and attention, you need to take that into consideration....owners must take the responsibility upon themselves to get their pets to a veterinarian for diagnosis and treatment.
For your review:
1) Your cat got out on or about the 4th of July and returned 7 days later. Today is August 1, exactly 20 days after her return. Is there any plausible reason she was not seen earlier? Why didn't you get her seen after you first noticed the symptoms?
2) Based on your post, she was gone 7 days outside. There are various outdoor hazards, weather concerns, potential accidents that could have occured that could contribute to the signs and symptoms you described (ear and tail twitching as the chief complaint, such as fleas, or trauma as I mentioned)
3) I advised you to get your kitty seen earlier.
I am curious how your vet came to the conclusion of a vitamin deficiency and possible seizure activity (your account is that she was plump, fur in good condition, etc, this does not necessarily indicate a vitamin deficiency,...unless of course you revealed that her prior dietary history has been severely lacking). Did you give to him the exact same account as you did on this forum? What diagnostics did he use to come to these conclusions? Did he perform bloodwork to diagnose vitamin deficiency, and if so, what chemical enzymes were off or concerning? If he did not perform bloodwork, how did he reach this conclusion?
I would also like to know how he concluded possible seizure activity. Did your kitty ever have a prior history of the two episodes you described on this forum? Did he again, perform bloodwork to rule out potential organ failure, toxins, infectious agents, etc (that can be a cause of seizure activity)?
Did he do a thorough exam of her ears to check for mites? Did he fully evaluate her tail or take an x-ray and look for bites, punctures,, inflammation, etc, and did he do a skin scrape to rule out fleas or mites or fungal problems? If so, how does this diagnose possible seizure activity?
Btw, fleas can live in nearly any environment, moist or dry.
Now, if you can honestly tell me you gave your vet the exact same account you gave in this forum and he magically came to a conclusion of vitamin deficiency and possible seizures, then I've been in the wrong business. Otherwise, if he performed no specific diagnostics, and merely sent you home with a dietary supplement, then it's time you seek another opinion and immediately I might add. If he DID perform diagnostics, I'd be interested in hearing about what those were, and would like an account of bloodwork and lab results that indicated vitamin deficiency.
Lastly, we do not "doll out advice here", we take the health and safety of pets very seriously here, and have no indications other than what a poster chooses to include in his/her post. Again, we do NOT diagnose here, that would be outside of ethical bounds of both my profession and that of the veterinarian/client/patient relationship.
The next time you feel the need to question someone who is giving you advice (and freely I might add), instead of getting on the net, I suggest you call your vet instead.
..........Traci
Re: Back & Tail Spasms
I knew, I just knew that that you would take that personally.
First off let me just say that I was not using this forum as a substitute for veterinary care. Right up front I posted that I had already scheduled an appointment. After doing research on possible causes I came to the board, not to get free veterinary advice, but to see if any other cat owners had experienced the same types of thing with their cats. As for whether or not it was soon enough, well that was the soonest I could get her in. You see, I am a single mother who does not have the luxury of just taking off from my job at any time so I had to set the appointment at a time when I was not working. Please spare me the “well if it was your child would you have waited to take her to the doctor” types of things because if it was my child I still wouldn’t be able to take off of work, their grandmother would have to take them. Also I cannot afford to pay $150 for a visit to the emergency vet clinic after hours. That’s just for the office visit, that’s not including the vet actually looking at the cat.
After doing research on possible causes I came to the board, not to get free veterinary advice, but to see if any other cat owners had experienced the same types of thing with their cats.
So, with that being said let me just answer your review…..
”1) Your cat got out on or about the 4th of July and returned 7 days later. Today is August 1, exactly 20 days after her return. Is there any plausible reason she was not seen earlier? Why didn't you get her seen after you first noticed the symptoms? “
Notice I did not say that the first time I saw her with the muscle spasm that I did not realize that it was a muscle spasm. I thought she had an ant or something on her so I picked her up and checked her out, but found nothing. Notice I also said that I did not notice again until a few days ago.
2) Based on your post, she was gone 7 days outside. There are various outdoor hazards, weather concerns, potential accidents that could have occured that could contribute to the signs and symptoms you described (ear and tail twitching as the chief complaint, such as fleas, or trauma as I mentioned) Notice that while the tail was the chief complaint I also mentioned the back spasms were visible.
3) I advised you to get your kitty seen earlier..
See the paragraph at the beginning of this post.
I am curious how your vet came to the conclusion of a vitamin deficiency and possible seizure activity (your account is that she was plump, fur in good condition, etc, this does not necessarily indicate a vitamin deficiency,...unless of course you revealed that her prior dietary history has been severely lacking). Did you give to him the exact same account as you did on this forum? What diagnostics did he use to come to these conclusions? Did he perform bloodwork to diagnose vitamin deficiency, and if so, what chemical enzymes were off or concerning? If he did not perform bloodwork, how did he reach this conclusion?
Oh yes, I gave him the same account, he even noticed that she had gained weight since her last visit, and he also noticed that her hair was soft, she was flea free. Her heart sounded good. Etc…. He asked me if she ate a lot of fish. He did not want to do bloodwork just yet. He stated that in many cases he has seen the muscle contractions are caused by vitamin or mineral deficiency, similar to that in a person who is lacking potassium, etc… He gave me the vitamins to try for a month before he went any further. I did mention that in my last post. Not every vet wants to poke and prod the cat and run needless blood tests if they are not necessary. By the way I use this same vet for my dog, my sister uses him for her two cats, and he was also the vet my sister used for the last ten years of her late cat who died when he was 21 years old. He seems to know what he is doing.
I would also like to know how he concluded possible seizure activity. Did your kitty ever have a prior history of the two episodes you described on this forum? Did he again, perform bloodwork to rule out potential organ failure, toxins, infectious agents, etc (that can be a cause of seizure activity)? He said that the activity was consistent to the beginnings of seizures which are not common, but not unheard of in cats. I would imagine that since he is a vet, he does know a little bit about animals. By the way, my friend has a dog who has epileptic seizures, her vet never did any blood tests on him either but yet they still were able to diagnose it.
Did he do a thorough exam of her ears to check for mites? Did he fully evaluate her tail or take an x-ray and look for bites, punctures,, inflammation, etc, and did he do a skin scrape to rule out fleas or mites or fungal problems? If so, how does this diagnose possible seizure activity? Yes, he checked her ears. He did spend about 20 minutes running his hands along her back, tail, and head. He checked for sore spots, looked at her tummy, etc…
Btw, fleas can live in nearly any environment, moist or dry. By the way, in July the average temperature here was 115 degrees. My vet assured me that the fleas could not survive because they would not have enough moisture. If you know more than my vet, then why is he a vet and you are a technician?
Now, if you can honestly tell me you gave your vet the exact same account you gave in this forum and he magically came to a conclusion of vitamin deficiency and possible seizures, then I've been in the wrong business. Otherwise, if he performed no specific diagnostics, and merely sent you home with a dietary supplement, then it's time you seek another opinion and immediately I might add. If he DID perform diagnostics, I'd be interested in hearing about what those were, and would like an account of bloodwork and lab results that indicated vitamin deficiency. I can honestly say I gave him the same account, and answered about a million questions. By the way, my doctor doesn’t always need to take blood when I visit him yet he “Magically” is able to diagnose many health problems anyway. Hmmm maybe I should start seeking other advice there too? I certainly would much rather pay someone else 50 times more to do needless bloodtest and xrays whenever possible!
Lastly, we do not "doll out advice here", we take the health and safety of pets very seriously here, and have no indications other than what a poster chooses to include in his/her post. Again, we do NOT diagnose here, that would be outside of ethical bounds of both my profession and that of the veterinarian/client/patient relationship. I don’t doubt that you have the worlds most cared for and loved animals. However, a bit of advice…Maybe you should extend some of that compassion towards the humans that post here.
The next time you feel the need to question someone who is giving you advice (and freely I might add), instead of getting on the net, I suggest you call your vet instead.
Actually I got some great advice for free through this forum, a pet owner who e-mailed me privately. She was not a VET TECHNICIAN, just another pet owner. She was kind and gave me some insight about what she experience with her cat. It wasn’t clinical, there were not blood tests involved, yet she still managed to give me a really good idea about what’s going on. And the best part was that she didn’t treat me like I was less educated about my pet than she was.
First off let me just say that I was not using this forum as a substitute for veterinary care. Right up front I posted that I had already scheduled an appointment. After doing research on possible causes I came to the board, not to get free veterinary advice, but to see if any other cat owners had experienced the same types of thing with their cats. As for whether or not it was soon enough, well that was the soonest I could get her in. You see, I am a single mother who does not have the luxury of just taking off from my job at any time so I had to set the appointment at a time when I was not working. Please spare me the “well if it was your child would you have waited to take her to the doctor” types of things because if it was my child I still wouldn’t be able to take off of work, their grandmother would have to take them. Also I cannot afford to pay $150 for a visit to the emergency vet clinic after hours. That’s just for the office visit, that’s not including the vet actually looking at the cat.
After doing research on possible causes I came to the board, not to get free veterinary advice, but to see if any other cat owners had experienced the same types of thing with their cats.
So, with that being said let me just answer your review…..
”1) Your cat got out on or about the 4th of July and returned 7 days later. Today is August 1, exactly 20 days after her return. Is there any plausible reason she was not seen earlier? Why didn't you get her seen after you first noticed the symptoms? “
Notice I did not say that the first time I saw her with the muscle spasm that I did not realize that it was a muscle spasm. I thought she had an ant or something on her so I picked her up and checked her out, but found nothing. Notice I also said that I did not notice again until a few days ago.
2) Based on your post, she was gone 7 days outside. There are various outdoor hazards, weather concerns, potential accidents that could have occured that could contribute to the signs and symptoms you described (ear and tail twitching as the chief complaint, such as fleas, or trauma as I mentioned) Notice that while the tail was the chief complaint I also mentioned the back spasms were visible.
3) I advised you to get your kitty seen earlier..
See the paragraph at the beginning of this post.
I am curious how your vet came to the conclusion of a vitamin deficiency and possible seizure activity (your account is that she was plump, fur in good condition, etc, this does not necessarily indicate a vitamin deficiency,...unless of course you revealed that her prior dietary history has been severely lacking). Did you give to him the exact same account as you did on this forum? What diagnostics did he use to come to these conclusions? Did he perform bloodwork to diagnose vitamin deficiency, and if so, what chemical enzymes were off or concerning? If he did not perform bloodwork, how did he reach this conclusion?
Oh yes, I gave him the same account, he even noticed that she had gained weight since her last visit, and he also noticed that her hair was soft, she was flea free. Her heart sounded good. Etc…. He asked me if she ate a lot of fish. He did not want to do bloodwork just yet. He stated that in many cases he has seen the muscle contractions are caused by vitamin or mineral deficiency, similar to that in a person who is lacking potassium, etc… He gave me the vitamins to try for a month before he went any further. I did mention that in my last post. Not every vet wants to poke and prod the cat and run needless blood tests if they are not necessary. By the way I use this same vet for my dog, my sister uses him for her two cats, and he was also the vet my sister used for the last ten years of her late cat who died when he was 21 years old. He seems to know what he is doing.
I would also like to know how he concluded possible seizure activity. Did your kitty ever have a prior history of the two episodes you described on this forum? Did he again, perform bloodwork to rule out potential organ failure, toxins, infectious agents, etc (that can be a cause of seizure activity)? He said that the activity was consistent to the beginnings of seizures which are not common, but not unheard of in cats. I would imagine that since he is a vet, he does know a little bit about animals. By the way, my friend has a dog who has epileptic seizures, her vet never did any blood tests on him either but yet they still were able to diagnose it.
Did he do a thorough exam of her ears to check for mites? Did he fully evaluate her tail or take an x-ray and look for bites, punctures,, inflammation, etc, and did he do a skin scrape to rule out fleas or mites or fungal problems? If so, how does this diagnose possible seizure activity? Yes, he checked her ears. He did spend about 20 minutes running his hands along her back, tail, and head. He checked for sore spots, looked at her tummy, etc…
Btw, fleas can live in nearly any environment, moist or dry. By the way, in July the average temperature here was 115 degrees. My vet assured me that the fleas could not survive because they would not have enough moisture. If you know more than my vet, then why is he a vet and you are a technician?
Now, if you can honestly tell me you gave your vet the exact same account you gave in this forum and he magically came to a conclusion of vitamin deficiency and possible seizures, then I've been in the wrong business. Otherwise, if he performed no specific diagnostics, and merely sent you home with a dietary supplement, then it's time you seek another opinion and immediately I might add. If he DID perform diagnostics, I'd be interested in hearing about what those were, and would like an account of bloodwork and lab results that indicated vitamin deficiency. I can honestly say I gave him the same account, and answered about a million questions. By the way, my doctor doesn’t always need to take blood when I visit him yet he “Magically” is able to diagnose many health problems anyway. Hmmm maybe I should start seeking other advice there too? I certainly would much rather pay someone else 50 times more to do needless bloodtest and xrays whenever possible!
Lastly, we do not "doll out advice here", we take the health and safety of pets very seriously here, and have no indications other than what a poster chooses to include in his/her post. Again, we do NOT diagnose here, that would be outside of ethical bounds of both my profession and that of the veterinarian/client/patient relationship. I don’t doubt that you have the worlds most cared for and loved animals. However, a bit of advice…Maybe you should extend some of that compassion towards the humans that post here.
The next time you feel the need to question someone who is giving you advice (and freely I might add), instead of getting on the net, I suggest you call your vet instead.
Actually I got some great advice for free through this forum, a pet owner who e-mailed me privately. She was not a VET TECHNICIAN, just another pet owner. She was kind and gave me some insight about what she experience with her cat. It wasn’t clinical, there were not blood tests involved, yet she still managed to give me a really good idea about what’s going on. And the best part was that she didn’t treat me like I was less educated about my pet than she was.
Re: Back & Tail Spasms
This board wouldn't exist without compassion, Kellee, and I gave you every ounce of compassion I could, I spent a good amount of time and energy giving you possibilities. You don't mean to sound ungrateful, but it's rather obvious in your posts that you are criticizing me for not being able to diagnose your cat (which I said I will not do). As for your compassion comments, may you could exercise some of that yourself and try to be appreciative that someone took notice of your post, looked for clues, wanted to offer direction and took the time to do so.
Of course, you posted what you felt was necessary for someone to find hidden clues (which I try to do with all posts).....and only after I responded did you bother to clue me in on everything else. While it would be ideal if more people could be more thorough in their posts, unfortunately for those of us wanting to help, we can only do so much with the written word, surely you can understand that.
Please do not insult my intelligence or my experience, this is a message board, not a clinical environment in which one can examine your cat, take vitals, perform tests or other diagnostics in which to conclude a diagnosis or treat. This message board is available for owners looking for help, direction, support and helpful knowledge and experience from professionals and cat-owners alike, you were given exactly what you asked for. You asked for any possible ideas, I mentioned a few.
For what it's worth, your vet is making a presumptive diagnosis, it remains to be seen what the true diagnosis is. I do wish you luck in your endeavor to get to the bottom of this, and I do wish the very best for your kitty.
Of course, you posted what you felt was necessary for someone to find hidden clues (which I try to do with all posts).....and only after I responded did you bother to clue me in on everything else. While it would be ideal if more people could be more thorough in their posts, unfortunately for those of us wanting to help, we can only do so much with the written word, surely you can understand that.
Please do not insult my intelligence or my experience, this is a message board, not a clinical environment in which one can examine your cat, take vitals, perform tests or other diagnostics in which to conclude a diagnosis or treat. This message board is available for owners looking for help, direction, support and helpful knowledge and experience from professionals and cat-owners alike, you were given exactly what you asked for. You asked for any possible ideas, I mentioned a few.
For what it's worth, your vet is making a presumptive diagnosis, it remains to be seen what the true diagnosis is. I do wish you luck in your endeavor to get to the bottom of this, and I do wish the very best for your kitty.
..........Traci