Pooping outside of the litter box - Need help please

[Terster]

Hi,

I replied to a post with this info, and i thought maybe i should list it as a new topic also. So please forgive me if you've already seen this.

My cat is 4 years old. He goes to the vet regularly, has all his shots, is in good health, etc.

About a year ago, he started pooping outside of his litter box. It was directly in front of the box on the mat (that's been there since day 1 to collect any litter on the feet for tracking purposes).

Anyhow, i used to pick up the poo and throw it back into the litter box.

After a while it started to get progressively worse. He started going down in the dining room.

Before i did any kind of reading, and learned not to do this, i would pick him up, take him to the dining room, and put his nose it in and scold him with a harsh "NO!".

Well, that did nothing.

After about 2 months of this, he stopped going down stairs in the dining room and started going up in the bedroom. It's in the bedroom where where we've always kept the litter box, food and water.

He started going in the closet where we hang our clothes. We have to keep that door closed now. Then he started going next to where he eats. Now he's going under the bed and doing it. And when he does it, it's not 2 or 3 turds, it's like 7 or 8 of them.

He does it while we're in the room and when we're not in the room. We can be in bed watching tv and all of a sudden it's like "what's that smell" and sure enough, he did it under the bed again.

Now, he doesn't urinate anywhere except in the litter box. He will also poo now and then in the litter box, but the majority of the time, it's outside of the box, somewhere in the locations mentioned.

Things that we've tried... changing the litter every day. Trying 5 different types of littler from the cheapie stuff to the very expensive stuff, to the scented, unsented, and more. We've moved the litter box away from his food to another part of the room. We've tried several types of food (all low cal prescription stuff that the vet put him on because he's overweight) and he's like them all. We moved the food and water apart further and i have a fountain thing for his water so that it's always fresh. We've removed the litter box cover also.

Nothing is working and it's getting to the point where it's really becomming an issue. Especially since we're working on getting my wife pregnant. This can't continue.

I have also power cleaned both with a steam cleaner and also with a "little green cleaning machine". The carpets are very clean. But... not even a day later, he's pooping under the bed again.

If we go out of town for a weekend... all poop is in the litter box. No poop anywhere else.

But, once we return, he starts it up again.

Now, he knows he's doing a bad thing because the minute he does his business, if i get off the bed, he runs and cowers because he knows he's going to get scolded.

Since doing more reading, i've stopped the scolding him, i can't really catch him in the act because once i move on the bed, he knows what's coming and stops, so catching him in the act and using a spray bottle as a deterrent/negative reinforcement is next to impossible.

So, my wife and i are at a total loss as to what to do next. Our vet has recommended a pet psychologist, and i have reservations about that, but we're running out of options. Either he needs to stop or he needs to go. This is a real problem for us, and for me, because he's my boy!

IF it weren't for the pooping, he's a great cat. It's the only thing he does, but again, it's turning into a real problem.

Any ideas, suggestions or help that anyone can offer would be greatly appreciated. Please email me with comments, suggestions or questions at: terster31@hotmail.com

Thanks So much for your help.

Walt

[kate & kobi]

First, it sounds like you've talked to your vet about this, but this warrants a full examination as this could be a medical problem. If you feel like your vet is not taking your cat or this problem seriously, go to another vet and get a full work-up.

Second, try to reduce the stress in your cat's environment. Try to keep things calm and routine; cats generally like routine and hate change.

Third, scoop the box more often, at least once a day. Maybe the person who comes to take care of your cat scoops the box more often than you do; he probably doesn't like to poop in the box if there's already poop in it.

Fourth, get another litter box, a nice big one. Lots of cats like to have two different boxes.

[terster]

Hello,

Thank you for the reply.

He's had a complete work up and the vet says that other than being a little over weight, he's fine. We have him on the Waltham low cal food and he likes it.

The thing i don't understand is... why the behavior changes now?

Getting another litter box is easy, but somehow i don't think that's the issue. I don't understand how the one box has been fine all these years and then suddenly he would need a second one somewhere.

I don't know what's causing the behavior changes, but it has been gradual over the last year. Now it's ever day that he poops under the bed.

The litter box is kept clean, we've removed the lid, no liners, private, well ventilated, easy access, and it's not enough.

But, seeing as how he can be conditioned to NOT do the bad behavior... any suggestions on how to go about this? It's kinda hard to catch him poo'ing under the bed, while in the act and then using a spray bottle of water as a negative reinforcement, so, any other ideas? I hate to put a huge tarp under the bed and or fill the entire space with comforters, pillows, sleeping bags, boxes, etc... right now the entire floor space under the bed is free and open.

Any suggestions?

Thanks again for the advise.

[prettykitten]

HI.my sympathies, this is a bad situation all round. I've had cats for a lot of years and never had this exact same problem. I suggest you try enclosing him at night. Do you have a utility room or somewhere small. I say small cos then he wouldn't be able to poo away from himself.where you could put him at night with his food ,litter and tray. I certainly think he should not be in yout bedroom at night. You say you're trying for a baby. Perhaps your "activities"have increased! There may be some jealousy here... Don't think I don't love kits cos I say seperate him. I do ...but he's obviously not happy at present. if this doesn't work I would take up the animal psychologist. Good luck Ann (UK) Xxxxxxx

[Traci]

I would contribute this to some stress in the environment, namely YOURS. Cats sense when we are frustrated and he is probably just as stressed as you. Think back on other changes that have occured in the household within the last year and try to narrow some of those down.

He is obviously trying to get your attention to another matter. Whether that be a health issue or a stressful environment. May I ask WHEN was kitty's last health check-up? You mention he is overweight and on a prescription diet, but did your vet tell you that you need to monitor your kitty frequently while under a weight management program? It is important to monitor him regularly for weight loss (especially if it is sudden or drastic, weight management plans are designed for cats to lose slowly and safely, not quickly and dangerously). Losing weight too fast or sudden can predispose any cat to diabetes or severe liver failure (i.e., hepatic lipidosis) as well as cause other changes, including behavioral. So,....if you haven't had a recheck for him within the last three months, now is a good time to do so, maybe even consider testing his liver and kidney enzmye levels, and glucose levels to play everything safe.

Kate's comments about a new box or extra box are right on the mark. Most kitties appreciate an extra box, one to urinate in, the other to defecate in. (yes, cats are discreet by nature). A bigger box may help as well. Also, remember that keeping one litterbox for over a year or more, can harbor scents, bacteria, and stains, so it's a good idea to get a new box altogether after a year or so.

Prettykitten's mention of a utility room is good, but I wouldn't recommend confinement unless absolutely necessary. As evident by your post, kitty does this in front of you, at any given time, meaning it is most obvious he is trying to get your attention to some matter. I would guess it is stress. How you or your wife handle it is also a matter of importance. Again, cats can sense our stress and frustration, so try to implement a plan that is forgiving and getting to the source of the problem.

Lastly, be sure you're using an enzymatic cleaner such as Nature's Miracle for any spot cleaning, ridding the areas of prior scent, etc.

Again, if your kitty has not had a recheck by your vet within the last three months, please make that appointment today.

[terster]

Hello,

Thank you all for the advise.

To try and answer some questions... He's been on the low cal food for over a year. He's weighed approximately every 3 months. That's how i get the prescription renewed. In one years time, he's lost about 8 ounces. <lol> So, fast weight loss is not an issue. They also give him a thorough check up each time. They say that he's in great health, good coat, clean teeth, etc... simply that he's over weight. His last check up was about 6 weeks ago.

He does have plenty of food too, so he's not being starved.

We tried the Natures Miracle as well as power cleaning the carpets, but that doesn't seem to help much.


This weekend we'll go get a new/second litter box. Thanks for the answer on that. I couldn't understand why the box was fine for well over 3 years and then gradually over time he stopped using it for pooing, only peeing.

He seems like a happy cat. He sleeps up on the bed with us, he's showered with attention (by his own choosing because he's very very social and loves people), he goes into the old popcorn tin (one of those christmas pop corn tins) where he has all of his toys, and regularly knocks it over and pulls out his favorite toys and plays with them, he's a good boy, it just the poo'ing that's causing the problems.

I know that he is developing some anomosities about going under the bed, because again, up until recently, i would punish him by sticking his nose back in it. I did not know that was a bad thing.

He's also afraid of the flash light, in the bedroom, because that's what i use to look under the bed for the poo. So i know he's associating the flashlight as being a bad thing.

I'm working on changing those negative impulses... like last night, he poo'd under the bed, came out, i grabbed the flashlight and he bolted out the door. I went after him, picked him up, and brought him back into the room (we always sleep with the door closed, always have, with him in the room with us). Anyhow, he was freaking and instead of punishing him by yelling NO!, i put him up on the bed and just pet him for a while. He calmed down very quickly.

So, i don't know if this is the right thing to do because i don't want to "reward" him for bad behavior, but maybe if i can reduce the "stress" of coming to bed... it will stop. The bedroom is now the only place in the house that he is pooping. It used to be down stairs too in the Dining room, but that stopped about 5 months ago. New favorite spot... under the bed or over by his food.

Anyhow, please let me know your thoughts on this new information.

Again, thank you all for your advise... i will start with more praise and love and a new litter box, i'll work on cleaning the carpets again this weekend, and go from there.

Otherwise, like the vet suggested, a pet Psychologist might be in order.

Thanks

[Traci]

Thanks for clarifying the vet visit, good to know.

I would start first with a new box, perhaps a bit larger than this one, think of it as kitty's sandbox, most cats do like them alittle larger than standard size.

You mention his box is in the bedroom, is this your room? If so, you might want to relocate the box to a more private area, yet keep it easily accessible to him. Don't know what your home setup is like, but it appears he prefers upstairs to downstairs? He could very well be looking for privacy, an area that is not frequented by you, your wife, etc.

When you get the new box, place it not too far away from the current area, and literally place him in it once or twice a day so he gets accustomed to the new "rule" . Be patient with him, the behavior won't change overnight. Also, don't place his box anywhere near his food and water dishes......cats will not eat their food and water if it's placed too close to the litterbox, and likewise, he may not use the box if it's too close to food and water.

Give it a try for a couple weeks, remain patient and calm, remember, this is his way of trying to get your attention, so if he continues to do it, take a moment to think about the day's events, his routine (or your own, is it hectic?), and you might find the source.