Hi tracey
Long time..all is well with the liver issues..
The vet palpated him and feels he has athritis..for them to do xrays he wanted to sedate him nd with the liver issue I said no..
Benny is having a hard time sitting and scratching when he needs to reach ears or neck area..he is still jumping and wanting to go outside.
My vet in nyc suggested tramadol, duralactin adequin injections..how do you feel about these options..
My vet in mexico agrees with nyc..i just dont know which to choose for his liver..he is on cosequin now..plus 12.5 steriod every other day..ursodial daily and denamarin daily.
He is eating intestine dry food for weight gain by royal canin
Thanks
Christy
Cat liver issues
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christymexico
- Posts: 97
- Joined: Mon Feb 27, 2012 1:21 am
- Location: mexico
Re: Cat liver issues
Hi tracy,
Benny is in pain in back legs..he still jumps but sits sloely and its getting worse.
To do an xray here in mexico he wants to swdate him..with liver, i said no
He palpitated.
My vet in nyc recomended tramadol, adequin injections..how do you feel abput this?
The mex vet is in agreement woth whatever choice i make,,,he does stem cell but nyc felt the joints on cats too small to try in bennys case..
Also sedation to remove cells..its vey inexpensive here..1000 us
So he is on 12.5 predsolone..every other day
Ursodial and denamarin daily
Plus the joint supplement cosiquin.
Hes eating pooping fine..royal canin intestine dry..
What are your thoughts?
His pain is getting worse.
Thanks
Christy
Benny is in pain in back legs..he still jumps but sits sloely and its getting worse.
To do an xray here in mexico he wants to swdate him..with liver, i said no
He palpitated.
My vet in nyc recomended tramadol, adequin injections..how do you feel abput this?
The mex vet is in agreement woth whatever choice i make,,,he does stem cell but nyc felt the joints on cats too small to try in bennys case..
Also sedation to remove cells..its vey inexpensive here..1000 us
So he is on 12.5 predsolone..every other day
Ursodial and denamarin daily
Plus the joint supplement cosiquin.
Hes eating pooping fine..royal canin intestine dry..
What are your thoughts?
His pain is getting worse.
Thanks
Christy
Re: Cat liver issues
Depending on the age, and if this is diagnosed definitively as arthritis, then the adequan injections might work better - be advised these are given in the muscle, and you need to watch Benny for side effects (or pain at the injection site). The injections would require possibly twice a week injections for a total of around 6 doses, then dosed on an as-needed basis.
Important! If you choose the adequan injections, please ask your NYC vet the following, first! :
1) Are there any contraindications of giving adequan injections when Benny is on prednisone and ursodial?
With any steroid meds (prednisone), adequan may be contraindicated. Ask the NYC vet if it's possible to use a low-dose of adequan since Benny is also on the prednisone.
Likewise, ask if the prednisone should ALSO be a lower dose if an adequan low-dose is used.
2) Is there any contraindications of giving adequan injections when Benny has a chronic liver condition?
I do know that liver and kidney enzyme levels can be changed when there is a liver or kidney condition already present, it's important you discuss this in detail with the vet.
Also ask if platelet function tests and blood clotting factor tests should be done during the use of adequan, or the use of adequan AND prednisone together.
3) Remind the vet about Benny's age.
I don't recommend pain medications (like tramadol) for long term use, unless absolutely necessary. With the absence of a physical exam and xray from your NYC vet (whom I'd prefer over your Mexican vet), you don't want to give pain meds without proper diagnostics, or the adequan either, for that matter.
That said, on the use of pain medications like Tramadol, I don't think I would use them in combination with adequan and pred. This would probably have to be an approach using only either the adequan with the pred, or the Tramadol with the pred, probably not both with pred. Keep in mind that the Tramadol is only a pain medication, it will not have any effect on joints for the long term, but the adequan can.
If your NYC vet is telling you he would approve of the use of adequan with prednisone, you have to find out if the doses for both should be lowered, what doses he suggests for both, so you can relay that to your Mexican vet. If he approves the adequan, ask if he suggests ceasing the Cosequin.
There isn't enough evidence or data available on stem cell transplants etc in cats and dogs, this is going to take years to research, test, approve.
I don't know why your Mexican vet is requiring sedation to take xrays, this is so totally unnecessary! Unless Benny is fractious or just won't lay still on an xray table for a few moments, there's no need for sedation, and you never want to risk a cat with a known health condition with sedation unless it's absolutely necessary.
What does your NYC vet say about xrays? Does he feel you could get away with using adequan without first doing xrays?
Important! If you choose the adequan injections, please ask your NYC vet the following, first! :
1) Are there any contraindications of giving adequan injections when Benny is on prednisone and ursodial?
With any steroid meds (prednisone), adequan may be contraindicated. Ask the NYC vet if it's possible to use a low-dose of adequan since Benny is also on the prednisone.
Likewise, ask if the prednisone should ALSO be a lower dose if an adequan low-dose is used.
2) Is there any contraindications of giving adequan injections when Benny has a chronic liver condition?
I do know that liver and kidney enzyme levels can be changed when there is a liver or kidney condition already present, it's important you discuss this in detail with the vet.
Also ask if platelet function tests and blood clotting factor tests should be done during the use of adequan, or the use of adequan AND prednisone together.
3) Remind the vet about Benny's age.
I don't recommend pain medications (like tramadol) for long term use, unless absolutely necessary. With the absence of a physical exam and xray from your NYC vet (whom I'd prefer over your Mexican vet), you don't want to give pain meds without proper diagnostics, or the adequan either, for that matter.
That said, on the use of pain medications like Tramadol, I don't think I would use them in combination with adequan and pred. This would probably have to be an approach using only either the adequan with the pred, or the Tramadol with the pred, probably not both with pred. Keep in mind that the Tramadol is only a pain medication, it will not have any effect on joints for the long term, but the adequan can.
If your NYC vet is telling you he would approve of the use of adequan with prednisone, you have to find out if the doses for both should be lowered, what doses he suggests for both, so you can relay that to your Mexican vet. If he approves the adequan, ask if he suggests ceasing the Cosequin.
There isn't enough evidence or data available on stem cell transplants etc in cats and dogs, this is going to take years to research, test, approve.
I don't know why your Mexican vet is requiring sedation to take xrays, this is so totally unnecessary! Unless Benny is fractious or just won't lay still on an xray table for a few moments, there's no need for sedation, and you never want to risk a cat with a known health condition with sedation unless it's absolutely necessary.
What does your NYC vet say about xrays? Does he feel you could get away with using adequan without first doing xrays?
..........Traci
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christymexico
- Posts: 97
- Joined: Mon Feb 27, 2012 1:21 am
- Location: mexico
Re: Cat liver issues
Hi..totally new topic..on sunday i noticed my 18 month old cat rosa breathing heavy. Took her in monday morn. Xrays showed fluids. Removed on 6 th sticking attemp 10 ml of reddish fluid from one side only. Returned to vet today but was only able to get 3 ml from same side.
He gave cortisone clindamacine and a diuretic
Today he should have tested the fluid but i have heard nothing yet..he sent a photo of cytosis microcopic.. said cells looked inflammed and he thought is fip.
The fiv test was neg
Her bloods were normal except wbc were 19.1 with a norm of 18.9
Grans 15"4 with 2"5 to 12"5
81%
She was lethargic until fluid removal..she came home ate some..today she has eaten well is drinking water tonight..but super lethargic stil..
I have been in contact with dr putter in nyc..
Your thoughts?
Thanks christy
I want to run a chemical profile and do another set of xrays..im not sure if he missed the fluid pocket today or it truly is gone..he does not use butterfly..only syringe and yday it was filled ..wish he had been able to get more..he had not removed any and sent us home..i wemt back and asked him to try again yday, thats how we got the 10, after 4 tries with a 21 gauge needle.
He gave cortisone clindamacine and a diuretic
Today he should have tested the fluid but i have heard nothing yet..he sent a photo of cytosis microcopic.. said cells looked inflammed and he thought is fip.
The fiv test was neg
Her bloods were normal except wbc were 19.1 with a norm of 18.9
Grans 15"4 with 2"5 to 12"5
81%
She was lethargic until fluid removal..she came home ate some..today she has eaten well is drinking water tonight..but super lethargic stil..
I have been in contact with dr putter in nyc..
Your thoughts?
Thanks christy
I want to run a chemical profile and do another set of xrays..im not sure if he missed the fluid pocket today or it truly is gone..he does not use butterfly..only syringe and yday it was filled ..wish he had been able to get more..he had not removed any and sent us home..i wemt back and asked him to try again yday, thats how we got the 10, after 4 tries with a 21 gauge needle.
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christymexico
- Posts: 97
- Joined: Mon Feb 27, 2012 1:21 am
- Location: mexico
Re: Cat liver issues
Plueral effusion..sorry..diagnosis
Re: Cat liver issues
Ask your NYC vet about chylothorax, it's a bacterial infection that usually originates from the intestine (intestinal infection that can travel to the abdomen and/or to the chest cavity). Treating it is imperative at the onset, so ask NYC vet about proper meds (specific antibiotics and possibly a tetracycline-class drug, but you must defer to your vet about that because I'm not sure a tetracycline drug would be appropriate or not). Draining the fluid at necessary intervals with a butterfly catheter would be best (every day usually, since fluids accumulate quickly), I don't understand why your Mexico vet doesn't use a butterfly catheter, it's safer than a syringe with needle - the butterfly catheter is actually attached to the line and syringe, as you know. The blood could have been internal, or due to chest wall insertion in the wrong place, or could be from a rupture somewhere in the abdominal or chest cavity - I would strongly suggest you get in contact with your NYC vet RIGHT NOW (TODAY!) for advice on how to proceed, advice on the butterfly catheter and insertion technique, and medications that would be appropriate in this case. Please tell him everything your Mexican vet has thus far told you and what he's thus far done, etc. You might also be prepared for an occasional visit to the vet hospital for oxygen therapy for Rosa if she is having difficulty breathing.
The fluid already drawn could have been sent off for testing at a lab to use a PCR for FIP - I would certainly NOT assume FIP without a proper titer done (outside lab), and the vet's ability to interpret the results, and based on all of Rosa's symptoms. FIP is progressive, in that, once an FIP-cat is ill, they usually progress and do not get better. Also, she would most likely have been exhibiting other signs of illness before chest fluid was present, like lethargy, vomiting, possibly diarrhea, inappetance, weight loss, weakness, etc. Please, DO NOT assume FIP without proper titer testing, and talk to your NYC vet IMMEDIATELY for how to proceed for treating potential chylothorax at this point.
It might be necessary to keep draining the fluid each day, as it can accumulate hourly or daily, and draining the fluid allows to take pressure off the lungs so she can breathe easier - again, talk to the NYC vet promptly for advice, how to proceed, and medications.
Hang in there, we're thinking of and keeping Rosa in our thoughts and prayers for a recovery!
The fluid already drawn could have been sent off for testing at a lab to use a PCR for FIP - I would certainly NOT assume FIP without a proper titer done (outside lab), and the vet's ability to interpret the results, and based on all of Rosa's symptoms. FIP is progressive, in that, once an FIP-cat is ill, they usually progress and do not get better. Also, she would most likely have been exhibiting other signs of illness before chest fluid was present, like lethargy, vomiting, possibly diarrhea, inappetance, weight loss, weakness, etc. Please, DO NOT assume FIP without proper titer testing, and talk to your NYC vet IMMEDIATELY for how to proceed for treating potential chylothorax at this point.
It might be necessary to keep draining the fluid each day, as it can accumulate hourly or daily, and draining the fluid allows to take pressure off the lungs so she can breathe easier - again, talk to the NYC vet promptly for advice, how to proceed, and medications.
Hang in there, we're thinking of and keeping Rosa in our thoughts and prayers for a recovery!
..........Traci
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christymexico
- Posts: 97
- Joined: Mon Feb 27, 2012 1:21 am
- Location: mexico
Re: Cat liver issues
Yes, that was nyc vets first suggestion..he asked if liquid was opaque..i found a human patholgy lab and they are doing fluid anaylysis now and a bacteria gram specific test.
She has not vomited..it was sudden onset..eating playing fine..
She is on clindamayacine and cortisol daily for 3 days
I will xray again manana for fluid.
He is the best dr i have here in mexico, i will go and buy him a butterfly, he prefers to use a needle but larry explained to me how to do it with a butterfly ..this vet stuck her 3 times before he found the liquid..he doesnt know how to find by tapping..
She is breathing good as of today, eating and playaing. I asked to bring her to nyc but larry said wait on pathology results.i dont know what else to do..
Or how to know if she has more fluid.
Thanks for all. Again.
Christy
She has not vomited..it was sudden onset..eating playing fine..
She is on clindamayacine and cortisol daily for 3 days
I will xray again manana for fluid.
He is the best dr i have here in mexico, i will go and buy him a butterfly, he prefers to use a needle but larry explained to me how to do it with a butterfly ..this vet stuck her 3 times before he found the liquid..he doesnt know how to find by tapping..
She is breathing good as of today, eating and playaing. I asked to bring her to nyc but larry said wait on pathology results.i dont know what else to do..
Or how to know if she has more fluid.
Thanks for all. Again.
Christy
Re: Cat liver issues
The fluid is usually detectable by her breathing, as in, getting distressed, short, gaspy breaths, or wheezing, unable to get comfortable - the chest or abdomen will be distended, larger and feel "doughy".
When do you expect the results of the fluid pathology? If it is only a couple days, and if you have the means, I would stay in constant contact with your NYC vet - if she is having fluid buildup on a daily basis, is having trouble breathing at some point each day, you really don't want to risk travelling.
Did your NYC vet agree with the clindamycin and cortisol? The pathology on the fluid will most likely tell which antibiotic would be most appropriate.
The butterfly catheter/needle insertion is tricky, it must be behind or between a rib, must be able to puncture the chest or abdominal wall in order to get to the fluid, but if done incorrectly, this can be extremely painful, as well as introduce injury and increase bacterial infection. The Mexico vet has probably done this before, but repeated attempts indicate he needs to be extremely careful, and be knowledgeable about a fluid tap. Hopefully, the clindamycin and diuretic are working, helping.
When do you expect the results of the fluid pathology? If it is only a couple days, and if you have the means, I would stay in constant contact with your NYC vet - if she is having fluid buildup on a daily basis, is having trouble breathing at some point each day, you really don't want to risk travelling.
Did your NYC vet agree with the clindamycin and cortisol? The pathology on the fluid will most likely tell which antibiotic would be most appropriate.
The butterfly catheter/needle insertion is tricky, it must be behind or between a rib, must be able to puncture the chest or abdominal wall in order to get to the fluid, but if done incorrectly, this can be extremely painful, as well as introduce injury and increase bacterial infection. The Mexico vet has probably done this before, but repeated attempts indicate he needs to be extremely careful, and be knowledgeable about a fluid tap. Hopefully, the clindamycin and diuretic are working, helping.
..........Traci
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christymexico
- Posts: 97
- Joined: Mon Feb 27, 2012 1:21 am
- Location: mexico
Re: Cat liver issues
No, larry did not approve meds..he is aware but suprised that mex vet would give without pathology results.
Breathing is fine now, just lazy.
Results return tomorrow by 5 pm. Bact gram takes 3 days
I went and got 23 gauge butterflies. All they had. I got 10 plus a 10 ml syringe and fluid pack just to have in case..
Mex vet said his cytology was not cancer only inflamed cells.
I can only do fluid analysis at human clinic. Will not do cytology. I dont know why.
I am speaking with larry every couple hours.
She is eating and drinking and using bathroom fine.
No diareah, normal feces.
I am watching her like crazy but will return manana for xrays of chest to check fluid buildup, if any.
Thanks
Christy
Breathing is fine now, just lazy.
Results return tomorrow by 5 pm. Bact gram takes 3 days
I went and got 23 gauge butterflies. All they had. I got 10 plus a 10 ml syringe and fluid pack just to have in case..
Mex vet said his cytology was not cancer only inflamed cells.
I can only do fluid analysis at human clinic. Will not do cytology. I dont know why.
I am speaking with larry every couple hours.
She is eating and drinking and using bathroom fine.
No diareah, normal feces.
I am watching her like crazy but will return manana for xrays of chest to check fluid buildup, if any.
Thanks
Christy
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christymexico
- Posts: 97
- Joined: Mon Feb 27, 2012 1:21 am
- Location: mexico
Re: Cat liver issues
He only gave her one shot of the diuretic on monday..should i ask for more..tomorrow also i will do chemical blood profile..he was unable to get enough blood.
I have photo of cytology i can send you..it shows the fluid cells he removed very clearly.
I have photo of cytology i can send you..it shows the fluid cells he removed very clearly.