Using medication for a fearful dog
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oconnorjoy
- Posts: 315
- Joined: Thu May 01, 2003 12:06 pm
- Location: Canada
Using medication for a fearful dog
We have had our Angus for a little over 2 months now. He has come a long way in so many ways...but is still very fearful. My vets says he has post tramatic stress syndrome...and that we should consider medication if he doesn't show more improvement by the next time we go in for a checkup. I am very leary of drugging him to control fear. He is doing so much better with hubby and I for the most part. He will give me kisses on request when I sit in his den with him. You can tell that he wants to trust us so much. He is much happier than he was, and is venturing out of his safe spot to carefully walk around the house to find me. The biggest problem is getting him to go in and out the door....it takes him a few times of running (in fear) around the room, then dashing outside/inside...like Flash. I have to make sure and have Pebbles in my arms when he does this because he will run her over in his fear. I have been putting his harness and leash on him daily and walking him around the house as he will tolerate to get him used to it. I have tried taking him out the door using this but no go...he stresses so badly that I am afraid he will hurt himself. For now, we are just opening the door, picking up Pebbles and encouraging him to go out or come in. He is so proud when he makes it back in to his spot and I tell him how brave he is...that always gets a big smile from him. I am so glad he is a part of our lives. I welcome any suggestions on how to make his transition easier for him.
Re: Using medication for a fearful dog
This is a tough one, especially given his past.
Is he neutered yet?
I'm no expert, but I would maybe suggest a sheltie rescue organization, locally if possible, and maybe find out if they have a behavioral trainer. You can just explain the situation (via phone), and get tips, sometimes tips are all you need (rather than full-fledged training programs). Most rescuers have a good deal of experience and can give you some pointers you may not have thought of yet. I think it's worth a try.
I am a bit surprised he's still a little fearful, since he's so young, but it isn't unusual given his upbringing before you adopted him. Have you considered looking into clicker-training, or something to the affect of getting him to associate the door with something pleasant and something to look forward to (his walks)? For Angus in particular, I don't know what pleasant means to him, but that might be something to focus on as far as going to, in and out the door. Is he fearful of the door itself, or what is outside? Noise? Traffic? Neighborhood dogs? I don't think there's necessarily anything wrong with how you're approaching the door right now, it may just take some time, but finding a compromise that is pleasing to him is what will allow him to be less fearful as time goes by. Have you tried a different door in the house? Back door vs front door? Garage door to the backyard? Have you tried tossing his favorite toys in the yard by an open door and encouring him to play, play fetch, interact? (as long as your yard is safe, fenced etc).
Is he neutered yet?
I'm no expert, but I would maybe suggest a sheltie rescue organization, locally if possible, and maybe find out if they have a behavioral trainer. You can just explain the situation (via phone), and get tips, sometimes tips are all you need (rather than full-fledged training programs). Most rescuers have a good deal of experience and can give you some pointers you may not have thought of yet. I think it's worth a try.
I am a bit surprised he's still a little fearful, since he's so young, but it isn't unusual given his upbringing before you adopted him. Have you considered looking into clicker-training, or something to the affect of getting him to associate the door with something pleasant and something to look forward to (his walks)? For Angus in particular, I don't know what pleasant means to him, but that might be something to focus on as far as going to, in and out the door. Is he fearful of the door itself, or what is outside? Noise? Traffic? Neighborhood dogs? I don't think there's necessarily anything wrong with how you're approaching the door right now, it may just take some time, but finding a compromise that is pleasing to him is what will allow him to be less fearful as time goes by. Have you tried a different door in the house? Back door vs front door? Garage door to the backyard? Have you tried tossing his favorite toys in the yard by an open door and encouring him to play, play fetch, interact? (as long as your yard is safe, fenced etc).
..........Traci
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oconnorjoy
- Posts: 315
- Joined: Thu May 01, 2003 12:06 pm
- Location: Canada
Re: Using medication for a fearful dog
Hi Traci
Angus is not neutered yet...we are waiting for him to become a bit less fearful. He will be done in the next few months. Thanks for the suggestion to call our local sheltie rescue. There is one in Calgary that I will contact for suggestions.
Angus seems to be afraid of the outdoors as well as the door. He is a bit OCD outside....he runs in circles until he calms down. He has a path worn in the grass. We sit outside with him when he is outside...he calms down faster if we do. We only use the bck door as it leads to a fenced yard. We do not take him out of the yard yet unless he is going to the vet...and that is in a travel crate. He is too high risk for bolting.
But the positives are definitly outweighting the struggles....I love when he *beep* his head and listens to me talk to him, how he tugs at the blanket I am knitting him when I tell him it's his, how he seems to love having his own stuff, how he gets so excited when his kitty comes into his den to see him, and how gentle he is with his kisses
Angus is not neutered yet...we are waiting for him to become a bit less fearful. He will be done in the next few months. Thanks for the suggestion to call our local sheltie rescue. There is one in Calgary that I will contact for suggestions.
Angus seems to be afraid of the outdoors as well as the door. He is a bit OCD outside....he runs in circles until he calms down. He has a path worn in the grass. We sit outside with him when he is outside...he calms down faster if we do. We only use the bck door as it leads to a fenced yard. We do not take him out of the yard yet unless he is going to the vet...and that is in a travel crate. He is too high risk for bolting.
But the positives are definitly outweighting the struggles....I love when he *beep* his head and listens to me talk to him, how he tugs at the blanket I am knitting him when I tell him it's his, how he seems to love having his own stuff, how he gets so excited when his kitty comes into his den to see him, and how gentle he is with his kisses
Re: Using medication for a fearful dog
Oh my, you've painted such a wonderful, dear picture of him!!! What a little sweetheart!
Again, Joy, I'm no expert, but if this were me, I think I would focus mostly on some activity, some toy, some thing that he wants to look forward to, feels safe with when going outdoors.
How much do you know of his background, do you know if his kennels were outdoors, unsheltered, etc? If so, this may be telling, in that, he may be fearful of the elements, or people outside who....well, you know, BYB and all that, it wouldn't be a pretty picture if he was raised in an outdoor kennel, especially if exposed to the elements, cramped quarters, no attention or even basic care. Conversely, if he was raised indoors in a not-so-great environment, he could be fearful of the yard because he may not have had opportunities to run and play and explore, etc. If this is the case, then the sheltie rescue folks could probably give you a LOT of tips to help transition him where he feels less fearful of going outside. Remember, these are people who (some) do this for a living, some have years of experience with BYB dogs, and of course, shelties. If you're willing, maybe see if you can get one of the sheltie rescue folks to come for a short visit, and actually observe Angus as you attempt to get him to go to the door and then the yard, chances are they will be able to provide some knowledge and tips to help him overcome some of his fears.
If you have room in your garage, maybe use it as a starting point of entry, make it interesting or fun or whatever you can to help him feel comfortable around the garage door to the yard first, then slowly encourage going out the door. Even short minutes at a time are big steps.
If he's fearful of people, though, you might want to warn any sheltie rescue person ahead of time, so you can prepare Angus before they come to your house. I'm not saying you have to do this, it's just an option. Hopefully they won't charge you for doing this, short of maybe a donation for gas money or something, but it might be something very worthwhile to look into.
Again, Joy, I'm no expert, but if this were me, I think I would focus mostly on some activity, some toy, some thing that he wants to look forward to, feels safe with when going outdoors.
How much do you know of his background, do you know if his kennels were outdoors, unsheltered, etc? If so, this may be telling, in that, he may be fearful of the elements, or people outside who....well, you know, BYB and all that, it wouldn't be a pretty picture if he was raised in an outdoor kennel, especially if exposed to the elements, cramped quarters, no attention or even basic care. Conversely, if he was raised indoors in a not-so-great environment, he could be fearful of the yard because he may not have had opportunities to run and play and explore, etc. If this is the case, then the sheltie rescue folks could probably give you a LOT of tips to help transition him where he feels less fearful of going outside. Remember, these are people who (some) do this for a living, some have years of experience with BYB dogs, and of course, shelties. If you're willing, maybe see if you can get one of the sheltie rescue folks to come for a short visit, and actually observe Angus as you attempt to get him to go to the door and then the yard, chances are they will be able to provide some knowledge and tips to help him overcome some of his fears.
If you have room in your garage, maybe use it as a starting point of entry, make it interesting or fun or whatever you can to help him feel comfortable around the garage door to the yard first, then slowly encourage going out the door. Even short minutes at a time are big steps.
If he's fearful of people, though, you might want to warn any sheltie rescue person ahead of time, so you can prepare Angus before they come to your house. I'm not saying you have to do this, it's just an option. Hopefully they won't charge you for doing this, short of maybe a donation for gas money or something, but it might be something very worthwhile to look into.
..........Traci
Re: Using medication for a fearful dog
Shelties do tend to be uncomfortable in new surroundings and are unhappy with changes (like putting up Christmas trees or rearranging the furniture), but they usually adjust fairly quickly, so I'm a bit surprised he is still so upset. I have no idea how bad he had it before you got him, but it's more than obvious taht he definitely wasn't cared for properly or properly socialized. I've had 6 shelties over the years, and I do wish I had some advice for you, but I'm afraid all I can offer is pretty much what Traci said. Try to get him to associate going outside with something you know he likes (a favorite toy, a treat, etc along with lots of love and praise. Does he like to play ball? That's a great game to play outside if he likes it. I've had 2 shelties who loved it, 2 who could take it or leave it (and would not bring the ball back to me - they made me fetch), and 2 who couldn't care less and weren't even slightly interested.
"A dog is the only thing on earth that loves you more than he loves himself." ~ Josh Billings.
Re: Using medication for a fearful dog
I had to laugh at your first sentence, Karen, LOL.
I was hoping you'd weigh in since you are the sheltie girl here, it is just so hard for the little guys when they come from a bad environment.
Joy, again, think about giving the sheltie rescue people a call if you feel comfortable with that, maybe just some tips over the phone would help.
I was hoping you'd weigh in since you are the sheltie girl here, it is just so hard for the little guys when they come from a bad environment.
Joy, again, think about giving the sheltie rescue people a call if you feel comfortable with that, maybe just some tips over the phone would help.
..........Traci
It is funny when you think about it, isn't it, but it's so typical of the breed, and I think many others in the herding group. I have absolutely no idea what any of mine would do if they saw a flock of sheep, but every one I've had has had some herding characteristics - they usually love to chase (herd), but dislike being chased (herded). They are very protective of their people and other animals in the house (their flock) and must watch over them. If everyone in the family can be seen from one spot - that will be where you'll find the sheltie. If they can't be seen from one spot, they will walk back and forth between the rooms to check on everyone (hence their reputation as pacers). And the behavior that applies here is to watch out for danger (some herding breeds, like GSDs, the Belgian malenois, Canaan dogs, etc were bred not only to herd, but also to protect the flock by attacking any preditor (like a wolf). Shelties, and most of the other collie-type dogs were bred to watch and alert the shepherd of any danger - so they are very vigilant and notice all changes in their homes and yards and alert on these changes, which can be either visual or auditory changes, by barking, hence their reputation as barkers (or politely said - they are very vocal). So, they are definitely concerned when they perceive any change (which could mean from being inside to going outside). Joy, I do have one other suggestion, try to make sure there are no changes in the outdoor environment if you can prevent them. If you have outdoor furniture, make sure all the chairs are always in the same place when you let Angus out (pushed up under the table, stacked, whatever you prefer). If you have a collapsible umbrella on the table, or one of those retractable awnings, keep them in the same position. The same with any potted plants - don't move the pots or add any new ones until he becomes more comfortable outside. And, along this same line, if you aren't going out with him so he doesn't have to worry where you are, it might be a good idea to do that. Since, it's normal for shelties to watch over everyone, if someone is left in the house and he can no longer see that person, it could raise his level of anxiety because he can't perform the job he was bred to perform. So, my suggestion to check this out is to have all the people and animals go out with him one time. If he continues to show the same amount of anxiety, then leaving people (or other animals) in the house isn't what's bothering him. If he demonstrates less anxiety, then at least you'll know why he's so anxious and you can work on getting him comfortable to be away from them long enough to go outside.
"A dog is the only thing on earth that loves you more than he loves himself." ~ Josh Billings.
I would also assume the leaves are changing (or may have already changed and fallen) since you're in Canada. Falling leaves, the color change, piles of leaves that have been raked up could all be visual changes to the environment that disturb Angus. If you used to have songbirds in the yard and he could hear them singing, but they've already left and migrated south, that will be an auditory change, as would any neighbor using a leaf blower. These are all things you're used to, but he isn't. He will probably be equally anxious with the first snowfall, flowers in the Spring, etc. As these things become part of his memory, he should show less anxiety, but he may continue to show some everytime there is a definite or dramatic change (like going from brown to all white with a snowfall).
"A dog is the only thing on earth that loves you more than he loves himself." ~ Josh Billings.
k9Karen wrote:It is funny when you think about it, isn't it, but it's so typical of the breed, and I think many others in the herding group. I have absolutely no idea what any of mine would do if they saw a flock of sheep, but every one I've had has had some herding characteristics - they usually love to chase (herd), but dislike being chased (herded). They are very protective of their people and other animals in the house (their flock) and must watch over them. If everyone in the family can be seen from one spot - that will be where you'll find the sheltie. If they can't be seen from one spot, they will walk back and forth between the rooms to check on everyone (hence their reputation as pacers). And the behavior that applies here is to watch out for danger (some herding breeds, like GSDs, the Belgian malenois, Canaan dogs, etc where bred not only to herd, but also to protect the flock by attacking any preditor (like a wolf). Shelties, and most of the other collie-type dogs were bred to watch and alert the shepherd of any danger - so they are very vigilant and notice all changes in their homes and yards and alert on these changes, which can be either visual or auditory changes, by barking, hence their reputation as barkers (or politely said - they are very vocal). So, they are definitely concerned when they perceive any change (which could mean from being inside to going outside). Joy, I do have one other suggestion, try to make sure there are no changes in the outdoor environment if you can prevent them. If you have outdoor furniture, make sure all the chairs are always in the same place when you let Angus out (pushed up under the table, stacked, whatever you prefer). If you have a collapsible umbrella on the table, or one of those retractable awnings, keep them in the same position. The same with any potted plants - don't move the pots or add any new ones until he becomes more comfortable outside. And, along this same line, if you aren't going out with him so he doesn't have to worry where you are, it might be a good idea to do that. Since, it's normal for shelties to watch over everyone, if someone is left in the house and he can no longer see that person, it could raise his level of anxiety because he can't perform the job he was bred to perform. So, my suggestion to check this out is to have all the people and animals go out with him one time. If he continues to show the same amount of anxiety, then leaving people (or other animals) in the house isn't what's bothering him. If he demonstrates less anxiety, then at least you'll know why he's so anxious and you can work on getting him comfortable to be away from them long enough to go outside.
"A dog is the only thing on earth that loves you more than he loves himself." ~ Josh Billings.
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oconnorjoy
- Posts: 315
- Joined: Thu May 01, 2003 12:06 pm
- Location: Canada
Re: Using medication for a fearful dog
Thanks for the suggestions Traci and Karen. Angus is very much a sheltie when it comes to the traits. He wants to be close to his flock. You are right in that he likes for the whole family to come outside with him when he goes out. Hubby and I have found that he stops his circling faster and hangs with the other dogs if we are both out with him. I truely believe that it is not Angus' nature to be a fearful dog...he does not stress urinate, doesn't finch at the coffee grinder or vacuum (Buddy, my other sheltie, goes wild at those) Here is what I have been doing:
1. created and maintain a few safe spots in the house.
2. provide food and water in his preferred safe spot (I call it his den)
3. sit with him in his den multiple times throughout the day...he seems to really enjoy this
4. bring him up on the loveseat with me in the evening...he will cuddle sometimes, leave other times....I am trying to show him that he has a choice to stay or leave
5. I put his harness and leash on him a few times during the day and do a walkaround....am seeing great improvements from when we started...at first he refused to move with the leash on...now he loves going up and down the stairs (we live in a bi-level) He has even started going downstairs on his own lately! He still panics if I put the leash on him in the yard...will give that a break for awhile and concentrate on indoor leash walking for now
6. am working on the basic commands...sit, stay, and most important...Leave it...lol
7. am trying something new with the door...am going to keep his harness on during the day and will click the leash on before he realizes I am going to be opening the door to let them out....I have him do a sit before I open the door, calmly take his leash off and tell him to go pee...so far he has done pretty good at going out the door without panicing too badly
8. have emailed our provincial sheltie rescue group for ideas
I have been told by a co-worker who works with rescue dogs that it can take 6mths to a year sometimes for our fearful guys to settle in...that is ok...we have the time
1. created and maintain a few safe spots in the house.
2. provide food and water in his preferred safe spot (I call it his den)
3. sit with him in his den multiple times throughout the day...he seems to really enjoy this
4. bring him up on the loveseat with me in the evening...he will cuddle sometimes, leave other times....I am trying to show him that he has a choice to stay or leave
5. I put his harness and leash on him a few times during the day and do a walkaround....am seeing great improvements from when we started...at first he refused to move with the leash on...now he loves going up and down the stairs (we live in a bi-level) He has even started going downstairs on his own lately! He still panics if I put the leash on him in the yard...will give that a break for awhile and concentrate on indoor leash walking for now
6. am working on the basic commands...sit, stay, and most important...Leave it...lol
7. am trying something new with the door...am going to keep his harness on during the day and will click the leash on before he realizes I am going to be opening the door to let them out....I have him do a sit before I open the door, calmly take his leash off and tell him to go pee...so far he has done pretty good at going out the door without panicing too badly
8. have emailed our provincial sheltie rescue group for ideas
I have been told by a co-worker who works with rescue dogs that it can take 6mths to a year sometimes for our fearful guys to settle in...that is ok...we have the time