Max's hair Update 1/26/14

[mamabear]

Max's ears are doing better. He is fussy and up to his old tricks again. He was scheduled today for a medicated bath with the groomer which he did go to. The groomer knows about his ears so was careful.

I noticed last week that max's fur was so poor. It was flaky and his hair was falling out but not in patches just lots of hair all over the place. Now I get that I have a long haired Shepard but he has quite the undercoat and well now that he is groomed I can see that he doesn't have much of an undercoat at all. There are scabs all over his body. Tiny tiny scabs, I'm afraid this was from me using the wire brush I have used on him for years. It's a specific type of wire brush for long haired dogs with undercoat. I also have an undercoat rake as well. I think that his hair is thin so I must have been scratching the actual skin when brushing him. I feel horrible. This is certainly not from the groomer, these are scabs in the places I was brushing. The flakiness is better but his skin was nice after the bath so I'm sure I'll see it poor again in a few days.

With his ears being better I'm gonig to ask the dr. what can be done about the allergies(if it truly is allerfies) and his skin. I am certainly doing to be changing brushes. I'll ask the groomer, he knows max's skin better than the vet, I'm sure he can recommend a brush that wont hurt him.

Oh he was so full of piss and vinegar today, I am so happy he is doing so well. all you can see in his ears right now is fur and his tattoo from the breeder. Clean ears means no feeling icky.

His hearing is still worrying me though. I called to him and even yelled to him and he didn't respond. He is stubborn, I give him that but I was able to get up behind him and grab him and he really jumped as though he had no clue I was there. If he sees me coming he runs, but I went behind him so he couldn't see me.

I can tell he feels vibration on the ground, when I stomp he feels it and looks up. I'll see if the dr. can do a test to check his hearing now that the yeast is gone..

[Traci]

It might be time to get bloodwork and a urinalysis done for Max - make sure he's not developing an immune problem (that might be affecting his skin, but doubtful if in otherwise good health - it's just good practice). If the scabs are numerous, affecting several parts of the body, a skin scrape and/or culture might be wise to rule out flea allergy, mites, etc.

If Max has scabs or any open abrasions, no matter how tiny, it might be wise not to use anything on his skin and coat until the vet has a better look at the bloodwork and urinalysis and better look at the skin. Don't know what the groomer is, or has used, but there might be ingredients Max is sensitive to (hint: anything "natural", herbal, botanical).

Likewise, are you giving treats, vitamins, supplements, etc, ..if you are, tell your vet what they are so he can rule out potential ingredient reactions.

Also, what are you feeding him? You can ask your vet for EFA supplements, but this may not specifically address the problem (if it's something else), and if the diet already contains EFA's, you don't want to supplement further.

Lastly, check sleeping/lounge areas, make sure you're not using carpet powder, flea powders, chemicals near his sleeping/lounge areas - rule out rubber/vinyl/plastic sensitivity if his bed contains these. Also, depending on the period when he was "off" and wasn't active, could also attribute poor grooming.

[mamabear]

It might be time to get bloodwork and a urinalysis done for Max - make sure he's not developing an immune problem (that might be affecting his skin, but doubtful if in otherwise good health - it's just good practice). If the scabs are numerous, affecting several parts of the body, a skin scrape and/or culture might be wise to rule out flea allergy, mites, etc.

[/b]I'll call to get him seen this week

If Max has scabs or any open abrasions, no matter how tiny, it might be wise not to use anything on his skin and coat until the vet has a better look at the bloodwork and urinalysis and better look at the skin. Don't know what the groomer is, or has used, but there might be ingredients Max is sensitive to (hint: anything "natural", herbal, botanical).

This was there before the groomer took him, I'm sure of it. I'll talk with groomer to see what it was though. Usually we just use human shampoo. I don't like the fancy smelly stuff and he doesn't use perfume. Just what ever scent is in the shampoo, nothing extra.

Likewise, are you giving treats, vitamins, supplements, etc, ..if you are, tell your vet what they are so he can rule out potential ingredient reactions.

Also, what are you feeding him? You can ask your vet for EFA supplements, but this may not specifically address the problem (if it's something else), and if the diet already contains EFA's, you don't want to supplement further.

Max is a raw meat eater. He only eats chicken, the occasional piece of steak scraps or venison scraps, this is not out of the oridinary for him and we know he isn't allergic. He is allergic to turkey so he hasn't had that since he was a pup when we found out. He gets raw veggies that are washed and chopped up in the processesor and gets fish oil/flax oil and brewers yeast. We call it goop, it changes every week with a different batch because we change up the veggies to make sure he has his vitamins from that. and the vet knows this.

Lastly, check sleeping/lounge areas, make sure you're not using carpet powder, flea powders, chemicals near his sleeping/lounge areas - rule out rubber/vinyl/plastic sensitivity if his bed contains these. Also, depending on the period when he was "off" and wasn't active, could also attribute poor grooming.


we use nothing in the house for pests, we live on a few acres and we know that bugs come in and we take them out by hand or in something. We have 4 kids and don't use pestacides in the house. His cage is a plastic cage he has had since he was a pup, it's a great dane cage so he grew into it. We have no carpeting either, again it's farm land I wasn't going to be vacuuming every day. We don't have fleas near our house so we don't use any flea stuff. Max goes to and from vet's office and the groomers and we never had a problem with fleas so we don't want to use anything if we don't have to.
My husband took him out and Max didn't listen at all unless he was facing my husband. I told him this has been going on gradually for a while adn I thought it was stubborness but i really feel it's deafness. Hubby thinks it might be from the infection but I can't believe that that infection from yeast caused this. His ears were clear prior to several weeks ago so the infection was recent. but maybe it was the cause. I just know max wasn't listening way before that so maybe he is just getting older. I will make sure vet can at least give us something about the hearing. Max is just so playful now that his ears are no longer itchy. Either way I'll get him in this week to make sure he's ok rather be safe than sorry.

[mamabear]

Tomorrow I'll be taking him in for open office hours. I'll ask the vet to check inside the canal and see if he has something to test his hearing. We have a few acres and have started to walk him on a leash from now on because we can not trust that he will be safe. If he runs towards a deer or coyote he wont hear us say stop so leash from now on it is.

Without realizing it as we have always given him a command we have given a hand signal as well. So if he is looking at us and we do the hand signal he does do what he is told. He is barking so much and we can't stop him, he seems to be so scared and not know what to do. He is happy and playful but you can tell he can't hear himself so he is exccesivily barking. Im hoping the vet has some tips for us. Max seems to be fine at night and sleeping very soundly now since he can't hear anything. He's never been one to fuss at night so that helps out.

[mamabear]

Here are results:

WBC 15.2K/ul Range: 5.7-16.3
RBC 6.91M/ul Range: 5.5-8.5
HGB 17.0 g/dl Range: 12-18
HCT 49.4% Range: 37-55
MCV 75 fL Range: 60-77
MCH 24.6 pg Range 19.5-26.0
MCHC 34.4 g/dL Range: 32-36
NRBC DNR/100WBC Range: 0-2
Neutrophil Seg 58% Range: 60-77 (low)
Neutrophil Band DNR% Range: 0-3
Lymphocytes 17% Range: 12-30
Monocytes 10% Range: 3-10
Eosinophil 15% Range: 2-10 (high)
Basophil 0% Range: 0-1
Metomyelocytes DNR%
Myelocyte DNR%
Unclassified DNR
Auto Platelet 169K/uL Range: 164-510

There are a few more that say DNR

Slide reviewed microscopically. No parasites seen

ABSOLUTE Neutr 8816/uL Range: 3000-11500
ABSOLUTE Neutro DNR/uL Range 0-300
ABSOLUTE Lymph 2584 Range: 1000-4800
ABSOLUTE Mococ 1520/Ul Range: 150-1350 (high)
ABSOLUTE EOSINO 2280/uL Range: 100-1250 (high)
ABSOLUTE BASOP 0% Range: 0-100
Everything else said DNR


Chem 27
ALK PHOSPHATAS 92 U/L Range: 10-150
ALT (sgpt) 487 u/l Range: 5-107 (high)
AST (SGOT_ 158 U/L Range: 5-55 (high)
CK 146 U/L Range: 10-200
GGT 0 U/L Range: 0-14
Amylase 1009 U/L Range: 450-1240
Lipase 180 U/L Range: 100-750
Albumin 3.0 g/dL Rnage: 2.5-4.0
Total Protien 7.5 g/dL Range: 5.1 -7.8
Globulin 4.5 g?dl Range: 2.1-4.5
Total Bilirubin 0.1 mg/dl Range: 0.0-0.4
Direct Bilirubin 0.1 mg/dl Range: 0.0-0.2
BUN 32 mg/dl Rnage: 7-27 (high)
Creatinine .8 mg/dl Range: .4-1.8
Cholesterol 251 mg/dl Range: 112-328
Glucose 78mg/dl Range: 60-125
Calcium 10.5mg/dl Range: 8.2-12.4
Phosphorus 4.3 mg/dl Range: 2.1-6.3
TCO2 (bicarbonate) 19 mEq/l Range: 17-24
Chloride 110 meq/l Range: 105-115
Potassium 4.8 meq/l Range: 4.0-5.6
Sodium 145 meq/l Range: 141-156
A/g Ratio .7 Range: .6-1.6
B/C ratio 40.0 Range: (there is nothing written in the range section)
Indirect Bilirubin 0.0 mg/dl Range: 0-0.3
NA/K ratio 30 Range: 27-40


The Vet is saying that the kidney issue could be due to the high protien diet (raw meat).

The liver she said there could be something going on, or it's older age.

The white blood cells and other stuff she said it could be due to allergies or worms. She wants to worm him but said nothing about allergies and what to do about them or how to find out if it's seasonal which is what we feel is giong on.

I have fecals done on both of my dogs yearly, they don't leave the property except to go to vet. Now I get that he can get worms from wild animals out here but I dont see anything in his stools when I check them.
I feel this is more allergy related but she isn't going that route.

Also he just had a bad ear infection wouldn't his liver and wbc counts be high due to infection?

I have a call in to her again to call me back because I was going to pick up the wormining medicine but got mad because I still want to understand what to do for allergies for him. Grrrrrrrr!

[Marty]

I know Traci will address the blood test results for you, but I just want to tell you that Java has skin problems also. I felt it was allergies also, but it took me forever to get my Vet onboard with this. I think it is because allergies are so difficult to identify and treat that they want to rule out any other possibilities first...like fleas, nutrition, whatever. It can also get very expensive, which could be another reason for the delay.

[Traci]

ALK PHOSPHATAS 92 U/L Range: 10-150 (high)

Did you do a typo? If not a typo, and it's accurate, I don't see where it is "high". However, if it IS a typo and the level IS abnormally high, this should be watched.

The ALT can rise with stress at the time of the blood draw. Usually, if there were a serious liver problem, several other markers would be elevated as well, but they aren't. If anorexia, dehydration, vomiting, diarrhea, etc aren't present, it may not be significant to worry about at this point. But......

If both the ALT and AST remain consistently high next time, maybe investigate further. I don't know if your vet recommended repeat bloodwork, but it might be something you should talk to her about. She can do a liver profile (breaking it down so that you don't have to test for all of the other enzymes).

Likewise, if the ALKP, ALT, and AST remain consistently high on subsequent bloodwork, it would be wise to investigate further.

The Creatinine is fine, and it usually elevates before the BUN in kidney disease, but I'm alittle stumped on the BUN elevation. Was a urinalysis also done to see if there's protein in the urine?

In the CBC, the monocytes and eosinophils are usually indicative of inflammation or allergic response. Inflammation could be caused by infection in this case - allergic could mean anything, from environmental exposure to offenders, to a histamine-type response to something. The eosinophils are what your vet may have correlated to parasites, so coupled with the monocytes, yes, she has good reason to be concerned about worming. It won't hurt Max to deworm him, so might as well do it.

Based on the current results, I would heed your vet's advice - deworm Max now, then discuss how to treat potential allergies. If you think it's seasonal, then supplementing EFA's, proper use of a canine hypoallergenic shampoo or skin conditioner (ask vet what she recommends) might help, and evaluate the diet for potential offenders (bacteria in the meat, evaluate other ingredients for nutritional adequacy, as well as any supplements you add - do you feed kibble at all?) - I don't know how you can limit exposure to the outdoors, but try not to use any lawn/garden products unless absolutely necessary. I realize of course, you can't stop pollens, wind, debris and allergen offenders outside, but a process of elimination would be difficult if not impossible, so you would treat the symptoms (skin and coat, proper diet, adequate supplementation, deworming, and followup bloodwork to determine if something else is going on undetected with organ function).

Did she re-evaluate Max's ears? Is treatment working?

[mamabear]

ALK PHOSPHATAS 92 U/L Range: 10-150 (high)

I am sorry, yes that was a typo. I didn't mean to put the high there.

Did you do a typo? If not a typo, and it's accurate, I don't see where it is "high". However, if it IS a typo and the level IS abnormally high, this should be watched.

The ALT can rise with stress at the time of the blood draw. Usually, if there were a serious liver problem, several other markers would be elevated as well, but they aren't. If anorexia, dehydration, vomiting, diarrhea, etc aren't present, it may not be significant to worry about at this point. But......
She tried to get blood from his back leg, failed! Then I help his leg and she took from it but she wasn't fast enough and well max didn't hold well. Then she said let her tech hold the dog, I said sure and this time she was faster and as we help him he didn't move at all this time and well I guess it was stressful for him

If both the ALT and AST remain consistently high next time, maybe investigate further. I don't know if your vet recommended repeat bloodwork, but it might be something you should talk to her about. She can do a liver profile (breaking it down so that you don't have to test for all of the other enzymes).


Likewise, if the ALKP, ALT, and AST remain consistently high on subsequent bloodwork, it would be wise to investigate further.

The Creatinine is fine, and it usually elevates before the BUN in kidney disease, but I'm alittle stumped on the BUN elevation. Was a urinalysis also done to see if there's protein in the urine?

no UA was done
She did say to do a repeat blood and I agree with that
I have heard that he should have fasted as well and he had eaten an hour before he got there. I didn't know she would do bloodwork and he was hungry so I fed him


In the CBC, the monocytes and eosinophils are usually indicative of inflammation or allergic response. Inflammation could be caused by infection in this case - allergic could mean anything, from environmental exposure to offenders, to a histamine-type response to something. The eosinophils are what your vet may have correlated to parasites, so coupled with the monocytes, yes, she has good reason to be concerned about worming. It won't hurt Max to deworm him, so might as well do it.

Based on the current results, I would heed your vet's advice - deworm Max now, then discuss how to treat potential allergies. If you think it's seasonal, then supplementing EFA's, proper use of a canine hypoallergenic shampoo or skin conditioner (ask vet what she recommends) might help, and evaluate the diet for potential offenders (bacteria in the meat, evaluate other ingredients for nutritional adequacy, as well as any supplements you add - do you feed kibble at all?) - I don't know how you can limit exposure to the outdoors, but try not to use any lawn/garden products unless absolutely necessary. I realize of course, you can't stop pollens, wind, debris and allergen offenders outside, but a process of elimination would be difficult if not impossible, so you would treat the symptoms (skin and coat, proper diet, adequate supplementation, deworming, and followup bloodwork to determine if something else is going on undetected with organ function).

Did she re-evaluate Max's ears? Is treatment working?
She did check the ears and he was so good for her, I was so proud of him. His ears are great the treatment worked. Clean and the only thing you can see is his tatoo, no yucky stuff at all

I didn't get a call back tonight like I had hoped.
Max has been on kibble in the past and just recently when he went to kennel for his stay there. He has gone from kibble to raw several times.
I am going to tweek his diet and add a few things but decrease meat, I think a bit less protein might help. I might suppliment him by doing 1/2 raw and 1/2 kibble. I have to do some research and see. On only kibble his skin is worse, the smell is just horrible while on it so I don't think I would be able to go 100% kibble, but we'll see. I don't want to change a lot because I want to figure out the allergies as well. I'll only change what I already know he is ok with (meaning the kibble he has been on before),
we live in the woods, he walks through grass and woods to go take a break.
I have come to find that his opaque looking eyes are during april/may sept/oct and any time he was in the kennel during april- now. There is dirt in the kennel surrounded by trees so the dust wouldn't have helped either.
I'm taking him for walks instead of him being in the kennel.

He seems to have calmed down with the excessive barking, I'm just not sure now if its that he is just depressed. Today I was very busy and I let him out and he seemed fine. But tomorrow I will be home and take him out and let him be aroudn the house...until he of course gets caught in the garbage can.

Thank you so much for your insight and help, I have been having issues with myself and family and well this stress with him isn't helping my health. I want my baby to be ok and I dont care what I have to do to get him to be ok.

[Traci]

If your vet is at all familiar with supplementing a raw diet, please, ask for her opinion, or, consider a consult with a board certified animal nutritionist, your vet might be able to help with that, otherwise, please don't alter this on your own - so many of these diets are deficient or over/under supplemented.

Max very well could be suffering a little depression from the loss of Sgt, and coupled with the few things that have cropped up lately, could be trying to compensate the best he can. As long as he is eating sufficiently, hydrated, enjoying his normal everyday activities and routine, the 'depression' might be short-lived, but try also to de-stress yourself as well so you can focus on yourself, family and Max's health. Pets do sense when we are "off", our emotions, body language, tone of voice, changes in normal routine etc, so try to keep as much consistency as you can, and of course, give him lots of love and attention.

Followup with your vet and don't let anything go unaddressed. Watch him like a hawk because if he is the least bit depressed or immunocompromised and due to his age, anything or everything can exacerbate rather quickly.

[mamabear]

The Vet is against raw feeding so I will ask if the other vets in the office will help or find someone. I think my best bet is to put him back on straight kibble, there was a fish or chicken one that he was fine on. I have to go back in my records and find out which one. I know some didn't fare well with him but I think the chicken or fish was ok. I'll look.

Yes I have been an emotional rollercoaster, it has been hard here with things going on in my life, even before Sgt. passed away. I know Max picks up on that, the issues are not something that can be ignored so I'm going to have to just take it day by day and sometimes say what the heck and just put a smile on my face.

I took Max out this morning after all the kids were at school, he ran outside, jumped off the porch, tail wagging and was very playful with me. I pushed him and he goes after my feet, this is a game we have so him doing this with me is showing me he's happy.

I think he isn't as vocal in the house anymore because he isn't hearing anything so he has nothing to jump up at and bark at. Now if you knew him before the deafness you would know this is a godsend to a point because max never shut up when the kids passed him and it would scare them. So them being able to walk past now and him just wag his tale and not bark is something happy for the kids. It saddens me that he is deaf but I can't cry over something I can't fix.

He really did seem happy, even went right into the kitchen and right for the carbage can, he couldn't hear me coming up behind him and i was able to catch him, oh he jumped up and ran to his cage. It was quite funny. Tale wagging the whole time.

I needed to hear the whole "i need to relax" thing. It's hard when there is so much gonig on, but I guess like max, if I can't fix it I really need to not worry about it if it's not something directly related to my family. My famiy comes first period.

thanks, hoping that vet calls me today, if she doesn't I'll call and speak to one of the other vets there.