They are "Lenny & Squiggy": big/little, blonde/brunette, laid back goof ball and scrappy spastic bug-eye.
Its classic case of karma: after a very difficult 2010 with a tragic loss in the extended family, dog health issues and my son being diagnosed with a blood disorder, my husband suggested we get a kitten, bring some fun into the house and as a gift to me for the long hard year. One rule from him (speaking in his context), "get a real one, dont go saving the world, this is a gift." I have only rescued sick ones up to this date so I understood his thoughts and agreed. We found Lenny and after transitioning him into the home we knew he needed a younger friend. My husband agreed, I could locate a "healthy" shelter cat because I felt really guilty getting Lenny from a home. When the prior owner followed up two weeks later to check on him, I shared how great he was and we were looking for a playmate. The owner said the "runty" one was undesirable and getting too old for her. It would be great if I would reunite them since the entire litter is gone except for him. Two weeks later "Leo" lost his name, got his brother and Leo was now Lenny. Here I am today...with another sick animal, and a very unhappy husband!!!! LOL Some things are just meant to be...he was sent here for a reason.
Lisa
Kitten with chronic illness
Re: Kitten with chronic illness
Exactly.ociboys wrote:Some things are just meant to be...he was sent here for a reason.
To me, it's for life, in sickness and in health. It just makes it tougher when they are so young and we fight for them to give them a good start in life. Somehow, there's a special specialness about that, and them.
..........Traci
Re: Kitten with chronic illness
Except for my second save, all of my cats were once strays and all were sick. After lots of TLC and nursing them to health, I couldn't part with them. Sure I rescued healthy ones and found them good homes but it's the bond with the ones that really needed me I couldn't break.
I agree, they come to us for a reason.
I agree, they come to us for a reason.
Re: Kitten with chronic illness
First off: Thanks Cleo....I feel the same.
Traci,
Yes, I believe we had a great appointment. She was knowledgeable, thorough, knew every detail of his file, and prepared. Ninety minute appointment. Weight 7 lbs. Temp 101.5
I took in so much information and unfortunately didnt take notes today because we talked about so many details regarding him and I was on the witness stand. Further he was symptomatic in the exam which proved helpful, she also watched a couple videos of what he did this past week. He laid in the scale bassinet for about an hour just watching us talk/review records/x-rays like an obedient child.
The initial diagnosis: Enormous (she used a more tech med term) herpes virus strain running wild, Bronchitis is present, lungs are wheezing, has not progressed to pneumonia (but no doubt will IHO), Lower RI of viral strain., Throaty issues is him bringing up and swallowing the gunk. Snorty nose is viral.
Thoughts....could be a secondary mycoplasma issue too.
No indication of fungal, calci, chlamydia or strain of bacterial.
Improbable...possible food allergy or underlying asthma.
(although asthma may develop from all these problems, hard to tell)
Did not run additional testing outside of checking the lungs. YET.
POA: Famc...2x day for 15 days in pill form..
Flovent HFA 220 mcg, 2x for 1 week, 1x for 1 week
Ventolin HFA (Albuterol) 90 mcg 1x day indefinately for now.
Immediate: Shut down this herpes, he cant do it on his own. Reduce the inflammation in nose, throat and most importantly lungs to help settle down development of mucus to let the virus settle??? Keep open thoughts on possible mycoplasma BUT doesnt want more antibiotic in him right now.
Short leash...return in one week if any decline, return in two weeks if no to mild improvement, return in three weeks if he is improving. Depending on how he responds, further work up would be indicated to run bloodwork, pcr, additional throat culture, rhino scope, rule out myco. Further treatment will continue regardless of above outcome. This is one for the road.
Food...get him off, especially now with his health issues. My choices though have not caused these problems. She would like to see Royal Canin (young guy, little guy??) to promote protein and weight gain. Overall runty, NOT frail, eyes great, ears great.
She provided me with info on the foods...if your interested I could post or PM, they are undesirable yet referring to health so I didnt want to freely state.
Have 2 of three Rx, my pharmacy didnt have smaller dose of Famc. and didnt want me to 1/4 a pill. Should be in tomorrow, will give the old stuff in meantime.
Bowels...could be food, could be meds., could be stress or inflammation. No movement on sunday (that I know of) and very hard form today only once, so no testing stool yet....could be in plan above on follow up to rule out cause if he relapses.
I think that was all....waiting till tomorrow to start new meds so I can be home, awake and monitor. My choice.
Traci, I cannot say thank you enough for your informative, suburb support and knowledge to help this overwhelming situation. His health is my main concern and I want nothing but the best for him. I appreciate your kind words shared over the weekend. Hoping for the best with this new approach. Many thanks and Hugs!! Will keep in touch for sure!
Lisa
Traci,
Yes, I believe we had a great appointment. She was knowledgeable, thorough, knew every detail of his file, and prepared. Ninety minute appointment. Weight 7 lbs. Temp 101.5
I took in so much information and unfortunately didnt take notes today because we talked about so many details regarding him and I was on the witness stand. Further he was symptomatic in the exam which proved helpful, she also watched a couple videos of what he did this past week. He laid in the scale bassinet for about an hour just watching us talk/review records/x-rays like an obedient child.
The initial diagnosis: Enormous (she used a more tech med term) herpes virus strain running wild, Bronchitis is present, lungs are wheezing, has not progressed to pneumonia (but no doubt will IHO), Lower RI of viral strain., Throaty issues is him bringing up and swallowing the gunk. Snorty nose is viral.
Thoughts....could be a secondary mycoplasma issue too.
No indication of fungal, calci, chlamydia or strain of bacterial.
Improbable...possible food allergy or underlying asthma.
(although asthma may develop from all these problems, hard to tell)
Did not run additional testing outside of checking the lungs. YET.
POA: Famc...2x day for 15 days in pill form..
Flovent HFA 220 mcg, 2x for 1 week, 1x for 1 week
Ventolin HFA (Albuterol) 90 mcg 1x day indefinately for now.
Immediate: Shut down this herpes, he cant do it on his own. Reduce the inflammation in nose, throat and most importantly lungs to help settle down development of mucus to let the virus settle??? Keep open thoughts on possible mycoplasma BUT doesnt want more antibiotic in him right now.
Short leash...return in one week if any decline, return in two weeks if no to mild improvement, return in three weeks if he is improving. Depending on how he responds, further work up would be indicated to run bloodwork, pcr, additional throat culture, rhino scope, rule out myco. Further treatment will continue regardless of above outcome. This is one for the road.
Food...get him off, especially now with his health issues. My choices though have not caused these problems. She would like to see Royal Canin (young guy, little guy??) to promote protein and weight gain. Overall runty, NOT frail, eyes great, ears great.
She provided me with info on the foods...if your interested I could post or PM, they are undesirable yet referring to health so I didnt want to freely state.
Have 2 of three Rx, my pharmacy didnt have smaller dose of Famc. and didnt want me to 1/4 a pill. Should be in tomorrow, will give the old stuff in meantime.
Bowels...could be food, could be meds., could be stress or inflammation. No movement on sunday (that I know of) and very hard form today only once, so no testing stool yet....could be in plan above on follow up to rule out cause if he relapses.
I think that was all....waiting till tomorrow to start new meds so I can be home, awake and monitor. My choice.
Traci, I cannot say thank you enough for your informative, suburb support and knowledge to help this overwhelming situation. His health is my main concern and I want nothing but the best for him. I appreciate your kind words shared over the weekend. Hoping for the best with this new approach. Many thanks and Hugs!! Will keep in touch for sure!
Lisa
I will start off by admitting that I did not read all the posts, only the first few, so if what I'm about to say is no longer pertinent, I apologize. As a laboratorian who has worked in Microbiology for over 35 years, the term "negative for pathogens" worries me. Although I work in human medicine, not veterinary, it is very hard for me - someone who works daily with the bacteria, fungi, etc, - to keep up with what is a true pathogen. It's almost impossible for the MDs, vets, etc. to keep up with all the organisms that have been found to cause infections. Organisms once thought to be nonpathogenic are showing up in the literature as the cause of various infections all the time. Almost any bacterium or fungus can cause problems if it gets somewhere it isn't supposed to be. I'd want to know exactly what grew from the cultures and research the organisms to find out if they have been found to cause infections. Also, as Traci mentioned, severe allergy or some type of physical abnormality should be ruled-out.
"A dog is the only thing on earth that loves you more than he loves himself." ~ Josh Billings.
Re: Kitten with chronic illness
I'm certainly not adverse to the option of trying the bronchodilators, but I hope she doesn't plan on prescribing these long term.
It's possible there is a multi-bacterial (again, even a fungal mixed in), in what we call a "bacterial mix", (i.e., the mycoplasma bacteria) sometimes occuring due to the FVR - I hoped she would want to test for calici, chlamydia, since both of these can also harbor bacteria at some point. Most importantly, many bacteria can migrate to the lungs. Prophylactic use of antibiotics isn't a bad thing to approach in this case, since there is more than likely some type colonizing somewhere.
Nonetheless, follow the plan, but do get him back in immediately if the symptoms worsen, or do not improve - at that time, she may want to seriously consider the antibiotics.
Post the food info if you want. The majority of posts here are also intended to help others reading if they have a cat at some point who could benefit from the exchange or dialogue. If for some reason, you're uncomfortable with that, you're welcome to PM me if you like.
Hang in there, I hope the bronchodilators work, at least they will help open the airways for easier breathing. Post updates and let us know how he's doing. I'm a little confused at the names, your littlest one, the darkest oci, and the star of this thread is?
It's possible there is a multi-bacterial (again, even a fungal mixed in), in what we call a "bacterial mix", (i.e., the mycoplasma bacteria) sometimes occuring due to the FVR - I hoped she would want to test for calici, chlamydia, since both of these can also harbor bacteria at some point. Most importantly, many bacteria can migrate to the lungs. Prophylactic use of antibiotics isn't a bad thing to approach in this case, since there is more than likely some type colonizing somewhere.
Nonetheless, follow the plan, but do get him back in immediately if the symptoms worsen, or do not improve - at that time, she may want to seriously consider the antibiotics.
Post the food info if you want. The majority of posts here are also intended to help others reading if they have a cat at some point who could benefit from the exchange or dialogue. If for some reason, you're uncomfortable with that, you're welcome to PM me if you like.
Hang in there, I hope the bronchodilators work, at least they will help open the airways for easier breathing. Post updates and let us know how he's doing. I'm a little confused at the names, your littlest one, the darkest oci, and the star of this thread is?
..........Traci
Re: Kitten with chronic illness
Karen:
report notes: Date of procedure Feb 24: Trans-trach wash: The first page of the ANTECH report states Aerobic culture and MIC. No growth after 24, 48 hours, final, no aerobic growth present after 72 hours. Page 2: Two slides exhibit low numbers of cells and much degenerated material. Many cells have ruptured. Identifiable cells are predom. well differentiated epithelial cells. There are small numbers of neutrophil and macrophages. comment: difficult to determine what types of cells present because they appear ruptured. there are neutrophils and marcophages which can be identified. this suggests inflammation. Organisms are not identified.
Negative for pathogens was my notes to throat culture. I may be speaking out of context. But nothing came of throat culture to go on and thats what I wrote down.
Physical abnormality is not present based on Ultrasound report.
Traci:
We are not done working him up. I think she is concerned with these lungs and think most of the problem is coming from virus....This is my opinion based on what she was telling me. Her first concern was shut down the virus. Then diagnostic will follow to see what/if anything is harboring underneath, the way I understood it anyway. But...very short leash keeping tabs on him. She mentioned mycoplasma more than once as a possibility.
Yes the darker Oci...His name is Squiggy! Brother is Lenny. Ever watch Laverne & Shirley? They could pose as the characters.
I dont think this is a long term plan with inhalers: 1. reduce inflammation, 2. promote reduction of mucus. 3. shut down herpes. 4. plan to review evidence of and other issues if present.
I have to hope for the best, but with the constant recurrence, will keep an open mind to bacterial, fungal and other viral origins if this doesnt heal. Will be adamant/demanding to the multiple tests on next visit if we are not seeing promising results.
Will post food info separate.
--Lisa
report notes: Date of procedure Feb 24: Trans-trach wash: The first page of the ANTECH report states Aerobic culture and MIC. No growth after 24, 48 hours, final, no aerobic growth present after 72 hours. Page 2: Two slides exhibit low numbers of cells and much degenerated material. Many cells have ruptured. Identifiable cells are predom. well differentiated epithelial cells. There are small numbers of neutrophil and macrophages. comment: difficult to determine what types of cells present because they appear ruptured. there are neutrophils and marcophages which can be identified. this suggests inflammation. Organisms are not identified.
Negative for pathogens was my notes to throat culture. I may be speaking out of context. But nothing came of throat culture to go on and thats what I wrote down.
Physical abnormality is not present based on Ultrasound report.
Traci:
We are not done working him up. I think she is concerned with these lungs and think most of the problem is coming from virus....This is my opinion based on what she was telling me. Her first concern was shut down the virus. Then diagnostic will follow to see what/if anything is harboring underneath, the way I understood it anyway. But...very short leash keeping tabs on him. She mentioned mycoplasma more than once as a possibility.
Yes the darker Oci...His name is Squiggy! Brother is Lenny. Ever watch Laverne & Shirley? They could pose as the characters.
I dont think this is a long term plan with inhalers: 1. reduce inflammation, 2. promote reduction of mucus. 3. shut down herpes. 4. plan to review evidence of and other issues if present.
I have to hope for the best, but with the constant recurrence, will keep an open mind to bacterial, fungal and other viral origins if this doesnt heal. Will be adamant/demanding to the multiple tests on next visit if we are not seeing promising results.
Will post food info separate.
--Lisa
Re: Kitten with chronic illness
I understand her approach, and actually glad she didn't opt for anything too invasive right now because he's had such a hard time recently. However, this seems to be a chronic condition so perhaps by catching a good wave, so to speak, the vet could jump on that and consider the most revealing diagnostics when the time is right. I just want to emphasize that timing is everything and you don't want to wait on this.
Unfortunately, one can't shut down the herpesvirus. Limit the symptoms perhaps, and hope for reduction in symptoms and flare-ups as he ages, but Squiggy might have chronic herpesvirus for life. Since he is so young though, he has a good chance of getting these problems limited and secondary problems cured. It is very rare for URI's (as well as lower respiratory) to linger so long, unless it is accompanied with and exacerbated by other problems (bacteria, etc) that have yet to be identified and treated.
I hope you don't misunderstand, I'm not trying to pressure you, just want you to be armed with information and the options, as well as the seriousness of potential bacteria/fungal/etc left undetected. Even though you've already run a course of diagnostics, the timing could have influenced results, in that some types of bacteria may not have been present then, but are possibly present now. The prior diagnostics didn't seem revealing so additional would be prudent. Your vet knows this, yet she's also being cautious and wants to expect to see some results with Squiggy's new treatment, I hope helps the bronchial issues - one day at a time....
Ha, I didn't connect Lenny and Squiggy til you mentioned Laverne and Shirley, thanks, and thanks for helping me with who's who!
Unfortunately, one can't shut down the herpesvirus. Limit the symptoms perhaps, and hope for reduction in symptoms and flare-ups as he ages, but Squiggy might have chronic herpesvirus for life. Since he is so young though, he has a good chance of getting these problems limited and secondary problems cured. It is very rare for URI's (as well as lower respiratory) to linger so long, unless it is accompanied with and exacerbated by other problems (bacteria, etc) that have yet to be identified and treated.
I hope you don't misunderstand, I'm not trying to pressure you, just want you to be armed with information and the options, as well as the seriousness of potential bacteria/fungal/etc left undetected. Even though you've already run a course of diagnostics, the timing could have influenced results, in that some types of bacteria may not have been present then, but are possibly present now. The prior diagnostics didn't seem revealing so additional would be prudent. Your vet knows this, yet she's also being cautious and wants to expect to see some results with Squiggy's new treatment, I hope helps the bronchial issues - one day at a time....
Ha, I didn't connect Lenny and Squiggy til you mentioned Laverne and Shirley, thanks, and thanks for helping me with who's who!
..........Traci
Conversation with the new feline vet as it relates to nutritional and food choices. These are strictly opinions shared by the new feline vet in an effort to review optimal healthy choices for my sick kitty. Obviously 2nd hand info coming from me. Please feel free to post or remove if inappropriate for this forum...
1. Wellness...all things put aside to the recall. Many (even majority) of her patients presenting and emergency client visits for kitties (boy and girls) having Struvite Crystals. She has contacted company on many occasions and they have not and will not share information she needs to review causal relation to the food.
Blue Buffalo....she doesnt not have many patients on this diet. However, does know they refuse to share information with treating vets. Red Flag for her.
Weruva....absolutely against it. Has had many kidney suffering kitties who eat this food. Weruva refused to share pertinent information with her on multiple occasions required to confirm/diagnose and treat the kitty. Doesnt care for location of mfg. (Thailand) and lack of US involvement on what is really going on.
Natural Balance...no details shared. I saw a frown but we may have been side tracked on this one.
Merrick...we didnt get to.
This opinion is based on only foods I introduced to my kitties. My goals are to provide a high quality, human grade meat product which lacks chemicals and additives which are harmful to their health. I was advised Royal Canin is my best option to try based on her opinion for what I am trying to achieve.
Lisa
1. Wellness...all things put aside to the recall. Many (even majority) of her patients presenting and emergency client visits for kitties (boy and girls) having Struvite Crystals. She has contacted company on many occasions and they have not and will not share information she needs to review causal relation to the food.
Blue Buffalo....she doesnt not have many patients on this diet. However, does know they refuse to share information with treating vets. Red Flag for her.
Weruva....absolutely against it. Has had many kidney suffering kitties who eat this food. Weruva refused to share pertinent information with her on multiple occasions required to confirm/diagnose and treat the kitty. Doesnt care for location of mfg. (Thailand) and lack of US involvement on what is really going on.
Natural Balance...no details shared. I saw a frown but we may have been side tracked on this one.
Merrick...we didnt get to.
This opinion is based on only foods I introduced to my kitties. My goals are to provide a high quality, human grade meat product which lacks chemicals and additives which are harmful to their health. I was advised Royal Canin is my best option to try based on her opinion for what I am trying to achieve.
Lisa