Update on Willow and Chunk's progress

[Tina B and crew]

It seems like we hit a plateau. Willow is doing more of her normal stuff: getting in her tent (which usually ends up with Chunk jumping on top of it and Willow hissing/growling/swatting before she runs out, attempting to play independently of Chunk (this never goes far...he comes running and Willow will stop...I can only get her to play if I shut the door and he can't come in the room, but that ends with him yowling outside the door) , snuggling on my lap (she is doing that much more, but if I'm alone Chunk wants to snuggle too and that ends up with Willow leaving my lap except for one time she stayed...growling and hissing until he completely fell asleep)...she's always continued to eat/litterbox/drink normally. Maybe (if we are lucky once a day), usually toward the evening, she attempts play with Chunk. I'll see her hide behind something, or in her tent and get in the stalking butt wiggle stance to jump out at him when he runs by. It sometimes ends in rambunctious chases and wrestles. A few times, when he catches her before she can initiate, Willow hisses and walks away. She is determined that play can only commence on HER terms although she does wrestle sometimes when he initiates it.

That said, we are still having a bit growling and hissing. I'd say it hasn't got any worse, but it hasn't decreased either. Some days are better than others. There are times when he can just walking into her sight and she will growl. Other times she does nothing. Sometimes he can walk by her a bit too closely and she will growl or hiss, other times she does nothing. She is not interested in having a cuddle buddy at all and has made that very evident for the most part. Now I have no idea what they do while we are gone during the day but when I'm here I'm still noticing some sulking/growling/hissing from Willow and Chunk looking as if he has no idea what he did He has gotten a bit better about leaving her alone when she shows no interest in playing. If I hear Willow making noises of protest when he tries to wrestle I get the squirt bottle..it's take a a while for him to learn but he seems to be learning to not be so persistent with her.

It bothers me to see Willow in any kind of sullen mood at all, since she was normally always a bubbly, talkative, velcro cat. It's been a month, I was hoping we would have made more progress than this but there has been progress at least. I just keep hoping and praying for more because I don't like to hear the growling and hissing. Why can't I have a normal cat household where they snuggle and get along?

[Traci]

Is it possible Willow is just being Willow?

When the other cats were there, were they growing up together as kittens? Sometimes our adults just aren't that excited with a new kitten. It doesn't mean the environment is chaotic, it just means personalities are different and the adult cat is simply trying to adjust to more energy around the house

[k9Karen]

My brother and late SIL had 3 cats who never really got along. Cat #1 made it clear from the beginning that cat #2 was not allowed in their bedroom. #1 would lie across the doorway at night so #2 couldn't get in. She only allowed access when it was feeding time and the two together would try to wake up their humans. #1 would tolerate #2 in the living, family, and dining rooms along with the kichen, so #2 took over the remainder of the house, especially the bedrooms on the side of the house opposite the master bedroom. #1 slept in the room with my brother and SIL, #2 slept with their son and usually stayed in his bedroom during the day. By the time #3 joined the household, #1 ad #2 had pretty much staked out their territory, so she ended up with the family room and my brother's office/computer room. To the best of my knowledge they never played together or cuddled with each other. They simply tolerated each other. I told this long story to hopefully help you realize that they will eventually work out the boundaries one way or the other, and it sounds like your two are getting along much better than my brother's cats ever did.

[Tina B and crew]

I think, Traci, what I'm basing this on is the fact that when we had other cats in the house before Willow NEVER growled and hissed at them except with one foster cat in particular (who interestingly enough happened to be the same coloring as Chunk), but with all the other kittens and cats she always seemed to want to get along with, play, groom etc. Especially the kittens. Our other residents cats were simply atrocious to her as you may remember, even though she did her best to get along with them. She never showed one ounce of typical cat behavior to them. She was the sweetest cat I had ever known and I am not exaggerating. First time I brought her into the house she wanted to greet them and play and they didn't. I remember the first toy I brought to her and how excited she was to play with it. I felt she REALLY appreciated that she had a forever home. Anthropomorphising I know...but it seemed that was how she felt. She went through nearly 4 years of hell with one cat or the other chasing her in aggression. I am wondering if that experience with them is what has her acting this way toward Chunk. Maybe she learned that being docile, friendly, and playful got her nowhere with Gizmo and Frodo (other than a vet visit, scratches, and fear of being anywhere near them)??? I don't know, I'm trying not to let it bother me, I just remember the Willow that use to get rather excited at the sight of kittens and want to play and groom. AND I remember the Willow that use to play spontaneously, come running to greet me when I got home, and she no longer does.

Bottom line? I miss that Willow and am hoping that she returns sooner than later. Am I hoping for a miracle? Or is it possible she will change as Chunk gets older and less rambunctious? I guess another one of my fears is as Chunk gets bigger he's going to be able to easily overtake her. He's not going to be a small cat, he's already almost as tall as Willow and he's only about 4 months old. I've watched him walk up next to Willow and bite her neck...what's with that behavior? Personally I can understand her intolerance of him at times. But then she will turn around and try to play or groom him...those moments are in the minority though.

Karen...our household was like that before. Frodo and Gizmo not only didn't tolerate each other but Frodo was downright vicious to Gizmo...then when Khanada came into the picture as a kitten, Gizmo became pals with her after a while and Frodo tolerated her as long as she kept her distance. When we adopted Willow Gizmo became extremely aggressive toward her and eventually Frodo followed suit. Khanada wasn't vicious but would chase her out of a room or off the couch or bed. Willow was at the very bottom of the totem pole. Until Frodo and Gizmo's dying days they were very aggressive toward Willow. So I've been use to the intolerable cat syndrome
You can see Willow has been through a lot. I am not sure why I thought bringing another cat in would be good for her. I still have my days when I regret my decision (although I do admit they are coming fewer and further between and are usually when I'm stressed about something else), not on Chunk's part, but on Willow's part. And I feel awful feeling that way.

[Traci]

Not to bring back hurtful memories, at all, but can you remind me how long it has been since Willow has had a kitty companion, a year or so? If over a year, this is going to take a bit more patience, since a year is a VERY long time for ANY kitty. So, that long of a time span, then have a new introduction (or any change in the environment), will take some time to adjust.

I can't directly answer some of your questions or even try to predict, but some of my cats have been the same way. Some of them have become more mellow, some of them unchanged at all. Remember Cody, who I always said was so rambunctious and climbing the walls? He still is, but just a little less now, I contribute it to age, and maybe the "pecking order" of the household has several more personalities. Yes, some personalities change a bit, and sometimes we miss those personalities. But, it doesn't mean we've lost the part of the cat we love most, his or her attributes we fell in love with and continue to love.

I can tell you, though, through experience, it is a bit more difficult for some adult cats to adjust to the younger cats as opposed to vice versa. I suspect it is much like human aging, some of us are less tolerant of youngsters' actions, some of us just go with the flow. It's not a bad thing, we just have different personalities, and our environments sometimes shape that.

I don't think anything you've come up against with Willow and Chunk are too concerning. Willow has shown she accepts Chunk, and perhaps is just taking her own time in determining what she wants her limits to be.

It is possible Willow may become more bonded with Chunk as he matures, but at the same time, do NOT try to prohibit the natural communication and order between them. Both are forming the relationship as they both see fit. Willow is actually teaching boundaries and limits, and Chunk as he matures, will be better adjusted due to her lessons. Likewise Chunk also teaches Willow tolerance, and invites play and socialization. Try not to change too much of the environment, especially things Willow is used to.

The biting on the neck is natural instinct, Chunk is testing the waters and displaying his male dominance over the female. It can also be interpreted as play and affection. Even my females do this to each other, it is nothing too concerning unless Willow hisses/growls or fights him because of it.

I know you miss some of Willow's prior behavior and antics. They aren't gone, just suspended as she learns how to adjust to Chunk. Remember that NEW behaviors and new personality traits might become evident, which are equal to the previous behaviors. Not a bad thing, sometimes new behaviors can be a good thing

From what you've posted, I don't think Willow dislikes Chunk in the least, I think she may just be less tolerant for whatever her reasons, possibly due to getting older, and having had all of your attention for all that time. Just continue your regular routines with her as you've always done, and don't change anything. She will remember those times and appreciate them. Don't give up trying!

[Tina B and crew]

It's actually been nearly 3 years Traci...and while I hated losing Frodo it was delightful to see Willow bloom in those three years to the cat she has become today. She went from being a timid, but loving, cat who spent most of her time tiptoeing around dominant cats, not able to play without the threat of someone getting PO'd that she came to close to them (and I'm not exaggerating here at all) to being a cat who jumped and ran and played at will. It was almost as if she found her "voice" and is one of the reasons I was reluctant to bring another cat and why I insisted it be a kitten and not another adult cat.

The biting on the neck is natural instinct, Chunk is testing the waters and displaying his male dominance over the female. It can also be interpreted as play and affection. Even my females do this to each other, it is nothing too concerning unless Willow hisses/growls or fights him because of it.

I've seen her just duck out of it and start wrestling and I've also seen her hiss when he does it, especially if she doesn't see him coming. She's just so unpredictable in her reactions to him...that's what is confusing me so much. Tolerable one minute, hissing and growling the next..I kid you not! I guess her tolerance level is met pretty quickly..LOL

I know, I'm still projecting some of my stuff into this whole situation. I usually thrive on change but have felt spread a bit thin lately. I guess some consistency in some aspect of my life would be nice and I'm not getting it in any aspect of my life. Probably not the most ideal time to adopt another cat, but the opportunity presented itself and well, here we are.


I know you are probably weary of my concerns and seeming lack of patience I guess I'm not seeing the baby steps that are probably happening on a day by day basis. They DO sleep on the same bed during the day quite often (I usually hear a hiss or two as Willow tells him to move it to his own end...LOL)...so I know they are really making progress. And Willow has managed to keep the top bunk to herself, but is actually spending less time up there except to eat (we have her feeding station set up there to keep Chunk from slurping it all up)

[Traci]

I know you are probably weary of my concerns and seeming lack of patience

No I'm not!!

I really do understand your worry and frustrations, we pet owners all have them. And yes, even I have some pretty strange thoughts about my kiddens from time to time

But, since we are on the net and communication is hard sometimes, I try to read between the lines and see what you might not be seeing because you are involved and I am seeing from a different angle.

Your last paragraph says a lot. They truly are baby steps and some cats just take longer than others. Also, if your schedule and routine has changed or changes now more often, Willow could be sensing that and may not outwardly be showing those endearing antics you so miss. Mostly in my opinion, is because her attention has been focused on something new and she's just trying her best to deal with that on a daily basis (much like you are )

I have had the same concerns from time to time. Some of my cats are really outgoing and sometimes I've seen some outright changes in their attitudes with new introductions and even beyond. But, they always seem to work it out amongst themselves without little interference from me. I do try really hard to keep everyone happy, as I know their individual needs and I accommodate them the best I can.

I think you just have a situation where it may take a bit more time than what you're used to in the past. It's a big change for Willow and Chunk is just trying to learn and grow. I don't think you should focus too hard on Willow's slowness to adapt, but rather focus on the small successes you see, and reward them both for it. When you see the success, no matter how slight, it should help put a little perspective on your own hectic life. For me anyway, my cats are like my security blanket, they calm me when I'm upset, overwhelmed, help slow me down and put my priorities back in order. Oh, and try not to bring work home with you.

If I may ask, what are hubby's thoughts on all of this? Does he see what you see? Is he worried too? I assume that Willow is more bonded to you, how is hubby bonding to Chunk? Has Chunk decided which of you is his person? A long shot, but if Chunk has chosen you as his person as opposed to hubby, that might be part of the reason you are seeing Willow's slow acceptance. Not that two cats can't share their same person, just wanted to get a feel for that possibility.

[Tina B and crew]

Mostly in my opinion, is because her attention has been focused on something new and she's just trying her best to deal with that on a daily basis (much like you are icon_wink.gif )

That is very true...when it's just Willow and me in the room with the door shut she's her absolute normal self. AND it seems like every time I post a concern that I'll turn and there will be one of those baby steps. Like this morning when Willow got up, she didn't do her usual growling at Chunk until he started jumping on her...then she got PO'd and has told him in no uncertain terms "I am NOT in the mood!!!" AND she actually was playing with a toy, batting it around and stuff and when Chunk tried to jump in on the action she swatted him away and continued to play until he jumped on top of her and she got PO'd, growled and told him again! LOL I'm sensing that she just is not interested in the rough play as he is. I try to distract him but when he is focused on Willow he is a persistent little devil. The squirt bottle works for a few minutes but he goes back at it. I only use it when Willow seems really aggravated with his antics of tackling her. If she's wrestling back and not making a lot of vocalizations, or I see her initiate it I just let them take care of it. I sense that in the mornings Willow just wants her quiet time.

For me anyway, my cats are like my security blanket, they calm me when I'm upset, overwhelmed, help slow me down and put my priorities back in order. Oh, and try not to bring work home with you

That's exactly what it is for me and I sense Willow's frustration and thus I get frustrated. I am better at just letting her handle it, but sometimes it just feels like enough is enough. She's still my comfort and security though...and she does a darn good job at it.
As far as bringing work home...it's not possible to avoid that. I have to or else I'd be gone a lot more. And it's the winter of being snowed in a lot so I'm forced to do my work here at home rather than in the library.

If I may ask, what are hubby's thoughts on all of this? Does he see what you see? Is he worried too? I assume that Willow is more bonded to you, how is hubby bonding to Chunk? Has Chunk decided which of you is his person? A long shot, but if Chunk has chosen you as his person as opposed to hubby, that might be part of the reason you are seeing Willow's slow acceptance. Not that two cats can't share their same person, just wanted to get a feel for that possibility.

Therein lies part of the problem I think. I've tried to get Chunk to gravitate toward hubby but I am the one more likely to engage in chatter and play with the cats. He will do it on occasion and he's really attached to Chunk in a way, but I think he could pick it up a bit more. Chunk, like Willow follows me wherever I go. I do think that is part of the problem because there is no doubt about it that Willow laid claim on her mommy a long time ago and isn't going to acquiesce to a little rugrat!


Now...with that all out of the way...last night this is what I walked back into the bedroom to find...











Oh and "drugging" Willow with catnip works to get her to mellow out...but when I give her catnip Chunk wants to get in the middle of her catnip even when I give him his own! No, what Willow has must be better!


I guess I'll just have to learn to accept that her growls and hisses are just her communications to Chunk to chill out and leave her be for a while. At least they aren't aggressive, more of an annoyed gesture.

[Tina B and crew]

Oh..and I stepped out for a few moments today while Willow was sleeping on the couch and Chunk was playing....when I came back in here is what I found:




Willow wasn't looking too happy, and she emitted a very soft growl a few times but never moved and finally tucked under and fell asleep. Chunk stayed for a little while, got down and played again, then jumped back up and is curled up about 6" away from Willow now, both sound asleep on this cold, dreary, soon to be windy day. He really just wants to be near her...he was so attached to his mama....

[Traci]

Love the pics, if that isn't success, I don't know what is!

Question, does Willow growl just when she knows you're observing, or can you hear her when you're in another room? Sometimes, they will put on a show just for us if they know we're watching then when you're not around, they groom an ear, touch paws, etc etc.

I have the same problem with catnip, no one stays in their designated spot, they ALL have to get into each other's. But then, that's how they act on catnip. I just make sure they are spaced apart a bit, or even in separate rooms of one gets too rambunctious.

As for hubby, we can't force a cat's choice in their human, but it wouldn't hurt if hubby did some of the basic things like feeding, playing etc. It could be that Chunk hasn't decided yet which is his human, you'll find out soon enough. In any case, sharing the duties between you is always helpful so the cat at least learns respect from both of you.

It is normal for Chunk to want to play and bond with Willow. When they are at this age and stage in life, the feline company is always preferable to the human company. That's how they learn and socialize. And of course his energy exceeds hers, but it sounds like she is teaching him the boundaries. You never know, at some point, Willow might relax more when she learns Chunk is not a threat to her, and start playing more with him.