I'm concerned about the tummyknockers

[Auntie Debbie]

Most don't seem to be gaining adequate weight. The biggest weighs 7.5 but the other three weigh between 6.1-6.8. They are nursing, have round little bellies and look okay but they are now nine days old...Shouldn't they weigh more like the bigger one ? Especially the gray one at 6.1 who hash 't gained anything in over 24 hours? I've started giving them dome NMR but since they are nursing how much to give and when?

[Auntie Debbie]

Pics of the tummyknockers

Notice how the dark orange on the left is bigger than the light orange on the right



Notice how the dark orange on the left is bigger than the gray



Here they are nursing, again notice how the dark orange on the left is bigger, but yet they all nurse



The other day she moved them to a different spot for a while, notice how the dark orange on the right is bigger



Here they are lined up mafioso style, large dark orange is on the left



And isnn't this just the sweetest pic?



Notice too how small and thin Nanceen herself is



Mama will eat adult wet food, but not wet kitten. She is eating Science Diet dry. I'm going to stop at the vets today and pick up some cans of a/d and see if she will eat that to boost her calorie intake. She is attentive with the kittens; nurses them, licks their butts, and anytime she's out of the crate and one starts fussing she goes right back in and takes care of it. And anytime I'm handling them for whatever reason, and they start crying she's right there....we've evenn almost had a tug of war a few times, LOL! Sooooo, since they do maintain the food coma bellies and are nursing and doing everything else you'd expect them too (although I'd think their eyes should be more open by now?), how would I know if I should supplement, how much and when? I don't want to overfeed them!

[Traci]

Is it possible to get Nanceen and babies to the vet? (you have to take them together, they can't be seperated for that long). Nanceen and babies should be weighed and Nanceen examined to ensure she has adequate milk production. If she doesn't, you may have to supplement with KMR. I don't think I'd start supplementing without the vet's opinion, since you truly want them on momma's milk.

Check my kitten care development page, it's a guide but is accurate. Don't worry about the eyes opening at this point, I'd be more worried if they didn't start opening their eyes at day 14.

If they are starting to use their back legs when crawling, that's a pretty good indicator they are developing well, and developing their strength.

Be sure you watch for them eliminating, it would be tiny amounts and Nanceen may be taking care of it before you notice, but check right after they have nursed and before they've bedded down for naps. Their abdomens should not be hard or distended, they will be round from milk intake but the abdomens should feel soft. Don't manipulate their bellies, Nanceen will do that on her own as she grooms them.

Are you watching them closely when they are nursing? Not that the pics are any indicator, but a couple of them show the little grey babe all over the place instead of at mom's nipple. Most kittens, by instinct, will keep returning to the same nipple and only move on to another if mom's milk isn't producing....so try moving the gray babe to where the largest orange babe has been suckling (generally, they will figure this out for themselves, but you really do have to monitor, look for milk around their mouths to ensure they are actually getting enough intake).

I'm not sure I would use A/D, but your vet can advise. Try mixing the canned kitten food with a dry kitten food for Nanceen and try to avoid adult food if possible. She really needs the nutrients in kitten food to support both herself and her kittens.

Print out the KMR feeding guide on the kitten page and ask the vet if he thinks the amounts of formula per weight are ok to use even though they seem to be still nursing.

Just in case, here's a gram to ounce conversion calculator to use.

Ultimately, Debbie, I'd get them to your vet and make sure Nanceen is producing enough milk, she looks pretty thin.

[Cleo]

I've never helped rear kittens from birth; when I rescued Gwen and her litter, they were already 2 to 3 weeks old. Their weights were low at the time and never in synch with one another. Two out of the four always had lower weights and in fact, Mitzi (the runt) has yet to catch up almost 5 years later. HOLY COW! wait a minute! I have to check the dates, this crew CANNOT be 5 already!

Anyway, I would definitely try and get mama on a higher calorie diet and make sure her nipples aren't clogged. Even though they are nursing, could be not alot is passing through.

[Auntie Debbie]

Traci, the little gray one has gone from 6.1 to 6.2 this afternoon. I'm guessing he's what one would call the "runt". However, this little guy, along with the next in line on the least weight scale can support themselves briefly on all fours and walk a few steps. They both get around very easily. They look proportioned and have the round little bellies. Nanceen does lick their butts often; I've seen her do it and there are occasional traces of pee or liquid on the towels.
I've read your chart and others like it, did the math. If it wasn't for the big guy and reading your chart I'd say they are just small. I can live with that with the middle two, since they are gaining. The piggie can maybe just be getting daddy genes in being huge. It's really the little gray one that has me the most concerned, although he does "look" and act normal.
I will see how it goes today and call the vet tomorrow morning if I really need to be even more concerned.....no, I jusgt called the vet and am waiting for someone to call me back.
I bought some of the Fancy Feast kitten canned for her...she was eating that and see what that gets me. I will also mix xome kmr with water for her and see if she'll lap that up. If not I'll try some of that in her food.

[E's]

Lucky kitties, to have you and Traci AND hands-on vet exams too! These babies look normal to me - I think you would be hearing a lot of squeaks if there were serious problems. Glad you recall about the gene pattern differences: most litters are fraternal siblings. It has been a while since I got to raise newbies... I seem to remember 11 days as norm for eye-opening, but could be thinking of some other types of critter. Give all of these and the mama a kiss from old granny hobbit, ok? I am enjoying the pictures!

[Auntie Debbie]

E, my main concern is the little gray one that's not really gaining much...maybe Nanceen isn't producing enough milk. I really need some real peace of mind on this. She a very good mother but that little one is just making me nuts with not gaining.
Traci I just made the appt with the vet tomorrow at 11:15. The rescue group has agreed to pay for it. If they weren't going to agree I'd just pay for it myself.
And here's the weight chart

Here is the weight chart…daily starting 4/9 when they were 2 days old about 2pm each day

Dark Orange : 4.5, 5.1, 5.5, 6.2, 6.5, 6.8, 7.3, 7.5, 7.8 gained 3.3 oz.
Light Orange: 4.0, 4.6, 4.9, 5.3, 5.6, 6.0, 6.2, 6.5, 7.2 gained 3.2 oz
Calico: 4.1, 4.6, 4.8, 5.1, 5.5, 5.8, 6.2, 6.4, 6.6 gained 2.5 oz
Gray 4.5, 5.0, 5.2, 5.4, 5.7, 5.9, 6.1, 6.1, 6.2 gained 1.7 oz.

[mamabear]

Debbie, I'd say call vet tomorrow. Good that you are keeping an eye on things. You are awesome!!!

I Had a runt of the litter, he was gray as well. He turned out to be 15 lbs ROFL!!!!!

You're doin great, keep up the good work and let us know what dr. says.

[Traci]

Glad you have the appointment, your vet can also check for cleft palate, but that's doubtful if the grey babe is at least gaining and thriving.

I'd go ahead and place the gray babe at the nipple which seems to be producing most, and make sure he/she is not getting pushed or crowded out by the others. You will have to be diligent with this, but it's worth it to make sure he's getting enough. Also observe Nanceen's attention to him in particular.

Be prepared for supplemental KMR at least for him, but please let your vet advise first. He can check his weight for accuracy, look at his strength and bone formation/growth etc and make a determination on supplemental formula or not. In the meantime, make sure he and the rest are warm, comfy, continue nursing, and that he isn't getting crowded out.

[Auntie Debbie]

Breakthrough at last! This morning the little gray one has gained. He's now up to 6.4...still on the small side if their weight is supposed to double since birth, but at least he's gaining again.
Nanceen is very good with him. Twice I've seen her actually take him aside and nurse him only. He was the first one she moved the day she moved them. If there is something really wrong with the tyke I would have thought she would reject him. Instead she is showing him more attention. Even Hubby said he was watching them last night and he was overe by her chin...she moved him over with her paw so he could nurse. He's not at all neglected by her.
I started her back on Fancy Feast Kitten canned food and she has been eating that well. She still eats the Science Diet dry kitten food as well. Oddly she won't eat the Temptations cat treats. I thought everybody loved those!
I will probably still keep the vet appt this morning to make sure little gray and mama are doing okay. I'm just glad he's gaining again!