Pup bitten by sick stray dog - vaccinate now?

[Traci]

What I meant was the series of rabies vaccinations he is evidently giving the puppy. AKA, boosters.

Human versus feline bloodwork normal value ranges. NOT the same. Nor does the equipment used contain the exact same laboratory reference ranges.

[Ash]

Nor does the equipment used contain the exact same laboratory reference ranges.

I guess only human equipment is available here.

I talked to my vet. He was very happy to learn that there is an American vet who is available for medical questions, because, he says, sometimes he simply doesn't know how to proceed and "not everything is in the books, you need to ask someone who has the experience" and apparently other local vets also often don't know. He wants to register in this forum if and when he needs assistance.

He also said thank you for sharing your knowledge about vaccines. It is indeed standard procedure here to give 3 shots in the course of one week if there is even a slight worry exposure to rabies might have occurred. He also finds it heavy on the pup, but the alternative is to take a risk. He decided not to take the risk.

The rabies vaccine he uses is imported, and the only type available in India for animals. It is by the company Virbac and is called Rabigen. It's an antigen, not an antibody vaccine. He has given 1ml twice so far. Should he give the third one on day 7?

The difficulty for Indian vets is most of all shortage of money. They don't earn much here. He is saving to be able to buy a portable x ray, a miscroscope, an ultrasound machine. Not only doesn't he earn much, but his clients also don't often want to pay for tests and procedures for their pets. Hence, acquiring hands-on experience is slow. If nobody wants to pay for a blood count for their pet, or an x ray, ultrasound etc, how are the vets to gain the experience?

One more thing he asked: are there new 2008 vaccination (any kind) schedule guidelines for pets and shelter animals available online? He has the 2007 guide and is wondering if there is an update.

[Traci]

Ash, the 3-7-14-28-day series is most likely extrapolated from human post-exposure protocol, and I understand that vets in other countries believe this is also the best approach for animals, but it simply is not necessary and is in my opinion, overkill.

Your vet should have, with each shipment of the vaccines, either an MSDS sheet or a product information sheet that accompanies the product. If he doesn't, then send him HERE (this is a PDF file).

Please pay special attention to the following from the product's information sheet:

1) One dose of Rabigen mono is formulated to contain more than 5 times the activity requirement of the World Health Organization (WHO) which is 1 International Unit/ml.

2) In puppies and kittens, after S.C. primovaccination with Rabigen mono, VNA titers reach and average of 8 IU/ml, far above the conventional protective threshold of 0.5 IU/ml.

And please note, elsewhere in the information sheet, it notes that an overdose of the vaccine is not likely to cause reactions, however, it is assumed the dose is not beyond a DOUBLE dose, and again, we're talking about a 7-week-old puppy, who needs time to develop antibodies.

If your vet is using the "standard protocol" (as determined by common consensus for Indian vets or for lack of educational material) for rabies vaccination, then he is giving 3 whole ml's of the vaccine in ONE WEEK where only ONE is necessary. Then he will probably want to do another 1 ml dose when the pup reaches 3 months of age, then another 1 ml dose at one year of age. See the overkill here? He's essentially overdosing the pup before the pup even has a chance to naturally develop antibodies, thereby risking the vaccine ineffective at such a young age.

In my opinion, if the very first dose was exactly 1 ml, then NO MORE IS NECESSARY before 3 months of age. Then at 3 months of age, only ONE MORE 1 ml DOSE. And, I would not vaccinate with the 7-in-one for at LEAST 3-4 weeks, and even then, depending on what type vaccine it is, some of the components may not be necessary.

The links I gave you are the current protocols for canine vaccinations. Again, vaccinations, frequency of vaccinations etc all depend on the risk factor for the individual dog, which always must be taken into account. Some of those risk factors are: age, health status, environment, susceptibility, multi-dog environment, pre or post exposure, vaccination history or lack of, etc. For current Feline Vaccination protocols, you can either check my page here or refer to the American Association of Feline Practitioners ( http://www.catvets.com/ ), keeping in mind again, these are protocols based in the US.

The vet could register here, but I am not a vet, I'm a tech. Davet is a vet, but it is unethical for any of us to dictate biologicals or other treatments, diagnose etc especially due to constraints (legal and otherwise), differences between practices of medicine between countries, liabilities, and so on and so on. Your vet should have some sort of availability to confer with a few of the veterinary universities in the country. I've read numerous research by Indian vets, these specialists DO exist! Please keep in mind that your vet is governed much differently than the vets in the US. We can only advise based on our practices here, it's up to your vet to get the needed information from his peers or governed veterinary organization.

[Ash]

Thank you Traci for that!

I have emailed him the Rabigen leaflet, and also the provided links.

[Ash]

Just a quick update: my vet read all the info you gave and we decided not to give him a third rabies shot.

He recovered remarkably well, in the second week starting to walk around quite normally, just limping a bit. Together with an organisation here which is called PawsPack, we were able to find him a home which I'm very happy about. They will take good care, PawsPack also monitors new owners with unannounced visits etc, to make sure he'll get the appropriate vaccines in time, gets neutered, and stays in good health.

He will have a better life than the one he was born into (street)!

Here he is, I named him Chico. The picture was taken about a week ago, just before I gave him away. (Wasn't easy for me, I got attached to the little guy!)

[Traci]

What an adorable little guy!!! Thanks Ash, for doing everything you did for this special little one!

[Ash]

Yes, he is cute, isn't he? Several people have said he looks like there must have been a German shepherd dog involved somewhere.

I called the new owners yesterday and he is doing fine. They have been to their vet with him for a checkup and he said the leg has healed completely and won't be any problem in future.

Wish you all a Happy New Year!

[k9Karen]

You did a very wonderful thing Ash! The puppy is as cute as he can be, and, I definitely agree that there is likely some German Shepherd in the mix. I'm glad he's doing well and has found a loving home.

[mamabear]

I say he is all german shep but I am bias. I have two of them lol


I have to say that I have had had a series of rabies vaccinations and they are not fun when you are "allergic" is what they called it. I had a huge reaction to them and of course couldn't stop them. I did day one with vaccine and immunglobulin (sp?), then 3,7,14,28 it was not fun and I lost a tremendous amount of weight.

it was me and 4others back in 1992. A kitten that had been thrown accross the room by their dog who was fed up with the kitten bitting him and hte owners. Owners thought it was just kitten being a kitten(ONLY 3months old). Mother was Hit by car when kitten born and these people brought this kitten to us way back when it was born and we saved. Only to have it come to us and be rabid 3months later.

I was scratched/bite and was told the next day to go to ER due to a positive result from testing. I was mortified and only 18 and I was going to get married within 3months.

This is the reason I do not go near strays ever for any reason without caution. But of course I will if I know it's safe.

ASH, i want to commend you for doing what you can there. its so great hearing the things you do. I know you dont post much but neither do i.

And Traci, yes I agree.... the methods that I have read that you try to figure out in the Indian culture with those vets are so hard to figure out. I'm surprised ASH hasn't smacked the vet's around there already lol.

Hugs and prayers to all of you !!!!

[Ash]

Hi Mamabear!

I have been living here since 1995 and am still trying to figure out the Indian mind

The animals are easier to understand ...

One big problem here is that Indian vets don't work with each other. They don't ask each other, don't help each other, don't discuss medicine or anything. Because it's a business and they are all competitors. So everyone struggles on their own. At least my new vet is using the internet and seems to have more knowledge than others I have met.

The other problem is lack of resources, i.e. money. Vets don't earn much here, they can't afford to rent more than one or at the most two tiny rooms out of which they practise and where they treat and operate. Hardly any furniture inside, no diagnostic equipment AT ALL. They simply can't afford it. Same goes for the labs.

It's all very limited. And so is the training from what I heard.

One has to keep these things in mind before judging too harshly.

But what does make me angry is the laziness and the lack of concern, care, urgency. But that is the way of Indians in general, not only among vets. It's all very sloppy ...

Funny thing is that Indians who have been studying or living in Europe or the US change. They change a lot. Which shows that they are themselves not really happy with the way things are handled here and once given the incentive and the support are happy and eager to advance.

Well, I guess we are slowly steering far off topic ...

Greetings to all ... Ash