My parents' dog, Tyler, is... gosh, 12 years old? He's a big black lab, about 90 pounds. They've taken him to the vet quite a few times in the past two years trying to figure out what his problem is, but multiple vets haven't found anything. The two big issues:
1. He won't walk on the hardwood floors (which is the entire house, so throw rugs are everywhere). He'll go down stairs, but not up them. And he makes a LOT of grunting and groaning noise when he lays down or gets up. They've checked him for arthritis and two vets have said that he doesn't exhibit the signs, though they did recommend creating warm, soft places for him to sleep, which seems to help, sometimes. But now that it's winter, he's getting worse. Should we find a third vet and push for treatment? If so, what?
2. He gags. There's no real other way to explain it. He'll just be sitting and relaxing, and he'll gag. Sounds like a cat horking up a hairball, but nothing ever comes out. Never throws up, isn't immediately after food, nothing. They've done x-rays, ultrasounds, and even scoped his throat and stomach. No lesions, no tumors, no fatty buildup, nothing at all that can explain the gagging. This has been going on for at least the last two years, maybe longer. Any ideas?
Bloodwork and all that goes with it has come back normal; other than these two issues, he appears on paper to be a very healthy, if aging, dog. I know the arthritis can be treated, and it confuses me why the vets don't think he has it, but I haven't been there to talk with them and my parents just say "the vet said no." But the gagging is what really worries me. It's gotta be pretty miserable for him. And if there's some zebra that can be checked for, I know my parents wouldn't have a problem having it checked out, especially if it makes the gagging stop. My mom worries herself sick over that dog, so if you've got any ideas... let me have 'em.
Arthritis? And what's with the gagging?
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slvrwhispr
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Re: Arthritis? And what's with the gagging?
SW re arthritis - am sure you will get more expert advice than mine, but giving my dear Honey glucosamine and condroitin eased her old age pains a LOT and I think it gave her 5 extra years. From all the research I did and from my vet I think you have to give the combination of the 2. Most times I bought the CVS human brand and adjusted per my vet. But also used the doggy brand.
Re: Arthritis? And what's with the gagging?
Do you feel confident in Tyler's vet? If not, do see a new vet, preferrably one more experienced, even an ER vet if they have office hours (since they see alot of this). If the vet could refer to an orthopedic specialist, that would be even better.
A new xray might be in order, since changes can occur at any time. Usually, arthritis can be seen on xrays, but not all the time, and as it progresses, it can be seen even moreso.
Depending on the last bloodwork done, if it's been over 6 months ago, get it done again, since senior pets should have this done twice a year. Pay special attention to bone, heart, lungs, kidneys, bladder (in addition to xrays). An ECG might also be in order to check heart function (remember, the heart's function can change and progress suddenly)
If you can, record on a camcorder when he gags, and show it to the vet. Also discuss his diet, it's a long shot, but maybe he's not utilizing the protein (or maybe too much) and other nutrients in the diet. Palpation and thorough exam should be done again on the head/throat/neck areas to rule out esophageal problems, esophageal stricture, collapsed trachea, oral problems, or pain somewhere. If the gagging has been going on for two years and the vet can't explain it, see a new vet. Same applies for the potential arthritis, a thorough exam, reflex testing, pain testing, nerve testing, and xray, all non-evasive simple tests.
Ask the vet about Cosequin for Dogs. Easy to give in food.
Let us know what your parents decide, but ultimately it sounds like they need to see a new, more experienced vet.
A new xray might be in order, since changes can occur at any time. Usually, arthritis can be seen on xrays, but not all the time, and as it progresses, it can be seen even moreso.
Depending on the last bloodwork done, if it's been over 6 months ago, get it done again, since senior pets should have this done twice a year. Pay special attention to bone, heart, lungs, kidneys, bladder (in addition to xrays). An ECG might also be in order to check heart function (remember, the heart's function can change and progress suddenly)
If you can, record on a camcorder when he gags, and show it to the vet. Also discuss his diet, it's a long shot, but maybe he's not utilizing the protein (or maybe too much) and other nutrients in the diet. Palpation and thorough exam should be done again on the head/throat/neck areas to rule out esophageal problems, esophageal stricture, collapsed trachea, oral problems, or pain somewhere. If the gagging has been going on for two years and the vet can't explain it, see a new vet. Same applies for the potential arthritis, a thorough exam, reflex testing, pain testing, nerve testing, and xray, all non-evasive simple tests.
Ask the vet about Cosequin for Dogs. Easy to give in food.
Let us know what your parents decide, but ultimately it sounds like they need to see a new, more experienced vet.
..........Traci
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slvrwhispr
- Posts: 1366
- Joined: Tue May 27, 2003 11:48 pm
- Location: Canton, MI
- Contact:
Re: Arthritis? And what's with the gagging?
The primary vet is an awesome vet; he's helped Tyler through a lot of problems in the past, including a nasty skin infection and a whole lot of those fatty tumors. They took him to another vet for a second opinion, and they said a lot of the same. Bloodwork is recent as of just a few weeks ago because he went down to the basement and couldn't get back up. My mom had to carry him up the stairs, and she isn't strong enough to do that very often. They've baby-gated the basement since then. Vet thought maybe his vision was going and the stairs spooked him, but a vision test was fine, too.
Do you think we could talk to the vet about the arthritis treatment even without signs showing up on xrays? If I know my dog (and I do) half the problem is that he's always so excited to go "bye bye car" as my mother so charmingly calls it that he acts like a healthy puppy around the vet. Would he prescribe the drugs without seeing evidence on an xray? Is that responsible?
My parents have no video camera, but I've got video capabilities on my camera, so maybe I'll see what I can capture on video while I'm up there for the holidays.
Do you think we could talk to the vet about the arthritis treatment even without signs showing up on xrays? If I know my dog (and I do) half the problem is that he's always so excited to go "bye bye car" as my mother so charmingly calls it that he acts like a healthy puppy around the vet. Would he prescribe the drugs without seeing evidence on an xray? Is that responsible?
My parents have no video camera, but I've got video capabilities on my camera, so maybe I'll see what I can capture on video while I'm up there for the holidays.
Re: Arthritis? And what's with the gagging?
Well, the gagging is concerning, so that requires a new exam. Remember that just because more than one vet has examined Tyler, doesn't mean a more experienced vet won't pick up on something they've missed.
The vet can "prescribe" Cosequin without evidence on xray, and they may already have it at the clinic, it's based on a recommendation, not necessarily prescription, because Cosequin is not a controlled drug, it's a neutraceutical. If they don't have it, you can order it online, but choose the online site carefully, and make sure it's the exact brand your vet recommends because there are hundreds of others out there that aren't as they seem (adulterated, contain little or no actual ingredients claimed, or too much of one and not enough of the other, or added ingredients that are totally unnecessary). I always recommend the Cosequin because it's properly balanced and virtually the only manufacturer for chondroitin/glucosamine who has put it through extensive testing and trials. Ultimately, you want a vet who is going to rule out all causes of pain or stiffness prior to using anything.
Something is amiss if he goes down the stairs but doesn't go up the stairs, he either has weakened hind quarters/muscles or arthritis, or possibly even lumbar pain, ask the vet about that. (think of it as follows, it's easy for us to run down stairs or run downhill, but not so easy going up, if we struggle, it's because we are weak somewhere, in pain, or, you get the picture...)
The vet can "prescribe" Cosequin without evidence on xray, and they may already have it at the clinic, it's based on a recommendation, not necessarily prescription, because Cosequin is not a controlled drug, it's a neutraceutical. If they don't have it, you can order it online, but choose the online site carefully, and make sure it's the exact brand your vet recommends because there are hundreds of others out there that aren't as they seem (adulterated, contain little or no actual ingredients claimed, or too much of one and not enough of the other, or added ingredients that are totally unnecessary). I always recommend the Cosequin because it's properly balanced and virtually the only manufacturer for chondroitin/glucosamine who has put it through extensive testing and trials. Ultimately, you want a vet who is going to rule out all causes of pain or stiffness prior to using anything.
Something is amiss if he goes down the stairs but doesn't go up the stairs, he either has weakened hind quarters/muscles or arthritis, or possibly even lumbar pain, ask the vet about that. (think of it as follows, it's easy for us to run down stairs or run downhill, but not so easy going up, if we struggle, it's because we are weak somewhere, in pain, or, you get the picture...)
..........Traci