4 week old kittens Questions and help please

[Traci]

I'm responding to what you write in your posts, if ants are getting inside, they have an ENTRY to do so, it's that simple. I never implied anything, as a matter of fact, I'm asking questions.

Please don't go out and buy Diatomaceous earth just in spite of what I've said and warned about, that's the "tone" I'm getting from you. But, I digress, I spent a considerable amount of time and effort answering your original questions. I'm only sorry if I did that in vain.

[Bama]

No "tone", just being gracious to a suggestion. I said I'd research it, no commitment in that.

The kittens are purring! They just stare at me and rub against my fingers when I hold them. They run after me or the girls like little puppies when we call them. It seems like they are already bigger.

[Bama]

Hi...can I ask some more questions?

I found this site which recommends no vaccines and a raw food diet(says they cause cancer, and with the human vaccines in the news it makes me wonder). Does it sound believable to you? I would like to be as natural as possible but not risk anybody's health. http://www.felineinstincts.com/Felinecr ... eases.html

One of the kittens has developed a bald spot right above his right eye all the way to his ear...it's always been thin but now there is no hair at all and it seems to be spreading. Is this a disease? Should there be testing?

How do you discipline a kitten that bites? I read somewhere to place them on their side in a reprimanding manner, like their mother would, I've tried it and it does distract them...

Do you prefer Frontline or Advantage or are they about the same (other than the tick control in one)?

Do you HAVE to clip their nails?

Is catnip a good thing?

Soft or hard carrier?

I'm going back to the vet tomorrow and trying to prepare for the visit so I guess I am wondering what all to ask, what to do. I need to bring up the grooming/shampoo/anesthesia issues too. I don't want to forget or leave anything out.

THANKS!

[Traci]

I found this site which recommends no vaccines and a raw food diet(says they cause cancer, and with the human vaccines in the news it makes me wonder). Does it sound believable to you? I would like to be as natural as possible but not risk anybody's health. http://www.felineinstincts.com/Felinecr ... eases.html

That link is amoung thousands of pet sites that propogate fear-mongering, and gross misinformation.

Without vaccinations, disease is rampant.

There is not one shred of credible evidence that raw food has any benefits over a commercial diet, and as a matter of fact, there are numerous reasons why raw food should NOT be fed to pets, particularly parasitic infection and deadly bacteria. Another crucial point is that raw foods cannot be adequately formed or supplemented with proper vitamins and minerals and nutrient content to form a balanced diet.

Please see this link to learn how to think critically and examine credible vs non-credible information, particularly internet information, and "alternative, natural" hyped claims.

What are you referring to regarding "with the human vaccines in the news it makes me wonder" ?

One of the kittens has developed a bald spot right above his right eye all the way to his ear...it's always been thin but now there is no hair at all and it seems to be spreading. Is this a disease? Should there be testing?

It could be anything from a food allergy or deficiency to ear mites to ringworm to flea allergy dermatitis. Your vet will examine tomorrow, and may need to do a skin scrape and/or culture to rule out ringworm, fungal disease, or flea allergy dermatitis. If ringworm, you're going to have a whole new problem, since this is a fast spreading condition, will affect all the pets in your home and you'll need to treat them all, and be diligent about disinfection measures in the home to prevent the spread (your vet will advise you). Ringworm treatment can be lengthy (sometimes upwards of 4 weeks to 4 months to treat), so you will have to follow your vet's instructions carefully and re-culture periodically to ensure it is eradicated. Assuming of course, ringworm is confirmed.

What are you feeding them now? Canned or dry? What brand? Are each of them gaining weight properly, are they having normal urination and defecation habits now?

How do you discipline a kitten that bites? I read somewhere to place them on their side in a reprimanding manner, like their mother would, I've tried it and it does distract them...

No, that's not what to do. Use a squirt bottle filled with water, and squirt once (not in the face), combined with a stern vocal "NO". In young kittens, it is natural to bite since they are associating the behavior with instinct (chase prey, bite, etc). You can try using cotton gloves or mittens when playing, but best to divert their attention to something else directly, like a stuffed animal to play with or other toys that divert their attention away from biting your hand.

Do you prefer Frontline or Advantage or are they about the same (other than the tick control in one)?

Advantage for Cats and Frontline for Cats carry equal margin of effectiveness. Your vet can help you choose the product that is most beneficial to your cats. However, if there is no evidence of flea or flea bites or flea dander, etc, then you don't necessarily have to treat with a flea product, but if you have dogs who have fleas, then it would be prudent to keep the cats on a proper safe flea control. Do NOT use anything other than Advantage or Frontline or a product your vet recommends and sells. If you buy online or through a petstore, you void the manufacturer's gaurantee should the product fail or cause a reaction etc. OTC flea and deworming products are deadly to cats, they contain permethrins and dangerous ingredients that kill hundreds of cats every year. See Here and Here.

Ideally, keeping cats indoors virtually eliminates the need for flea protection.

Do you HAVE to clip their nails?

No. But indoor cats may need to have their nails trimmed to prevent damage from scratching on furniture etc, unless you provide them with scratching posts and properly train them not to scratch furniture.

Is catnip a good thing?

As long as it is a reputable source/brand, and doesn't contain sharp stems and is given judiciously (like once or twice a week, a pinch or so at a time). Don't buy packages that seem generic or from online. I recommend Cosmic Catnip. Young kittens will not be interested in catnip until at least 2 or 3 months of age.

Soft or hard carrier?

Hard carriers are more sturdy and safer when mainly used as transport (i.e., to the vet). If one travelled extensively however (via airline), soft carriers are preferred, and mainly required by the airline's regulations.

[Bama]

Thanks for everything.

I'm hearing a lot about people refusing to vaccinate their children b/c of autism. That's what I was referring to...also a lot of people switching to raw food diets for themselves and their pets. I am trying to "go green" as much as possible so thought I'd ask, just in case this is the "wave of the future". Personally, already prepared food is just a whole lot easier for me so I'm glad that you aren't saying it's bad for them. The kittens are eating Science Diet right now, just b/c we got freebies at the vet's last week. I mix a little dry with the wet to moisten it. I leave out some dry (not moistened) for inbetween meals, meals are twice a day but they seem to be hungry all of the time. The biggest one weighed 13 oz. last week, now all are over 1 lb. I'm open to suggestions on food...I think you already recommended one but I'll have to go back and find it. I don't mean to waste your time with repetition.

They all have ringworm, as well as us. I got conofite lotion for the cats, lotrimin for people. How can I keep the ringworm from spreading...do I have to wash clothes, bedding, etc. in any special manner?

A water gun is what the vet recommended for biting too so I'll have to raid the toy boxes. They are just playful and chewing on anything that moves, not very hard at all, but I'd like to nip it in the bud. Same thing for climbing. I'm not a tree!

They got their shots and wormings too so I think all is caught up. Next appt. is in 3 weeks.

The vet recommended Revolution. I haven't bought any yet. I have to go back this afternoon to pick up my dog (being treated for ear infection and bathed) so should I switch brands?

I was thinking hard carrier too but I see so many people using the soft ones I thought I'd throw that question in the mix too. What's one more? That's what I said when we brought 4 kittens home! LOL!

I'll read your link when I can, thanks for posting it. We just got home and are heading back out in :30 so I'm short on time right now.

Thanks once again for all the info! I'd name a cat after you but my name's Tracy too so that might be a little confusing!!

[Traci]

The anti-vaccination people have erroneously claimed that thimerosal in vaccines causes autism. This is, and has been proved, countless of times, to be completely false. I won't get into that subject here, but rest assured, vaccines do NOT cause autism in children.

As for pet vaccines, an adjuvanted component is thought to be a potential cause, but newer vaccines manufacturered now, greatly lower this risk. Vaccination location on the body and health status of the cat also determine the risk factor (example, vaccines are NOT to be given between the should blade). See more Here.

Take all things you see and read on the net with a HUGE grain of salt when it concerns pet health. Then learn how to evaluate that information with a critical eye, and refer to legitimate information, studies, research etc as opposed to hype, anecdotes or testimonials, none of which are evidence-based.

Did your vet give you "kitten-packs"? These are little complimentary bags that contain samples of kitten food, care guides, a feeding scoop, etc). Can you tell me if the Hill's food sample was actually Hill's KITTEN food, and not adult food? Kitten food is crucial for growing and developing kittens, they need added nutrients moreso than adult cats.

Iams canned Kitten food is what most of us here recommend for young kittens. At around 6-8 weeks of age, MOST kittens will eat dry food, but you should not assume they will or can. They also have to be fed several times a day, as explained earlier, because they expend a LOT of energy and need to replenish that energy several times a day. Twice a day is truly not enough, they should be fed 3 or 4 times a day.

Did the vet do a culture to confirm ringworm? This CANNOT be diagnosed without a culture! (a woods lamp is NOT confirmative).

Yes, you must wash your bedding, or your children's bedding if the pets sleep with them (wash bedding in bleach water in the washing machine on hot water), and you must also mop all porous surfaces like floors, countertops, surfaces that can be cleaned with a solution of bleach and water on a daily basis. (1 part bleach to 32 parts water). The litterboxes also need to be cleaned with the bleach and water solution DAILY. Any pet beds or blankets used for the pets must also be washed in the washing machine daily. Vacuuming is also important, you have to vaccum rugs and furniture DAILY to help prevent the spores from spreading in the environment.

The kittens should be seperated in a seperate room or area from the other cats and the dog(s) to prevent spread to them. If you allowed contact between the kittens and the other pets prior to ringworm diagnosis, chances are, your other pets are at risk for getting it too, and they will also need to be treated (talk to your vet)

I would only recommend Revolution for cats allowed outdoors. Revolution covers fleas and heartworm, (transmission by mosquitos), but if the cats are indoors, they shouldn't need anything at all (unless again, the dog brings in fleas). If fleas are the only problem, I'd suggest Advantage for Cats or Frontline for Cats, but you can talk to your vet about this, once you've established their risk factors (i.e., risk factors are highest when allowed outdoors, you have water, ponds, river, stream or lake near your home or are in a humid area, mosquitos. Cats get heartworm too, so don't forget that. This is only one important reason we strongly advocate indoors for cats.

[Bama]

Yes to the kitten packs. They are labeled "kitten". I'm still doing mainly canned with some moist dry but it would be a whole lot easier (and cleaner, they look pretty funny after they dig into the bowl of canned food , although I'm amazed that they already are pretty intent on cleaning up afterward) if they would just learn to love the dry already.

No culture was done, she just flipped them over, pointed out spots that she said was ringworm, and gave me a Rx. Since we all have ringworm, I think it's pretty safe to say the kittens do too. Should I insist on a culture anyway? Should I bathe the kittens before I treat them, at least before the first dose? We just walked in the door, haven't eaten or anything yet, so I haven't treated anybody but will shortly.

The kittens have always been away from the other animals, the cats aren't fond of them at all, so I guess that is a blessing in disguise.

They talked me into the Revolution (buy 6 tubes get 1 free) with the all in one treatment for fleas, ticks, and heartworm. $80 every other month will not be feasible though so I'm not sure what we will do when this runs out. In a way I feel like I have bitten off more than I can chew but I also feel that I have to MAKE it work as long as possible. We saw a lot of ads for free kittens at the vet (with notes that they would go to the shelter if homes weren't found) so I don't want those kittens to lose a home just to find one for these kittens who already have a home but I'd still like to find homes for my kittens so that 1) they get the care they need that I might not be able to afford long term and 2) I can try to rescue some more feral kittens.

My mother will help neuter them...with her 1040 form I can get them all neutered for $10 a piece. I will definitely do that before I place them anywhere.

The girls in the vet's office said that the other kitten (that I gave to a woman last week) hasn't been back in so please think good thoughts for "Princess Jaguar". I wish I had a picture to post. She was really striking and with a sweet personality, especially considering we were the first people she had ever been around.

I did ask if they were taking applications and they always are. Maybe I'll apply in the fall after dd4 starts PreK. If you work there, you get a discount.

[Traci]

Do NOT bathe the kittens.

Find a new vet, as stated earlier, one CANNOT diagnose without a culture! Vets who prescribe meds and topicals for ringworm on assumptions without a culture don't deserve your business or money!

Were you and the other family members specifically diagnosed by your human physician? If not, you need to, otherwise, how do you know you have ringworm and not something else? If you have it, and your kids have it and they transfer it to neighbor kids or school kids, that's not a good thing! (you too can transfer it to others)

Revolution must NOT be applied to kittens under 8 weeks of age, you stated once they were 4 weeks old, then the vet estimated them at 6 weeks old, so, the vet should have told you that. Flea medication manufacturers take great pains to label their products accordingly and expect vets and pet owners to use them properly, based on age and weight and health status of the pet. If you're going to start applying conofite lotion, then Revolution, you may be risking them for seriouis skin reactions, the vet should have thought of that.

PLEASE, understand these kittens are tiny and quite young, and flea medications must be used cautiously in young kittens, no matter what the product is. Please also understand their dietary needs. It is beginning to sound like you want more of a convenience to feed dry, but they may not be ready for dry at this point, there is nothing wrong with canned Iams kitten food, most kittens love this food, and will eat it eagerly, it is better for them as their teeth begin to come in, dry food isn't proper at certain ages.

[Bama]

Ok, I won't bathe the kittens. I forgot to ask the vet that one so now I know. Another myth from the internet stated to bathe them first and try to get the scaly stuff off. They do get poo stuck all over their tummies and tails and feet though, how do I keep them clean? They eventually bathe it all off themselves but is that very hygienic? That's how we all got ringworm.

I was guesstimating 4 weeks b/c I have no clue, have never had a kitten this small before and went by whatever info I could find on the internet before I went to the vet, she concluded they were 6 weeks old last Tuesday, so they should be about 7-1/2 weeks now.

Yes, I was told not to give the Revolution until 8 weeks of age but they did go ahead and sell it to me since I won't be back for 3 weeks. I'm holding onto it for another week, thanks for the reminder though. I had so many questions in my head that I'm forgetting a lot of the info I've been fed today and was going to give it to them tonight. I'll go ahead and write a date on the package so I don't slip up. They also confirmed that buying medications from people other than a vet's office was very fishy and totally unsupported by the companies who manufacture the drugs...so if you buy off the www, give it to your pet, your pet contracts whatever illness anyway, you have no recourse so why not be safe to begin with? Plus it's actually cheaper at the vet, according to the staff, I haven't checked the price personally. No, I have never actually bought any from the internet but that Betty White commercial was very convincing so I had thought about it.

Yes, my kids and I were dx and given an rx for ringworm.

Yes, I would like the food to be more convenient, less messy, and less odorous, but I am feeding the canned for as long as necessary.

Were you and the other family members specifically diagnosed by your human physician?

That just reads SO funny! I won't make a joke b/c we don't share the same sense of humor but there are so many responses to that! LOL!! Thanks for the laugh! Yep, we've been in animal and human doctor offices ALL day long! *sigh* It's good to be home!!

[Traci]

Where are they eliminating? Are they using a litterbox? Are you training them to do so? They should not be getting feces on themselves, and if they are, then it's because they are in cramped quarters, eliminating in a confined space, or that space isn't being kept clean. It's up to you to ensure their environment (feeding area, sleeping area, play/exercise area) is safe and clean. If they are using a litterbox, it needs to be scooped frequently during the day. Also remove food residue from their fur directly after each feeding.

Use a damp moistened cloth with only warm water to gently remove feces from their fur. If the residue is that bad, then rinse them only with lukewarm warm water, then dry them off completely, since young kittens can get chilled quite easily. Do not rub hard with a towel, pat dry and use a warmed towel.

I asked about your physician because many owners make assumptions about ringworm, and/or treat their pets for ringworm when in fact, ringworm isn't even present but something else entirely. And I asked because if you by chance, had not been seen by your physician, did in fact have ringworm and didn't know it, then you and your family could infect others.