you might be able to do that...be sure to treat the floor beneath the carpet before replacing...
a neat flooring option we have looked at is Fiberfloor by Tarkett
http://www.tarkett-floors.com/floors/si ... /offer.asp
especially in the laundry area...if the machine overflows or you have a water problem, you can just lift the Fiberfloor, lay it outside to dry out, dry the inside floor, and bring the Fiberfloor back in and lay it down again!!
You might decide that you like some of the patterns enough to replace the rest of the carpeted area as well...
Please help- desparate- peeing kitty- very long post- sorry
Re: Please help- desparate- peeing kitty- very long post- so
I'm appalled at the two vets and they should be thoroughly ashamed of themselves. This is a classic case and they both KNEW that bloodwork and urinalysis were paramount to accurate diagnosis.
Step one, get kitty to a new, more experienced vet, RIGHT AWAY. If you have to travel to another town, do so, so that you have an option for a feline-only vet, or of course, a vet who is more experienced, committed to your cat and you.
Get full urinalysis and full bloodwork done, including thyroid function testing. He could have an underlying health problem that is causing pain and discomfort which is causing the behavior. It might be a urinary tract issue, or it could be some other underlying health condition, or it could be both, which occur often when stress exacerbates one or the other.
Step two, reduce the stress in the environment. I have to ask, why are you compelled to get rid of him so quickly when you indicate the behavior started when you got the lab? I would have looked into that further, and instead, addressed the lab and taught him to respect your cat and his boundaries. Labs are very high strung, energetic, rambunctious and do not often make good companions for cats. I know very few cats who appreciate labs, this mix just does not mix well. Yes, one can train their dogs to respect the cats, but if they are not comitted to training and putting the cat's needs a priority, then there's going to be problems.
The hiding and withdrawal were red flags something wasn't right. I suspect the dog or both dogs intimidated your kitty more than you let on or perhaps more than you are aware of. If you knew kitty didn't like the lab or was hiding, you should have addressed that THEN.
I can understand why the vets wouldn't prescribe drugs, although due to their prior negligence, they didn't do anything anyway. Drugs are not a cure-all, and they need to be approached cautiously in cats. They are often prescribed to placate the OWNER, and not the pet. Tri-cyclic antidepressants are not without risks, and can either heavily sedate the cat, or cause aggression, exciteability, behavior changes, and make the pet more miserable than before. These medications can also leave ill effects on health in the long term. You know the risks when humans are on these meds, those risks are magnified when pets are on them. I never encourage owners to opt for drugs for behavioral issues without a full understanding, and without attempting behavioral modifications first. It doesn't sound like you attempted any behavioral modifications at all. Perhaps you didn't know how, and obvious your vets didn't tell you anything.
Behavioral modification needs to be approached before even considering drugs. Only urinalysis, complete bloodwork to detect hidden disease should be your first step, and if nothing is detected, then behavioral modification comes next.
There seems to be a high amount of stress in the environment.
The dogs: You didn't say much about the retriever, but is there anything going on with that one? Do the dogs chase kitty? Do they eat his food? Do they sleep on kitty's bedding? Do they linger around his litterboxes? Have they ever intimidated kitty or rough-housed with him? Have they taken kitty's toys or chewed them or destroyed them? Do they interfere when kitty wants your attention? Do they interfere when kitty is playing, resting, sleeping, or during kitty's other routines? These are only a FEW of the things you need to be watching out for, because you are obviously aware your kitty isn't happy with one of the dogs.
What are you and hubby doing to encourage bonding, playtime activities, and one-on-one with your kitty? What space have you created for him where he feels totally comfortable without the dogs interfering? How much time do you devote to him every day? What activities and playtime do you actively engage yourselves with him?
Where is he "penned up at night"? Stop penning him up, and simply close your bedroom door at night. Cats cannot be confined at night, they are nocturnal and you can't change their instinct.
Forget the thought of euthanasia, adoption, putting him in the garage, or giving him to a friend or out in the country with a barn etc. Your vet(s) were idiots for suggesting this and planting the notion into your head, and you have to be more comitted to your kitty. You adopted him for life and he is soley dependent upon YOU to get this problem resolved. Without knowing what methods if any, you have tried previously toward behavior modification, it's nearly impossible to advise tips at this point, so let's advise a new vet, urinalysis, bloodwork etc NOW, and if kitty doesn't have health problems, then we can address the behavior, one thing at a time. I'd love to devote time to this, but should be addressed one thing at a time, in steps. You can't change anything overnight and there are years of damage done here (not saying that's your fault)..but the first step is getting a qualified and committed vet to address health and diagnostics, then we can help address the behavior and stresses in the home.
Don't give up on your kitty, we've all been frustrated at times over one thing or another, but ultimately, he's depending on you to help him, and we're here to help you do that.
In the immediate sense, don't worry about the carpets at this point, worry about kitty's health and new evaluation with a new vet first.
Step one, get kitty to a new, more experienced vet, RIGHT AWAY. If you have to travel to another town, do so, so that you have an option for a feline-only vet, or of course, a vet who is more experienced, committed to your cat and you.
Get full urinalysis and full bloodwork done, including thyroid function testing. He could have an underlying health problem that is causing pain and discomfort which is causing the behavior. It might be a urinary tract issue, or it could be some other underlying health condition, or it could be both, which occur often when stress exacerbates one or the other.
Step two, reduce the stress in the environment. I have to ask, why are you compelled to get rid of him so quickly when you indicate the behavior started when you got the lab? I would have looked into that further, and instead, addressed the lab and taught him to respect your cat and his boundaries. Labs are very high strung, energetic, rambunctious and do not often make good companions for cats. I know very few cats who appreciate labs, this mix just does not mix well. Yes, one can train their dogs to respect the cats, but if they are not comitted to training and putting the cat's needs a priority, then there's going to be problems.
The hiding and withdrawal were red flags something wasn't right. I suspect the dog or both dogs intimidated your kitty more than you let on or perhaps more than you are aware of. If you knew kitty didn't like the lab or was hiding, you should have addressed that THEN.
I can understand why the vets wouldn't prescribe drugs, although due to their prior negligence, they didn't do anything anyway. Drugs are not a cure-all, and they need to be approached cautiously in cats. They are often prescribed to placate the OWNER, and not the pet. Tri-cyclic antidepressants are not without risks, and can either heavily sedate the cat, or cause aggression, exciteability, behavior changes, and make the pet more miserable than before. These medications can also leave ill effects on health in the long term. You know the risks when humans are on these meds, those risks are magnified when pets are on them. I never encourage owners to opt for drugs for behavioral issues without a full understanding, and without attempting behavioral modifications first. It doesn't sound like you attempted any behavioral modifications at all. Perhaps you didn't know how, and obvious your vets didn't tell you anything.
Behavioral modification needs to be approached before even considering drugs. Only urinalysis, complete bloodwork to detect hidden disease should be your first step, and if nothing is detected, then behavioral modification comes next.
There seems to be a high amount of stress in the environment.
The dogs: You didn't say much about the retriever, but is there anything going on with that one? Do the dogs chase kitty? Do they eat his food? Do they sleep on kitty's bedding? Do they linger around his litterboxes? Have they ever intimidated kitty or rough-housed with him? Have they taken kitty's toys or chewed them or destroyed them? Do they interfere when kitty wants your attention? Do they interfere when kitty is playing, resting, sleeping, or during kitty's other routines? These are only a FEW of the things you need to be watching out for, because you are obviously aware your kitty isn't happy with one of the dogs.
What are you and hubby doing to encourage bonding, playtime activities, and one-on-one with your kitty? What space have you created for him where he feels totally comfortable without the dogs interfering? How much time do you devote to him every day? What activities and playtime do you actively engage yourselves with him?
Where is he "penned up at night"? Stop penning him up, and simply close your bedroom door at night. Cats cannot be confined at night, they are nocturnal and you can't change their instinct.
Forget the thought of euthanasia, adoption, putting him in the garage, or giving him to a friend or out in the country with a barn etc. Your vet(s) were idiots for suggesting this and planting the notion into your head, and you have to be more comitted to your kitty. You adopted him for life and he is soley dependent upon YOU to get this problem resolved. Without knowing what methods if any, you have tried previously toward behavior modification, it's nearly impossible to advise tips at this point, so let's advise a new vet, urinalysis, bloodwork etc NOW, and if kitty doesn't have health problems, then we can address the behavior, one thing at a time. I'd love to devote time to this, but should be addressed one thing at a time, in steps. You can't change anything overnight and there are years of damage done here (not saying that's your fault)..but the first step is getting a qualified and committed vet to address health and diagnostics, then we can help address the behavior and stresses in the home.
Don't give up on your kitty, we've all been frustrated at times over one thing or another, but ultimately, he's depending on you to help him, and we're here to help you do that.
In the immediate sense, don't worry about the carpets at this point, worry about kitty's health and new evaluation with a new vet first.
..........Traci
-
animalcrazy
- Posts: 8
- Joined: Mon Dec 10, 2007 8:34 pm
Wow...with all due respect I feel pretty put off and attacked by that last post. I came here for HELP, not a personal attack. Actually, we have both bent over backwards to help this cat. He has very protected time away from both dogs and the lab is ALWAYS supervised when even remotely around the cat. We are home nearly 24/7 and are constantly working with all 3 animals. For you to assume that we haven't tried behavioral modification is rude. I'm on this board because I have tried- for years since the first day I got him and he was aggressive the FIRST DAY and the way up to now. the medication was at the suggestion of the vet to stop him from biting people because those same people were being injured. the surest way to lose a cat is for him to bite someone else. i would surely be forced at that point to euthanize. this has been an ongoing aggresion problem for years that I have worked on, not just this week. i wouldn't be on a message board for a problem I've worked on for a short time. Give me a break.
The euthanasia was brought up recently by the last vet. NOT my opinion- I have cried endlessly and lost many nights of sleep trying to save this cat. I take pet ownership seriously, and in fact over the course of my life, have had good experiences raising many pets. I pride myself on being responsible, but unfortunately fell prey to some bad advice from an early vet re: both the declawing and the addition of another cat which was the worst choice. the declawing I feel was a major factor in all of his behaviors.
I do think you were very quick to be judgemental that of course it could never be a problem in the cat's personality or the fact it was declawed (again a procedure I now no longer agree with now that I am educated on the topic) but that it somehow was abuse or neglect. The cat has to be secured at night as when he bit my face, i nearly lost MY EYE due to infection. At the time I was sleeping and defenseless.... i don't think you'd be so quick to trust him if it were you.
To the poster recommending the fiber floor, thank you. It looks great.
No need to respond, I won't return.
The euthanasia was brought up recently by the last vet. NOT my opinion- I have cried endlessly and lost many nights of sleep trying to save this cat. I take pet ownership seriously, and in fact over the course of my life, have had good experiences raising many pets. I pride myself on being responsible, but unfortunately fell prey to some bad advice from an early vet re: both the declawing and the addition of another cat which was the worst choice. the declawing I feel was a major factor in all of his behaviors.
I do think you were very quick to be judgemental that of course it could never be a problem in the cat's personality or the fact it was declawed (again a procedure I now no longer agree with now that I am educated on the topic) but that it somehow was abuse or neglect. The cat has to be secured at night as when he bit my face, i nearly lost MY EYE due to infection. At the time I was sleeping and defenseless.... i don't think you'd be so quick to trust him if it were you.
To the poster recommending the fiber floor, thank you. It looks great.
No need to respond, I won't return.
Please re-read your first post, then your second post and then expect me to assume you tried behavioral modification. Tricyclic antidepressants, feliway and bach flower remedies (which are worthless, btw), are not behavioral modifications. You never once mentioned what you have tried within the environment to make his environment secure, happy, harmonious between the dogs. You never once mentioned what methods you've tried to keep the dogs from intimidating the cat.
Re-read your first post, and particularly this part:
And this:
And this:
And,
Who prescribed a urinary acidifier? The vet or you? This also should never have been given without having a urinalysis done! The use of urinary acidifiers can be extremely dangerous without having a proper diagnosis to warrant it's use. If for example, you use an acidifier with an already acidifying diet, you could be predisposing your cat to crystals, particularly oxalate crystals which are detrimental to the cat's health. If the vet prescribed this without a urinalysis, then he is negligent. If YOU gave it because someone other than a vet told you to, then they and you are negiligent because you didn't get a urinalysis to determine if an acidifyer was even necessary.
Had you provided more information in the beginning, I might not have been so quick to assume. But, you have several posts here and none indicate any method of behavioral modifications, none have indicated what steps you took to create harmony between the dogs and the cat, and none indicated what other methods you have tried to address the problem. Your kitty doesn't needs drugs, your kitty needs a committment from you to make his environment calm, peaceful, harmonious, safe.
I offered to help, because I understand not just your frustration, but because I understand the cat's stress and he deserves to be helped. I don't take lightly however, owners who want the easy way out and are only fixated on drugs. Had one or both the vets actually taken a different approach, performed subsequent urinalysis and other health profiles, and had they prescribed a drug combined with instructions for you regarding behavioral modifications, then this situation would be different. But none of that occured, which is why I offered to help to address each aspect of the problem. I've seen posts like yours numerous times, and more often than not, the owner wants reassured that it's ok to give up the cat, or that it's ok to euthanize, or that it's ok to simply be frustrated and do nothing....and when they are given thoughtful and meaningful advice, they don't want to hear it, they don't want to commit to the task. Please tell me how that's fair for the cat. You don't have to like me or my advice, but if you want help for your cat, you might want to reconsider and accept the advice. I'm offering to help your cat because HE deserves to be helped. There's alot of damage done here, and while it won't work out overnight, doesn't your kitty deserve that chance? Again, you adopted him for life, and he's depending soley on you to help him. You came here asking for help, do you expect help or not?
Re-read your first post, and particularly this part:
So, who's suggesting euthanasia? Did you think that it is your cat who is miserable? Have you ever tried to put yourself in his place and actually think what he feels? How difficult this is for HIM?animalcrazy wrote:Part of me says maybe he needs to be euthanized, part of me says give him to this friend I have with a heated cow barn so he can live there, and part of says keep trying. I love animals so much, I have a hard time giving up on him, but he's making our lives miserable.
And this:
You made no mention of any methods you've tried to create harmony between the dog(s) and the cat.animalcrazy wrote:Unfortunately, then we got a lab 2 years ago and ever since he spend 90% of his day hiding in the laundry room. He hates her and nothing we do helps.
And this:
Part of the problem is with you. You are wanting to take an easy way out with drugs, rather than address the problem within the environment for the cat. Vets have good reason NOT to prescribe drugs for some of these behaviors and they understand that more often than not, the drugs are to placate the owner rather than help the pet. Owners who don't or won't commit to the pet with behavioral modifications are the least likely to get drugs prescribed by the vet. Again, drugs are NOT behavioral modifications. In some extreme situations, drugs can accompany behavioral modification methods, but should NEVER be the sole treatment or expectation of a resolve. Just as in humans, whenever antidepressant medications are prescribed, it is under the premise that the patient also gets counselling, lifestyle changes, and works toward resolving the problem with the expectation the medications will at some point be ceased or decreased.animalcrazy wrote:I can't find a vet that will give me anti-psychotics to stop him, they say they don't work. Yet I cannot keep him if he's going to continue ruining my house. My husband is nearly to the point he's going to force him out. I love him, but he's never been a "real" pet...
And,
Again, these are ALL worthless unless you ALSO implement behavioral modification. Not withstanding, NONE of these drugs should ever have been approached without behavioral modification FIRST. These drugs are not without risks as I explained before. For people to assume they can just pop these pills into their pets and everything is just going to be rosy, are deluding themselves, and are not truly addressing the needs of the cat.animalcrazy wrote:I have tried Valium in the past, probably about 5 years ago, this didn't help the aggression and made him clumsy. Zoloft made him incontinent. Recntly I tried amitriptylline, but didn't really think it worked... And the urine acidifier, which didn't work at all. I think Feliway makes him pee MORE....
Who prescribed a urinary acidifier? The vet or you? This also should never have been given without having a urinalysis done! The use of urinary acidifiers can be extremely dangerous without having a proper diagnosis to warrant it's use. If for example, you use an acidifier with an already acidifying diet, you could be predisposing your cat to crystals, particularly oxalate crystals which are detrimental to the cat's health. If the vet prescribed this without a urinalysis, then he is negligent. If YOU gave it because someone other than a vet told you to, then they and you are negiligent because you didn't get a urinalysis to determine if an acidifyer was even necessary.
Had you provided more information in the beginning, I might not have been so quick to assume. But, you have several posts here and none indicate any method of behavioral modifications, none have indicated what steps you took to create harmony between the dogs and the cat, and none indicated what other methods you have tried to address the problem. Your kitty doesn't needs drugs, your kitty needs a committment from you to make his environment calm, peaceful, harmonious, safe.
I offered to help, because I understand not just your frustration, but because I understand the cat's stress and he deserves to be helped. I don't take lightly however, owners who want the easy way out and are only fixated on drugs. Had one or both the vets actually taken a different approach, performed subsequent urinalysis and other health profiles, and had they prescribed a drug combined with instructions for you regarding behavioral modifications, then this situation would be different. But none of that occured, which is why I offered to help to address each aspect of the problem. I've seen posts like yours numerous times, and more often than not, the owner wants reassured that it's ok to give up the cat, or that it's ok to euthanize, or that it's ok to simply be frustrated and do nothing....and when they are given thoughtful and meaningful advice, they don't want to hear it, they don't want to commit to the task. Please tell me how that's fair for the cat. You don't have to like me or my advice, but if you want help for your cat, you might want to reconsider and accept the advice. I'm offering to help your cat because HE deserves to be helped. There's alot of damage done here, and while it won't work out overnight, doesn't your kitty deserve that chance? Again, you adopted him for life, and he's depending soley on you to help him. You came here asking for help, do you expect help or not?
..........Traci