Question About Pupper & Three Kittens

[Shapeshifter]

I rescued three kittens from the side of the road and the vet estimated their age to be between 3 and 4 weeks. We gently introduced them to our pupper, Tori whose maternal instincts kicked in big time.

She wanted to clean them and the vet said it wouldn't hurt the kittens and is what she would do if she had puppies. She was a huge help keeping them clean. [Tori is part schnauzer and part shizt zhu [sp?] and is a true terrier. [terror LOL]]

Now that the kittens are a little bigger, I think she gets confused and thinks they are prey. So far she hasn't done any harm. While we were allowing her supervised access to the kitties, she's not allowed any contact with them at all now.

Are we doing the right thing? It might be my wishful thinking, but she may be losing interest in them.

Is there additional training we should be doing? We are continuing to insist on sit/wait and sit/stay?

My suspicion is this may pass after they grow some and are better able to protect themselves.

[MJ]

This really cries out for more details.

What exactly has the dog started to do that makes you think she's considering the kittens prey? I'm guessing from what you said that she hasn't harmed any of them yet, but you think she might? Definitely more details about what she's doing.

And on a side note, how are the kittens doing? Are you bottle feeding them? Yay for rescuing poor babies from the road.

[Shapeshifter]

The kitties are great. They have more than tripled their weight. They are approximately 9 weeks old, lap their formula from a dish and gobble their kibble. They've been wormed and had their 1st shots. The vet said for orphans, they are amazing. We got them a play tower and they are all over it.

What made us think Tori might be confused happened when all 6 of us were sitting on the couch. While Tori had been paying more attention to cleaning their bottoms, all of a sudden, she began baring her teeth and "mouthing" the kittens, i.e., as though she were going to try to pick up the kittens, but not using any pressure or actually hurting them.

It creeped us out so bad. We did not scold or punish the dog, we just removed the kittens and put them back in their room.

[JUDY S]

My lab has tried to pick up my cats by the scruff of the neck, just like she would her puppies, if she had ever had any, it didn't work and she has never tried it again. They also play together all the time, and she opens her mouth and gently mouths them. She is the one dog I am not worried will hurt my cats. Was there any growling involved? Does she stalk the cats at all? Did she seem wound up?

[MJ]

It would be hard to tell for sure without seeing it myself, but it does kind of sound like the dog just wanted to be motherly and pick the kittens up.

[Traci]

At 2 months of age, the kittens are TOO young to be handled in any way by a dog. Are you implying the dog is in fact, part terrier? If so, terriers have hunting instincts bred into them, and they should NOT be trusted with cats. Even though the dog might be a mixed breed, the terrier breed may be genetically recessive and you should never allow the dog and kittens alone together.

Even if the dog was trying to pick up a kitten with her mouth, dogs are not the same as cats with this method. A mother cat instinctually knows where to place her teeth/jaw, hence scruffing the kitten...a dog on the other hand, does not know this, and the teeth/jaw will almost always surround the kitten's neck, so NEVER ever allow any dog to do this!! Dogs also have powerful jaws and even if the dog was trying to be gentle, you should never assume the jaw won't clamp around a tiny young kitten's neck and harm them! Dogs also have bacteria in their mouths, you don't want transferring to an open wound, abrasion, on a kitten.

Do you plan to keep the kittens? If so, you need to start training the dog NOW to respect the kittens and to respect their boundaries, and to respect their belongings (food, toys, litterbox, sleeping areas). Never leave the dog alone with the kittens unsupervised, unattended.....even as the kittens grow and develop, they will always need to be protected even as they are adults, so train the dog NOW to respect them.

[MJ]

That's what I was waiting to hear. I don't really have much experience with dogs, so while I thought it sounded like it was trying to be motherly, I was waiting for the info about whether or not even motherly was okay. :P

I can definitely see how a dog could mean well and still accidentally hurt something that is too small/not puppy shaped.

[Shapeshifter]

I KNOW Tori is part terrier. I know she is a true hunter. The one time she caught a gopher, she didn't even harm it. She scared it into submission and we had to dispatch the gopher.

But that's why I turned to this board for information and advice. She was never unsupervised around the kittens and since this happened, she has not had any access to the kittens.

What I need is information, and maybe I need to seek out another forum, on how to train Tori to respect the kittens and leave them alone. We've had Tori for 3 years and the kittens for a about 5 weeks.
Adopting out Tori or the kittens is NOT an option.

Tell me if I need to go somewhere else.

[Traci]

No one said you had to adopt out any of them. We're simply saying that you should train your dog to respect the kittens at all times, especially since she is part terrier. Never assume anything, because any dog, no matter what the breed, can turn in an instant.

Post your question in the canine health forum, you might get answers there from those who own dogs AND cats, but if you're not sure how to train your dog, perhaps a professional trainer would be more helpful and useful for your situation.

[JUDY S]

What everyone is saying is that you can't be too careful. I have a rotti who has supervised time with my cats all the time. This summer she shocked me by killing a kitten she didn't know and all the kitten wanted to do was say hi. I never expected that from her and it still haunts me.

Traci, I am glad Meka hasn't tried to pick up the cats by the scruff again! I didn't realize she could unintentionally hurt them.