sick kitty- :(

[Traci]

I moved your new post into this thread, please keep all posts about your kitty in one thread, as it helps us to keep all information available without having to search multiple posts.

Posted: Tue Aug 28, 2007 9:51 am Post subject: more on sick kitty.....
Hi again - more on todays update:

I forgot to mention that Karma's vomit this morning - the strange color, don't know if it was the meds, or her other organs may be started to fail...
it was yellow/brown, but when i went to wipe it up w/washcloth off the floor, it appeard brightish' yellow on the cloth.
I think I had read that this is not good, this color....possibly liver damage can happen when they don't eat...
thanks,
Beth
_________________
Beth

[Traci]

It is most likely bile and probably due to an acidity in the stomach because she hasn't eaten and the only thing in her stomach is medication and water. In any event, you want to avoid more vomiting. If she isn't jaundiced or severely dehydrated, chances are her liver is not terribly affected yet, but you do have that risk.

Personally, I think you should consider hospitalizing her so she can be on a regular maintenance of fluids, and so the vet can monitor her urine output, and her symptoms and so that he can get her medications administered effectively. Ask for a quote and ask about payment arrangements. Most vets are willing to make payment arrangements (i.e., post-dated checks) as long as you can at least make an appropriate down payment. The stress of taking her back and forth to the vets is not good for her, as stress can exacerbate the symptoms and prevent healing. Again, it is not helping her if you can't get her medication administered or if she's only going to vomit it up. At this point, she should only have an antibiotic and food, in the hospital setting, the vet can tempt her to eat on a more regulated schedule, and with fluids administration this might pick up her appetite. Yes, there is a risk of liver problems if she is not eating, and any cat who does not eat sufficiently within 3 days is at increased risk. Fluids support can also help keep the liver functioning properly and dehydration at bay. Dehydration is bad on the liver and kidneys so it's time this is prevented NOW.

[KJL07]

Hi Traci,
You will be happy to know that I just admitted my Karma kitty to a local cat hospital a few hours ago. They will treat her for 2 days w/fluids to keep her hydrated and try to flush the stone; IV, catherize, in arm- which is the only way to do it on her... they said. Also, they will medicate and feed her, and do ultra-sound of other kidney to make sure its ok. Do you think they could do an ultra sound on the uterer stone - to possibly look at the size - to determine if it could cause damage-if they do have luck flushing it out?

Thanks for all your advice and keeping me in-check w/the time urgency, I was losing my grip a little over the last several days and didn't know what to do for my poor little girl. I know it seemed like i was acting slow w/my decisions, but I have to watch my budget, and can't miss too much more work! Ugh. Its hard being a good mother! ... But this will hopefully bring a better outcome now. I haven't taken care of a sick pet before, can you tell?

also, the vet mentioned at the hospital she will feed her w/the wet prescribed food - i think she said w/syringe? could I have heard her right, what if karma chokes/vomits, because she truly hates wet food? I told the vet that she can't stand it and has never eaten it before; but I guess we have try anything at this point, yes?
I thought I had read on your site - to never force-feed like that... I didn't get this part clear w/her - I will call back to clarify this tonight.
thanks so much,
Beth

[Traci]

If they are going to do an ultrasound, then yes, it would be feasible to check the bladder and urethra, and yes, sometimes, the stone can be located. Call them and ask them if they are actually going to do an ultrasound and what they will be checking. I would also suggest asking them to check for any other inflammatory condition that may or may not be related. (i.e., GI tract inflammation or obstruction)

Did the vet say syringe or feeding tube? In the clinic, sometimes forced-feeding via syringe can help encourage the cat to eat on her own, and/or to ensure she is actually getting nutritional support when she will not eat on her own. A feeding tube can also be used in extreme cases, but this is usually reserved for those cats whom depend on nutritional support for survival (emergency situations).

If you've read my comments on the forums about forced-feeding, I was either referring to treatment for hepatic lipidosis or advising against using a syringe for tiny young kittens (not to give kitten formula via syringe as there is potential risk for fatal aspiration). Forced-feeding using syringes are stressful on any cat, and must be done properly for the condition warranting it: the food must be mixed with water so that it can be administered properly through the syringe, the feeding must be done very slowly to prevent gagging or vomiting and to allow the cat to swallow after each small amount, and usually feedings must be followed with a few cc's of water to ensure proper hydration support. In hepatic lipidosis, for example, depending on the severity of the case, forced-feeding at home by the owner is seldom effective because the cat is stressed, or the owner misses a scheduled feeding, or gagging and vomiting occur and the cat doesn't get his/her required amounts of food, etc. In these situations, it is best to consider a surgically placed feeding tube (PEG-tube).

As for your vet's intention on syringe feeding Karma in the hospital, she intends to do this properly and intermittently, to encourage her to eat on her own. Only small amounts are given at a time and she will be observed for nausea or vomiting, etc. If it is determined that her liver might be compromised, then she may consider a feeding tube placement, there are different types of feeding tubes and they are considered based on the cat's condition, candidacy for anesthesia to place the tube, the necessity or duration of a feeding tube, etc. A naso-gastric tube may not require anesthesia, for example. I'm sure your vet will attempt to give Karma a couple different varieties of food to encourage her to eat on her own first before even considering a feeding tube etc.

Do make sure to tell your vet about Karma's preference in food. If she does not like any canned food at all, make sure the vet is aware of that, and ask her to attempt to try dry foods first. However, there are several canned foods your vet has that can be attempted and might actually be palatable to Karma, the important thing is that she is getting vital nutrition and able to keep it down without nausea, vomiting, and is able to digest it properly, etc.

[KJL07]

thanks Traci - I haven't heard yet of karma's latest status today, but will let you know when I do.
btw, I wouldn't have been able to get thru this ordeal without you! Really!

talk w/you soon.
Beth

[KJL07]

Hi Traci - update on Karma:
I can bring her home tonight. she is doing better, after two days of fluids and antibiotic...the Dr. will do another x-ray today to see stone status.

She also suggests putting her on an additional anitbiotic along w/her orginal Rx of clavamox, when I get her home... shes said will help treat the bacteria better that is still lingering in her. what do you think? Is that too much?
thanks.

[Traci]

Did the vet say antibiotic or possibly an acidifyer? Please make sure you know what she is prescribing.

And, usually, only one antibiotic is necessary, one should not include more than that, find out what the antibiotic is, and why she chose it. Find out if it is another oral antibiotic or if she simply wants to give her an antibiotic injection before releasing her from the clinic. Was another urinalysis done? Was an ultrasound discussed or performed? Did the vet get Karma to eat??

[KJL07]

Yes, she is eating! I can't believe it. Yayyyyyy!

She is actually starting eating some wet food while there yesterday, they called it "maintenance" food. The vet sent me home with Hills, c/d, multicare. Same as last vet suggested and a bag of the dry version this time too.
Poor thing was hooked upt to I V for 2 days. But, while there got some ampicillin, pepcid, baytril, and potassium chloride injections.
Karma looks much better- she is walking better and is now resting.

The antibiotic she gave me is another pilll (ugh!), but I can get it filled in liquid, if I want. Its called Baytril, 20. She suggested this because she said that she does not know what the bacteria causing the infection is sensitive to.
We didn't do an u.sound, just another xray today. Stone has moved some again. but still stuck in ureter. Ideally, she says that if it would move and end up in the bladder, that would be good. That type of surgery seems a bit more common to perform.

Of course, if it doesn't move, then the one kidney will be compromised eventually. She said as along as the other kidney is functioning well, and we can get rid of the infection, she may be OK.
What do you think?
She wants to see her to do recheck, and repeat labs, in two weeks.

talk soon,
b.

[Traci]

If she's going to give the Baytril, she might consider ceasing the clavamox, I personally don't see why both are given at the same time, but she could have done a urine culture to determine what antibiotic was the best approach. Might ask her about that.

Glad to hear she's eating, but monitor her eating habits closely at home, don't feed anything outside of the prescription diet, and ensure she's getting plenty of water intake....leave out a few bowls of fresh water in her favorite areas of the house, keep them changed at least once a day. The more bowls available to her, the more she may be inclined to drink sufficiently.

The stone may be moving, but it doesn't appear to be moving where it should be, so you MUST keep an eagle eye on her and watch for signs we talked about earlier and consult your vet at ONCE if any of those signs occur. You may need to be prepared for surgery still, so keep that in mind.

Ideally, both kidneys need to be functioning properly, I don't know why your vet feels one isn't? The kidney stone may be in the ureter, but it still needs to be addressed. If it enlarges in size, surgery may be a necessity.

I don't think you're going to be able to get the Baytril in liquid form, but your vet could consider injections. Only thing is, she's had an awful lot of injections in the hospital and you don't want to subject her to more. Try the Baytril pills and see how it goes, if Karma fights them, call your vet and ask if you can dissolve them in water or tuna juice and then give via syringe, like you're giving the clavamox. You have to have the vet's direction before you cut or dissolve pills on your own though.

[KJL07]

Traci - to confirm... the injections Karma got - was thru the catheter in arm...
i was confused w/this myself, but figured it out today. I was thinking of the cateter you get when a human is going in for surgery...
duhhh!
I believe all her meds were thru IV.
b.