Any succes dissolving struvite bladder stones w/ diet alone?

[Debo]

Just wondering if anyone out there has had success dissolving STRUVITE BLADDER STONES with diet alone. If so please share experience in detail. How did you get your cat to switch and eat this food. Did you include ANY other food besides what was prescribed? I've heard its okay to add baby food to the SD prescription diet because it is supposed to be pretty nasty tasting and the baby food is high protein and low carb. Is there more than one prescription food for this condition? Also if successful how long did it take with diet. This is a very difficult thing to deal with because of all the conflicting opinions from vets. I'm just trying to exhaust every avenue in hopes of avoiding surgery for my kitty. Any input is greatly appreciated. Thanks

[Traci]

Did you read my response to your other post?

Have you ceased the holistic stuff?

Who told you to use baby food with presciption S/D? Someone online?

What "conflicting opinions" from what vets? Again, are you using internet information instead of your vet's direct advice?

In your other post, you said you were currently feeding Fancy Feast, this is not an appropriate diet for either dissolution OR managing struvites or FLUTD. Veterinary diets are designed specifically to dissolve or manage struvites, no other commercial food can match the prescription diets for this purpose. In some cats, FLUTD is resolved and may be able to go back onto their regular food fed prior to the condition, but many cats need to be managed on a prescription diet for life.

No, NO other food or treats should ever be given when a prescription diet is being fed, since this defeats the purpose and negates the formulated diet's purpose. Do NOT feed baby food or any other food with any prescription diet. Whomever told you that is ill-informed and isn't treating YOUR cat.

As for getting kitty to eat the prescribed diet: some vets may recommend you mix the regular food in small amounts with the new prescribed diet, over a period of a few days, and decreasing the old food and having the cat strictly on the prescribed diet within a few days. It is crucial the cat finds the prescription diet palatable and eats it consistently. If one prescription diet is not palatable to the cat, then an equivalent prescription diet is chosen. There are several veterinary prescribed diets available for this purpose. It's up to you to monitor kitty closely at home for his appetite level, his palatability, monitor his drinking/urine output and other symptoms, and your vet is responsible for prescribing a suitable diet for kitty's specific needs and changing it only when the cat is not eating the prescribed diet or if followup urinalyses indicate the diet is not working (in which an equivalent veterinary diet can be prescribed)

You can ask your vet about his experience, if any, with Royal Canin's "Feline Dissolution Formula" (canned), and if kitty responds well, and the struvites are dissolve, then manage on any one of the management veterinary diets (canned or dry, depending on kitty's preference and palatability).

Again, please refer to your vet, and not internet advice if that is where you've obtained your information. He's the ONLY one who knows your kitty's health history, health status, specific needs, etc.

[Debo]

Yes I read your other post and no I have not ceased the holistic stuff. At this time, with the support of my two regular vets and a vet that practices holistic medicine, we are trying the holistic approach. I can assure you that Cheech has had all xrays and urine tests and is under close supervision. We all agreed to a six week treatment plan. As long as Cheech is not in any immediate danger, we will press on. After six weeks we will reevaluate everything and make decisions accordingly.

From your response I do not expect you to understand this decision. You obviously think I am diagnosing and treating my cat via the internet and you seem to have a real issue with holistic medicine. Holistic medicine is not something I usually resort to but in this case I have found two people I know personally, that have had success dissolving these stones with the holistic approach. Cheech has already been through one surgery and I will not agree to another one without exhausting all options. As I said he is under very close observation and he is doing very well at this time.

As for the diets, I have alot of reservations. You recommended checking out royal canins feline dissoluton formula. Well I did check it out only to find it was "proactively" recalled as part of this whole tainted cat food issue. I think I'll pass on that one.

One other thing that I find most interesting is that the question I posted has still not been answered. I cannot find anyone to share a success story with me about their own PERSONAL experience dissolving a bladder stone with diet alone. Even you didn't answer that.

[Marty]

Wish I could help you with your question...

But I did have a reasonable success in just controlling the stones for Winnie (dog, however). I used IVD which is now Royal Canin.

I can't think of anyone here who has tried the dissolving method (gonna guess that they need to be small for that), but I would trust Traci to have some experience with that.

[Traci]

I guess I mistakenly thought you were asking not only for personal experience but for additional advice as well.

You said:

This is a very difficult thing to deal with because of all the conflicting opinions from vets. I'm just trying to exhaust every avenue in hopes of avoiding surgery for my kitty. Any input is greatly appreciated.

Maybe that's where I was mistaken.

Unless your vets can produce quality EBM-studies/controlled studies and peer-reviewed research on holistic treatment for dissolution of struvites or other uroliths, whatever a holistic vet says shouldn't be that convincing, should it? I confess, yes I do have a problem with that, and I try to warn unsuspecting pet owners of the same. As long as your holistic vet encourages you to do this, then you will in effect be denying Cheech vital/proper/necessary treatment, or spending money needlessly for questionable, perhaps dubious "treatment".

Can struvites be dissolved on diet alone? Sure, in a small majority of cats. Most in those cases, the struvites do not always completely dissolve, but rather shrink enough to pass safely on their own. Usually antibiotics are also prescribed to help reduce inflammation and potential for secondary infections which can exacerbate FLUTD. Other cats do not respond as well, since size and number and location of struvites need to be determined, as well as dietary factors, incidence of accompanying bacterial infection, urine pH, scar tissue, crystals higher up in the urethra, inflammation, predisposition, dehydration, sensitive to stress, etc. That's why I simply suggested asking your vet about the Royal Canin Feline Dissolution Diet, canned form.

The Medi-Cal Feline Dissolution Formula was recalled in Canada only, not the Royal Canin Feline Dissolution Formula in the USA. Since Royal Canin Canada got their ingredients from Menu Foods, the Royal Canin USA did not get the ingredients from Menu Foods. I assumed, perhaps wrongly, that you lived in the US, therefore you needn't have been concerned with this particular recall.

I also mistakenly assumed from your first post earlier that potential surgery had been discussed by your vet, and sensed your vet was quite serious about that potential, and from learning that you are using a holistic approach, I do hope you are not putting all your faith into this to avoid surgery. Some cats require surgery if the number/location/size of the struvites are problematic or are accompanied by other urinary tract or bladder problems. I'm sure if your vet warned you about potential surgery, he had every reason to do so, based on his findings, kitty's prior or current response or failure in treatment, etc.

And yes, I do have a problem with someone, particularly if it was one of your vets, suggesting it is perfectly ok to use baby food with a prescription diet, particularly S/D. Not only does human baby food have no nutritional value for cats (is not properly formulated for the species), it may contain added salts or minerals which can be detrimental for the patient with struvites and urine issues. Again, a presciption diet is prescribed with the understanding and direction that NO other food is fed in conjunction because this defeats the entire purpose of the prescription food. In a severely ill cat with severe anorexia, it might be used as a tempter to get the cat to eat, but these are extreme cases and do not fall into the category of treating FLUTD.

I have one cat who is predisposed to FLUTD, he has had two catheterizations in a span of roughly 8-10 years, he is managed on a prescription diet. Years ago, another, who also was catheterized once, and managed on a prescription diet.

I have treated many FLUTD cats and therefore posted to you based on clinical experience and knowledge of treating FLUTD. I learn the same things your vet learns and sometimes even more. It was not, nor ever would be my intention to steer a pet owner in the wrong direction, and I do strongly advocate EBM as opposed to pseudoscience. Without evidence, it is only anecdotal if that.

I'm sorry if you took offense to my posts. But I could not in good conscience tell you anything less, and would encourage you to get kitty treated appropriately, without holistic methods, as I truly see them more a hinder than helping.

[BarneyTheCat]

Hi,

I am also in a frenzy looking for a diet for our Baby (urinary Tract Infection) but his vet prescribed Science Diet.
After having gone through so much with all the recalls already, our veterinarian is prescribing this -- and for a carnivorous species?! SD c/d multicare feline ingredients:

Brewers Rice, Corn Gluten Meal, Chicken By-Product Meal, Pork Fat (preserved with mixed tocopherols and citric acid), Chicken Liver Flavor, Fish Oil, Potassium Chloride, Calcium Sulfate, Choline Chloride, Vitamin E Supplement, Iodized Salt, Potassium Citrate, vitamins (Vitamin E Supplement, Niacin, Thiamine Mononitrate, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Calcium Pantothenate, Riboflavin, Vitamin A Supplement, Biotin, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Folic Acid, Vitamin D3 Supplement), Taurine, minerals (Ferrous Sulfate, Zinc Oxide, Copper Sulfate, Manganous Oxide, Calcium Iodate, Sodium Selenite), preserved with BHT and BHA, Beta-Carotene.

I, myself, will look into the Royal Canin, -- THANK YOU!! --and appreciate any other food tips (low enough in ash and magnesium) as well. Thank you for having this forum!
Why do people we pay to look out for our pets' health suggest we feed Corn and by-products to these creatures? To need a "prescription" for Brewers & Corn Gluten for a carn., there's something wrong somewhere...

[Traci]

While it would ultimately be better to have meat products in the first ingredients, there is nothing wrong with the ingredients in the C/D Multicare. If you're overly concerned about the ingredients in this, try the canned version instead. (has more pork sources).

Corn and by-products are good sources for metabolizable energy, protein, etc. With prescription diets, they are designed with lower ash/magnesium/phosphorus/other minerals and salts to prevent/manage FLUTD. You can't match this formulation with commercial foods.

Your vet knows what he's doing, but you can always discuss another equivalent veterinary prescribed diet with him, specific to your kitty's needs.

[Phoebe's human]

My previous cat was diagnosed with struvite crystals when she had a UTI before she was a year old. At that point the vet made it very clear that she would be on a prescription diet--and NO OTHER TYPES OF FOOD--for the rest of her life.

She was on Hill's Prescription c/d (the dry form) for the rest of her life. She lived to be almost 13, never had another UTI that I remember, and no more stones that I knew of, though she had other (unrelated) health problems: ear mites, ear infections, feline acne, a hernia. She died apparently of a liver tumor.

Being a stone-former might have meant she didn't live as long as some cats--I'll never know. (No autopsy was done.) But I feel that that prescription diet was helping her--and she liked it immediately.

[Traci]

Phoebe's Human, I don't think there is any evidence to suggest FLUTD cats have a shortened life span, in fact, I'm sure that is not the case. (unless there were other complicating factors, which seem unlikely). Please don't question/second-guess yourself on that.