The walks in the morning are about 40-45 minutes. They walk 20 minutes, then the dogs can go off leash for a while, then my husband has a tea at a tea stall while the dogs sit, and then they come back.
You might be right that it's too much for her, as he is a fast walker. But he says, the male dog stops all the time to mark every tree and corner, so it's not continuous walking.
The terrain - uh, it's Indian streets which is nothing like an American street, means it's sometimes quite cumbersome to walk. There are holes, rubbish, stones, parts with bare ground. India is a mess.
But walking with an empty stomach might be one reason she feels not well afterwards. We will give her a small snack before leaving in the morning and see if that helps.
I don't know how I gave the impression that she isn't eliminating. She always does on the walks, both types.
Apart from the morning walk they go out after lunch, just 10 minutes for a pee. Then they will be out on the terrace in the afternnon for an hour or so, and have an evening walk at 10pm, again for 45 minutes.
Elderly dog is sometimes not well
Re: Elderly dog is sometimes not well
Well, try shortening the walks, and if the terrain is tough, she could be tiring, and if slightly arthritic, this could cause residual pain/discomfort during the day. What does she sleep on at night? A comfy bed, pad or something that is cushy?
Do try to feed smaller meals, and especially a small meal before walks.
Do try to feed smaller meals, and especially a small meal before walks.
..........Traci
Re: Elderly dog is sometimes not well
They sleep on mats with a blanket on it. It's not very soft. Should I change that you think? There is not really much available for dogs here .. but I have an old futon for children, maybe that'll do?
She'll get a snack tomorrow morning and I told hubby to walk slower.
We will take the urine tomorrow as well.
She'll get a snack tomorrow morning and I told hubby to walk slower.
We will take the urine tomorrow as well.
Re: Elderly dog is sometimes not well
If the futon cushion is cushy (like a big pillow), yes, this would be good for her. Anything that provides a cushion for limbs and joints and keeps the dog comfortable when sleeping for long periods of time. Also try to keep her bed away from cold drafts.
On an unrelated issue, just sent you an email...
On an unrelated issue, just sent you an email...
..........Traci
Re: Elderly dog is sometimes not well
Got your email ...
Well, got the futon out from the bottom of the big trunk last night and Shida just looooves it!
It's kind of semi-soft, not too soft which is also not good for the bones and joints (my own experience with my back). I think it's just right.
She also got a snack before going out and hubby is walking slower. So let's see if that helps.
Well, got the futon out from the bottom of the big trunk last night and Shida just looooves it!
It's kind of semi-soft, not too soft which is also not good for the bones and joints (my own experience with my back). I think it's just right. She also got a snack before going out and hubby is walking slower. So let's see if that helps.
Re: Elderly dog is sometimes not well
Morning! 
Took us 4 days to get the urine collected! She did not like that someone crouches down behind her while she was doing her pee ... but finally we managed.
Got the results this morning. It's very alkaline, ph is 8.3. And there are a small amount of pus cells, it says 2-3 hpf, and a small amount of epithelial cells, 3-4 hpf. The person in the lab called it 'small amounts which are no real indicators of diseases'.
Everything else is fine. No sugar, protein, ketones, blood, crystals.
Shida is fine. The changes we have incorporated seem to be good for her. She visibly enjoys her new bed and defends it against the male dog.
They get a snack before the morning walk and we take care to walk slower with her.
I feel that she has more energy now, thank you Traci for these good ideas!
But yesterday she was again not feeling so well. It had nothing to do with the morning walk as she had slept after the walk and when she woke up from the nap it started (panting, looking unhappy, wanting to go out etc). I took her downstairs where she ate some grass. After that she slept and then was ok again, ate her food etc. So it wasn't as long as the previous episodes, didn't last the whole day.
Took us 4 days to get the urine collected! She did not like that someone crouches down behind her while she was doing her pee ... but finally we managed.
Got the results this morning. It's very alkaline, ph is 8.3. And there are a small amount of pus cells, it says 2-3 hpf, and a small amount of epithelial cells, 3-4 hpf. The person in the lab called it 'small amounts which are no real indicators of diseases'.
Everything else is fine. No sugar, protein, ketones, blood, crystals.
Shida is fine. The changes we have incorporated seem to be good for her. She visibly enjoys her new bed and defends it against the male dog.
They get a snack before the morning walk and we take care to walk slower with her. I feel that she has more energy now, thank you Traci for these good ideas!
But yesterday she was again not feeling so well. It had nothing to do with the morning walk as she had slept after the walk and when she woke up from the nap it started (panting, looking unhappy, wanting to go out etc). I took her downstairs where she ate some grass. After that she slept and then was ok again, ate her food etc. So it wasn't as long as the previous episodes, didn't last the whole day.
Re: Elderly dog is sometimes not well
Just wondering ...
it was not possible to collect urine with the jar because she was spooked by us holding something under her. So after several unsucessfull attempts we used a lid from a large plastic kitchen container because it was flat and we could just slide it under her.
That lid was clean but could it have had some residue dishwashing soap which made the urine so alkaline?
it was not possible to collect urine with the jar because she was spooked by us holding something under her. So after several unsucessfull attempts we used a lid from a large plastic kitchen container because it was flat and we could just slide it under her.
That lid was clean but could it have had some residue dishwashing soap which made the urine so alkaline?
Re: Elderly dog is sometimes not well
Highly unlikely, but the method of collection could have altered the results.
How long after you collected the urine did you get it to the vet for testing?
Did you refrigerate it first, and if so, for how long?
If refrigerated, did the vet allow time for the sample to get at room temperature before testing, or, how long was the urine "standing" before he tested it?
Was urine sediment tested? I assume he did since there were epithelial cells, but does he know how to differentiate the different types of epithelial cells? (in most cases, it wouldn't be abnormal to have a few of these in the urine, but when combined with other abnormal urine markers and underlying disease, more investigation may be needed)
The WBC could actually be a false number, since WBC tend to destruct within minutes in high alkaline urine. So, there may in fact have been a higher number of WBC, and depending on the time it took from collection to testing will be of significance. Ideally, manual expression or cystocentisis (in the clinic) is the best collection measure, to avoid risk of contamination, and for quicker, more accurate results. The fact that there was neutrophilia and WBC in the blood serum is also probably indicative of infection or inflammation. A sediment exam on the urine would help to determine infection and inflammation as well (like bladder inflammation, potentiall for crystal formation, etc). Do you know what the specific gravity was?
I have to agree with Karen, a urine culture may be in order, particularly if the urinalysis was inaccurate due to timing, or potential lab technique errors.
Do you think she may be rataining urine during the night, or has she shown any signs of incontinence? Inflammation and infection can certainly cause a dog to retain urine, which oftentimes will produce significant urine markers during the urinalysis.
Maybe omit the veggies from the diet, and omit the brewer's yeast. (a diet high in vegetables or vegetable matter can cause alkaline urine, just a rule-out here). Try feeding her the dry diet only on a temporary basis, until you can get either a new urinalysis done and/or urine culture.
Does the vet take her temperature during her exams? During the last exam, was temperature taken? Have you taken her temperature at home?
How much urine is she actually voiding when she goes? How much, particularly in the mornings? You keep mentioning that she seems restless, but are you possibly confusing this with pain?
Don't let her eat grass. It's a myth that domestic animals eat grass to vomit, and the blades/barbs on certain species of grass can be harmful to the stomach and instestine (this is actually the cause of the vomiting), not to mention whether or not you know if the grass in particular has been treated with fertilizer, or other substances.
I guess I would suggest a new urinalysis/sediment exam, and urine culture, making sure the urine sample is collected by manual expression if possible, and ensuring the vet tests it immediately after collection.
How long after you collected the urine did you get it to the vet for testing?
Did you refrigerate it first, and if so, for how long?
If refrigerated, did the vet allow time for the sample to get at room temperature before testing, or, how long was the urine "standing" before he tested it?
Was urine sediment tested? I assume he did since there were epithelial cells, but does he know how to differentiate the different types of epithelial cells? (in most cases, it wouldn't be abnormal to have a few of these in the urine, but when combined with other abnormal urine markers and underlying disease, more investigation may be needed)
The WBC could actually be a false number, since WBC tend to destruct within minutes in high alkaline urine. So, there may in fact have been a higher number of WBC, and depending on the time it took from collection to testing will be of significance. Ideally, manual expression or cystocentisis (in the clinic) is the best collection measure, to avoid risk of contamination, and for quicker, more accurate results. The fact that there was neutrophilia and WBC in the blood serum is also probably indicative of infection or inflammation. A sediment exam on the urine would help to determine infection and inflammation as well (like bladder inflammation, potentiall for crystal formation, etc). Do you know what the specific gravity was?
I have to agree with Karen, a urine culture may be in order, particularly if the urinalysis was inaccurate due to timing, or potential lab technique errors.
Do you think she may be rataining urine during the night, or has she shown any signs of incontinence? Inflammation and infection can certainly cause a dog to retain urine, which oftentimes will produce significant urine markers during the urinalysis.
Maybe omit the veggies from the diet, and omit the brewer's yeast. (a diet high in vegetables or vegetable matter can cause alkaline urine, just a rule-out here). Try feeding her the dry diet only on a temporary basis, until you can get either a new urinalysis done and/or urine culture.
Does the vet take her temperature during her exams? During the last exam, was temperature taken? Have you taken her temperature at home?
How much urine is she actually voiding when she goes? How much, particularly in the mornings? You keep mentioning that she seems restless, but are you possibly confusing this with pain?
Don't let her eat grass. It's a myth that domestic animals eat grass to vomit, and the blades/barbs on certain species of grass can be harmful to the stomach and instestine (this is actually the cause of the vomiting), not to mention whether or not you know if the grass in particular has been treated with fertilizer, or other substances.
I guess I would suggest a new urinalysis/sediment exam, and urine culture, making sure the urine sample is collected by manual expression if possible, and ensuring the vet tests it immediately after collection.
..........Traci
Re: Elderly dog is sometimes not well
My husband brought the urine to the lab immediately after collecting it. Within 30 minutes it was at the lab. We did not refrigderate it. But I have no way of knowing when the personnel at the lab started working on it.
Specific gravity is stated as 1.021
Do you think she may be rataining urine during the night,
Well, she has to. She can't go out at night.
has she shown any signs of incontinence
No, never.
Temperature was never taken. Nose is always cool.
I have no way of knowing how much she urinates. You see, there are no sidewalk pavements here. At the side of the roads there is simply bare earth, grass etc, where she pees - so the urine disappears into the earth immediately and doesn't form a puddle. But she always seems to be producing a lot cause you can hear it for at least 15-20 seconds. She is also a good drinker, always has been.
I want to say that she normally isn't much of a grass eater. It is only during those episodes that she suddenly literally runs towards the grass and starts munching it. The episodes are characterised by suddenly being restless and panting, not eating, and sitting at the door (wanting to go out). Outside she wants grass and nothing else. After that she relaxes after some time. Does that sound like she has pain to you? To me it always seems she is feeling nauseous or acidic. To do with the stomach rather than with the bladder. My vet thinks her stomach is acidic and that's why she wants grass.
Specific gravity is stated as 1.021
Do you think she may be rataining urine during the night,
Well, she has to. She can't go out at night.
has she shown any signs of incontinence
No, never.
Temperature was never taken. Nose is always cool.
I have no way of knowing how much she urinates. You see, there are no sidewalk pavements here. At the side of the roads there is simply bare earth, grass etc, where she pees - so the urine disappears into the earth immediately and doesn't form a puddle. But she always seems to be producing a lot cause you can hear it for at least 15-20 seconds. She is also a good drinker, always has been.
I want to say that she normally isn't much of a grass eater. It is only during those episodes that she suddenly literally runs towards the grass and starts munching it. The episodes are characterised by suddenly being restless and panting, not eating, and sitting at the door (wanting to go out). Outside she wants grass and nothing else. After that she relaxes after some time. Does that sound like she has pain to you? To me it always seems she is feeling nauseous or acidic. To do with the stomach rather than with the bladder. My vet thinks her stomach is acidic and that's why she wants grass.
-
mamabear
- Formerly mamaof4soon
- Posts: 589
- Joined: Wed Apr 18, 2007 10:39 pm
- Location: The Garden State
Re: Elderly dog is sometimes not well
hi ash.
I have to ask this...what type of dog food is she eating and why is she on suppliments?
I see traci said veggies and brewers yeast?
why is she on these and how often is she being fed as well?
Tummy troubles can be many things even a sour stomach from not having food for a period of time. Like traci said maybe feed her smaller meals, hypoglycemia is also true too. If she is getting fed once a day it might be better go feed her, her recommended amount but in 3 parts per day.
When you say snack what do you mean? Is this human food? Or a cheap snack of dog food?
Traci mentioned veggies, are these veggies put into a food processor and broken down or given whole or cut up?
ANY human food at all should not be given to her if she is having tummy problems unless it is a bland diet of chicken(cooked) and rice mixed together and that is ONLY if your vet says to if there is an issue with intestines. I know your vet issues, i have read your posts before and sorry that you have to be so frustrated with what you have there.((((HUGS)))) I would like to know about the diet she is on though if you can tell me.
Also I do think another urinalysis is in order as well. You can boil water for 10 minutes and put it onto a pie plate and let is sit there to sterilize it or maybe put boiling water into a large wide mouth jar to collect the urine. NO soap in the boiling water, just wash it well rinse well then add boiling water and let is sit. cap it until you need it. (if using a wide jar put cap of jar in the jar with hot water too to get that boiled as well)
If a women does not wipe properly when giving a urine sample it can show some leukocytes so I cant imagine what it might show for a dog if she doesnt wipe. I am sure it will be fine but make sure the stuff you use is clean and that the VET is NOT contaminating it by not washing hands or letting stuff from the air get in the jar before they use it. You say its not clean where teh vet it so who knows what is flying around there or in the air or if they even use gloves when handling urine specimen. Maybe try at the clinic you just mentioned instead of going to your other vet.
good luck let us know
I have to ask this...what type of dog food is she eating and why is she on suppliments?
I see traci said veggies and brewers yeast?
why is she on these and how often is she being fed as well?
Tummy troubles can be many things even a sour stomach from not having food for a period of time. Like traci said maybe feed her smaller meals, hypoglycemia is also true too. If she is getting fed once a day it might be better go feed her, her recommended amount but in 3 parts per day.
When you say snack what do you mean? Is this human food? Or a cheap snack of dog food?
Traci mentioned veggies, are these veggies put into a food processor and broken down or given whole or cut up?
ANY human food at all should not be given to her if she is having tummy problems unless it is a bland diet of chicken(cooked) and rice mixed together and that is ONLY if your vet says to if there is an issue with intestines. I know your vet issues, i have read your posts before and sorry that you have to be so frustrated with what you have there.((((HUGS)))) I would like to know about the diet she is on though if you can tell me.
Also I do think another urinalysis is in order as well. You can boil water for 10 minutes and put it onto a pie plate and let is sit there to sterilize it or maybe put boiling water into a large wide mouth jar to collect the urine. NO soap in the boiling water, just wash it well rinse well then add boiling water and let is sit. cap it until you need it. (if using a wide jar put cap of jar in the jar with hot water too to get that boiled as well)
If a women does not wipe properly when giving a urine sample it can show some leukocytes so I cant imagine what it might show for a dog if she doesnt wipe. I am sure it will be fine but make sure the stuff you use is clean and that the VET is NOT contaminating it by not washing hands or letting stuff from the air get in the jar before they use it. You say its not clean where teh vet it so who knows what is flying around there or in the air or if they even use gloves when handling urine specimen. Maybe try at the clinic you just mentioned instead of going to your other vet.
good luck let us know
Almost 7 years in remission from Graves disease and no meds!