Dog with landscaping issues

[mamabear]

I am finding the theory of the oldest dog as alpha dog interesting...I always thought dogs made their own pack order, and things will change when a new dog is introduced. Now I do think the oldest one should be fed first, but not because it is alpha.

Biscotti (my current oldest) will run outside at feeding time, and waits to be fed until the other 2 have eaten. But she has always been funny like that. But I could be reading things wrong.

In the pack order the oldest is the leader. When a young male has become an adult there might be some fighting if they think oldest is weak. That is why i say that it confuses our dogs when we are lax in what we do. Either you are always alpha or you are not at all. There is no one day yes then one day no. That highly stresses any dog , and that is why in the wild they would fight and the winner would take over giving the looser the next level down or further. In the wild the oldest is the leader because they formed the pack with the alpha female and therefore their pups are

younger than they are.

Alpha females are not the same as alpha males. That is why my role is different in my home than my husbands. That is why the dogs try to get away with things with me since technically i am "only" the alpha female and there are no other female dogs around. But someone try to break into my home and hurt their alpha female or her babies and my dogs will say bring it on

If you have a dog that is lets say 2 yrs old in the house and he has been there and then you get a 10 yr old from a shelter THE ONE WHO HAS BEEN THERE THE LONGEST is still the ruler. If you have a few that have been there the same time then its the oldest.

There is an exception, there are packs that take on their own roles. One of two things can happen, either you allow this and say for instance "max" is taking on the alpha over the other two dogs, "larry" and "curly" and they seem to fit just fine in those roles then treat them accordingly.

IF there is fighting amongst them then YOU take charge and show them that there is no other alpha except you and only you and they are all on the low end equally.

Some dogs fall into the whole i would rather be submissive and let the others do the work. That is ok until the fighting starts, if fighting starts then you fix it by using the rule of the oldest gets the biscuit.


BISCOTTI is a female, if the other two are females then she is allowing them to eat as any alpha female would for her babies. It is just the role she has taken on. It could be that she does not sence that you are alpha over her and therefore she does it for you. Unless she is aggresive then I would have to say "if it aint broke, dont fix it". If she is female and the the others are males then she is in her place again either as a female being motherly or just that she is allowing it. Same thing if the other two are male and a female.

Dogs can change all the time but some do like the pecking order the way it is. Obviously in the wild things change all the time for ranking purposes or when illness strikes. My males treat me differently when I am pregnant. It is just mother nature and they are very sensitive to me. They have shown me every time I am pregnant and every time i was in labor. Funny you would think I would have figured it out but noooooooooo last time my oldest sniffed my wrist and walked onto my very huge belly and went face to face with me. Stupidly I had forgotten that he had done this in the past only two other times. (the last two times i was in labor and didnt know it) LOL I sat around all day thinking what's wrong with me till the dr. said hey come in and dh and I put two and two together.(DUH moment)

I know a set of dogs that the oldest is not the alpha amungt them. Its the younger one. THe dogs are 3 and 2 and the the two year old was so aggresive and took on the role, now they have been trained in those roles and no longer fight. But remember if they choose it, it's ok to keep them there but if you TRY to force it and they still fight then you are breaking their spirits by forcing something that isnt suppose to happen that way. the rule is who is there the longest or oldest is the alpha but sometimes there are changes when you see it and that is when you have to ask yourself if everything is ok just leave it and if not then you have to intervene. You above anyone else is alpha over all of them so there should be no challanging but except it once in a while(its just in their nature to challange, it keeps them on their toes and yours)

[Marty]

Thanks so much for taking the time to write all that...I know it can't be easy when you have children...
very informative, and it shed some light on some things for me.

No aggression problems here now, but it explains what I suspected about Louie (whom I regretfully allowed my son to give him a home after 1 1/2 years here). He not only was coming into maturity, but that was the beginning of Winnie's kidney failure...which we found out shortly after. He is fine with my son, but now when they go to visit my daughter, he has problems with her Baxter, where he didn't before...and Baxter just turned 2!

My 3 are all females and do very well together, so I guess iam lucky and will stick with that. I never could figure out why Biscotti was so odd with food, but maybe it is just her very submissive nature. She goes belly up for anyone who will look at her! Even strangers...

And I didn't really mean to hijack the post...maybe it ought to be renamed "how to understand your dog."

[k9Karen]

She is deaf, has that been confirmed for sure?

oh yes - she is almost 9 years old and was born deaf. No apparent ear abnormality - she just can't hear. She doesn't know she is supposed to. She is a sweety (as well as a brat) and we love her to death. the thing that gets my goat is that she doesn't bark like that for my husband - she knows better than to challenge him!

[mamabear]

K9 karen LOL you make me laugh with your little bratty girl. she is so funny.

Male and female dogs act differently with male and female humans. My oldest dog Max would never think to challance my dh ever! But me oh well that is a different story. Its certainly not for a higher notch on the totem poll since i am "only" a female in the pack order. Yes it really does mean a difference. And no i am not being a chauvinistic pig. Males have thieir role in the pack from higher to lower and THEN there are females who have their role from higher to lower. Since I am "only" a female alpha the males will tend to try to get away with more stuff, just like kids do. My kids would never do what they do to me to my dh. OH heck no! LOL Well dogs male and female are the same way. A pup would get away with more from mama than one of the males in the pack, ALTHOUGH the alpha male will intervene if a pup was being bullied by another male while in the sight of its mother. Again the alpha male protecting the pup AND the head female dog.

One of three things is happening with your sweetybrat(lol), my first impression without knowing everything is that she is protecting you. You ARE alpha BUT you let her out first, therefore SHE MUST protect you as you are female as she is. Or she feels that she is alpha since she gets to go out of door first and needs to protect you from the unwanted animals outside. Ohhhhh your protector! OR she would never do this to your husband and she is a brat and she knows which button gets ya.

If she is doing it to protect you, the reason she might not do it to your dh is because she may feel even though she goes first that he does not need protection... I would not praise either way on this if you do think it might be that she is protecting you because like you said you dont want her to do it at night so dont give praise at all. But if it's only for a few moments that is doing this just to scare the not welcomes there then honestly i would since she is deaf relish that she would do that for you.

If for some reason you think she might be trying to be alpha over you there are things that can help you with a deaf dog to reinforce that you are alpha. Always have her work for her food. A good sit! and she does it means she gets to eat. Or a sit then release then a down then release then tell her to eat. Remember a command for each one.

Always check your outside surroundings since she is a deaf dog and there might be something out there she should not eat or get into and if she goes out there she wont hear you say NO or stop it or what ever command you use. Since she is deaf they wont work if she cant see you. So like with a kid check the safety of her surroundings to make sure they are always free of danger.

[JUDY S]

Thank-you Mamabear for all the advice. I will do my best to put it into practice. Oddly enough the dogs listen to me much better then to my husband. We will both have to take the time to correct these problems. And yes it's a lot to take in. I don't know if I can get this out without breaking down, but as I am at work I will try. We lost our oldest baby. My husband called them in to eat on Monday morning and when Kujo didn't come he went to check on him and found him laying on the grass. I will try hard to become my girls leader, but right now my heart is broken.

[Marty]

Judy, I am sorry for your loss...know that we are thinking of you.

[mamabear]

Judy I am so sorry for the loss of Kujo. Hugs to you and your dh ,prayers!

I am sure you will be a fine leader to your girls....when you are ready, I will be here, we all will be here. But for now talk to us here or vent it will be good for you. I am so so sorry dear.

Remember that at this time the other dogs will feel a loss as well and take it their own way just like humans. They are a pack regardless right now of the order and please make sure you watch for signs of depression or hiding. Some may howl for Kujo, although i would tell someone to stop that behavoir when it comes to loss it is exceptable and wanted for them to heal their own way. Please make sure you check that there are no poisons out there that might have caused this. You never know if someone might plant something there. I hate to say that but I feel I must.

((((((((((((KUJO)))))))))))))))))))

[JUDY S]

Thanks everyone. Mamabear, that was a question of mine. I don't see that the lab is any different. But my Rotti, Nikki, has been with him for about six years. She has been laying where he died and checking out where we buried him. She kissed his nose just before we put him in the ground. I don't know how to help her. I am spending as much time with her as I can and excusing her extra barking. It's hurts to see her sitting in the back yard alone.

Please don't feel bad about asking about poison. I have been worried about the same thing. We walked around the yard, but didn't see anything. Would there not have been some sort of sign if he had a foreign substance in him? I was also worried about him maybe having a splintered bone and that may have caused this. Again would there be signs? I don't remember him getting bones, but it's possible. I keep wondering if there is something I did and don't know that caused this. I pray there isn't.

[mamabear]

Your vet said that he thought it was a heart attack. Please do not think you did anything wrong at all. Like I said you can what if or if i only did this or looked sooner....It will not change the outcome. Unless you had cooked bones out there for him to eat I doubt that it was a bone. And if he or they all were getting those bone marrow bones (you know the big long ones) that they can get the marrow out of them they would have known how to eat them and unless they were tiny i again doubt he would choke on it.

The poison I am not sure about. I dont know how long they are outside or how often they come in. Again like a lot of us who keep our dogs outside even if we glance over to see what they are doing we might not be able to tell what was ingested and if they are having a problem. I keep my dogs in the house but have a kennel for them. When they are out there I check once in a while or when Max is barking. I honestly dont think it was that either. I think your vet is right, sad as it is and that he is playing with all of our babies who have gone over.

As for Nikki, has she been there longer than the Lab? You say she was with Kujo for 6 yrs so i can assume that she took on the role as alpha female and according to the pack order that was her mate... Even if they didnt "mate" and were neutered, that was her mate and she will take some time to get over it. NOTE: also that she might become overly ALPHA female since there is not a higher male there. If this happens your dh will have to provide that and you and he will have to work to give the support both dogs need to feel safe and you and dh will therefore have to take on the roles of alpha only to give comfort to your girls. Remember Nikki DOES NOT want to be the alpha female now that her male is gone. So watch her and love her (both of them) and just take it slowly. When you know its time to become the alpha and make it stick then you know what you have to do . She will love you for it. If you see her stressed than I would have to say that your role as alpha should be started sooner rather than later. You do not want a depressed dog on your hands.
Rotti's are very strong willed dogs, she might become very protective. Is is very much in their nature to begin with but since the male of her pack is gone she must protect you or she thinks she does. Again I would say that she will have to learn sooner rather than later that you are the alpha and so is dh. She will not be upset taking on a new role, but it might take time for her to figure it out. Rotti's are very smart and will want to please. Usually when the oldest gets told who is who and where they stand the other follows suite but keep an eye on your Lab as well. Each dog takes it differently.

Good luck and again hugs to you for going through this.

[JUDY S]

Nikki has always been the more protective one, so that wouldn't be new. I will do my best to be the alpha in the family starting right away.