Dog with landscaping issues

[Traci]

She was letting herself out under our gate so my husband set up an electric fencer. She got zapped once, we turned it off and she hasn't done it since, so that just might work with her.

I have started to make them lay down until they are calm, which takes time and a lot of growling, but I don't have the time in the morning as I feed them before I head to work and it would certainly make me late. In the morning I have resorted to smacking and yelling at them. Not very productive I'm thinking.

I don't agree with electric fences or electric collars. I think they are non-productive methods for dogs and only serves to confuse, possibly harm, and cause aggression.

If you don't have time to train them, then no progress is going to occur. Smacking and yelling at them defeats the entire purpose, and only serves to create agression and fear from you. Please stop this method at once.

Have you tried feeding the dogs in seperate areas, far enough away from each other that they are not threatened by each other at meal time? Remember, it is instinctual behavior for dogs to be protective of their food. Place empty dishes in certain areas FIRST, then take the bag of food and measure out in each dish, that way, the dogs decide which dish they are going to claim. Be peristent about their feeding routines so they learn to associate.

Is your husband available to help train and take on the feeding responsibilities, etc? This should involve BOTH of you, and all training must be consistent on BOTH your parts....one owner cannot be lax and the other committed, both of you have to work together and follow through on the aspects of training, conditioning.

[Marty]

One other thought for feeding is to make certain there is no eye contact between them while they are eating. I feed 2 of mine in different rooms because I can tell by their expressions when it could mean trouble. If you can't do that, make sure they are facing in different directions and are not close to each other. One of them eats very slowly...grrr.

[JUDY S]

I could start feeding them in different areas of the garage, however, it's when they are both done eating that the growlings starts. I don't understand it. Pete and I feed them in the same manner. They have to wait for their food and they do not get to choose which dish they want, as they get different amounts and type of food due to their weight. I am trying hard to curb my frustration and not smack them, but I hate to see them snarl at each other for no apparent reason. The food is gone, what is there to growl about!

I don't like using the fencer either Tracy, but we felt we had no choice. My GS knows he is not supposed to jump the fence. We thought he was being a good boy because he was always at home. Then my neighbor who is at home during the day informed us that he was out while we were gone and then made sure to be home when we got there. Smart sucker! We bought the acerage for the dogs so they would have room, we spent $12,000 on a 6' fence to keep them safe but the GS jumped it and the Rottie went under. I tied the GS up when he jumped to let him know this was unacceptable. I came home after work and he was patiently waiting on the wrong side of the fence, still tied up. It was a long lead and smooth so he couldn't hang himself up on it.

We can't have them roaming the neighborhood. All my dogs are rescues and they all came with issues. We have made progress, but I don't know if they will ever fully obey us. The fencer only has to be on very briefly and they know to stay away from the fence and stay in the yard. Their safety is my main concern, I would hate to have them get run over if they got out and decided to chase vehicles without the fence to keep them safe.

[k9Karen]

water bottle? a good squirt on the hind end would surprise her and maybe make her stop!?

Might work, but she is a very long-haired dog and she probably wouldn't even feel it,. Unfortunately, the main problem is that I couldn't hit the broad side of a barn if I tried! Allie is a brat, she knows it, and we put up with it. She's also adorable, and she knows that too! Like I said, she walks all over us - all 17 pounds of fur!

[mamabear]

judy, EVERYTHING that you are mentioning is related to the PACK ORDER. Those dogs growl because they do not know their place. I would highly recomend you stop "trying" to be alpha and "become" it. Not yelling at you, just trying to reassure you that when you take on that role they will no longer have ot worry. I said that you must feed the one who has been there the longest first.

Food in your hand with the oldest dog
other dogs not around
dog must work (always) for food, could be just a simple sit BUT when dog sits you must release dog(we use ok or the german word for it depending what we are doing)
After the release you tell the dog to eat(again we use german to say eat food)
Then you go do the exact same thing with the other dogs.

You dont have to wait for the oldest to finish in order to feed the other. Just as long as the oldest was fed that is good enough.

Cats have no bearing on the pack order of dogs. feeding your cats will prove nothing to your dogs. You are to eat first again even it is a cup of coffee then you feed dogs

If you do not have time to spend doing this in the morning then you must get to bed earlier to get up an hour before your normal time and do this. Once your dogs know their pack order you will get faster at doing this. Once they know their pack order you wont always have to go through these motions with them. BUT the oldest goes out first NEVER them at the same time, Its you by the door then you let the oldest out then the next one and so fourth.

Everything you are doing is what is causing them to the way they are. DH not wanting the animals in his home is his choice and I dont blame him, its his house and his rules. I have my own rules here and although my dogs are in my home I have cages for them and they love them and I let them out but they do not go on anything at all. They do have a kennel they go into as well.

Here is the site for amazon , not sure if i am alloud to post it but i dont want you getting hte wrong thing.

http://www.amazon.com/Leader-Pack-have- ... 189176702X

Karen, deaf dogs are very smart. You are doing a great job with the bad command. Dont forget when she is being submissive or starts to show it dont let her get too subbimiision that can become OCD behavior or peeing on the floor. You want her to show you submission or oh boy i know i was wrong sawwwy mommy and praise her for it. Have you taught her the "what a good girl" command? do you have a command for that ? if you dont get one and work with her on it. As soon as she does something good you sign it to her. That is positive reinforcement.

If she turns to ignor you, YOU walk to her to where she can see you and show her the bad command. Then if she complies sign the good girl command.

I am not sure how well she is with the whole stomping in the house thing. I know someone when dog is in house that stomps once while dog is in room for her to stop and twice for good girl. But it only works if she is in the same room as the dog so i laugh with that one. She has taught the dog sign so that helps her.

I have to go for now. But would love to continue, i will have to check in later when I get back from my outings.

JUDY please please take the time to train your dogs and read the book. Your dogs are fighting because of the pecking order. Fix that and you will have good dogs. They wont be perfect, they will still try to get higher in the pack but you will be able to control them.

I have two Intact(yes they are both not neutered) and they play together drink together and have eaten in one cage together. THey love to play fight and fool around a lot and you would think they were killing eachother but they are wonderful dogs and that is due to good training and the knowledge that they know Im queen not them.

My oldest dog always goes out first and gets fed first.

[k9Karen]

Mamabear - yes, I have a 'good dog' command and she knows it. She is always pleased when she sees it. I haven't worked to teach her too many signals (she can read my face - it's amazing!). I have commands for "good dog" (clapping hands), "bad dog"(index finger shaking at her up and down), "don't even think about it" (index finger shaking side to side), and 'come here" (single index finger or entire hand held upward with finger(s) moving and curling inward - single finger usually means she's in trouble). She knows them all. I really don't have any major problems with her, it's more of an annoyance than a problem. She is very well behaved in the house - no destructive behavior, she gets along well with the other two dogs (who both accept her as the alpha) and submissive urination has never been a problem.

[mamabear]

Karen that is great with the training. Special care and time went into that and that is great that you did it for her. I must comment though on alpha. There is no other alpha's in that house except you and your husband then your kids or other humans (even someone entering your home is above the dog unless they are a threat for sure to the home) then the dogs are last. After humans it is the oldest dog OR the dog that has been there the longest. If the other two except this dog as the hierarchy of the pecking order then it would be this one who gets everything first. If I may use your clan as an example to JUDY.

I again can not stress enough about the whole alpha roles. If you are not confident about your human alpha role they know that and in the wild they would have to take control over an alpha that can no longer play that role. THEY DO NOT want that role and get confused thus the fussing and growling and what not.

I just realized that you said yelling and smacking... IF you yell they have no clue what you mean.. I yell commands at my dogs all the time and yell praise to them. My facial expressions mean nothing to them in fact i didnt want them to use my face as a tool i wanted them to hear me and SENSE my joy or fear or unhappiness. If you hit a dog any dog who does not know their role(pecking order) they can become scared and go after you for fear for their lives. When a dog is trained and knows for sure that he is the low end of the totem poll you can grab, pull, tug play fight and such with them. If you yell you are loosing control and therefore in the book of the wild you must be taken control of.

Traci is right in saying that if your going to do this your dh MUST MUST MUST comply as well. Any other person in the house shoudl be told what you are doing(if of age to understand) and they must not get in the middle when you are taking the time to train.

10 minutes a day after my dogs were 12 months old was all it took. Consistancy is a must and you knowing yourself and having confidence in yourself is key.

My dogs know that I am mama, there are no if's and's or but's about it. I mean business and thats it. THere are the occasional ooops and that is ok. No dog or human is perfect. My dogs know who i am and I am fine with letting them out by just opening the door and telling them that command. Once they are outside I tell them the command to go poop and pee. (yes there is a separate commandn for that) I use "take a break" Take a break means get going fast do your business and back to the house fast. Play time is not Break time. Although I get the whole oh wow i see a squirrel and off oldest goes. But again the command I would use for that is phooey then again tell him to go take a break. THere are times i tell him to go pee and then take a break (meaning poop). Some people find saying pee offensive but i dont. My kids say it , I say it and the dogs know it so others can get over it.

It seems like a lot of information for you i know. But I can try to help you if you really want to start. Your first step is knowing that there is a problem and sitting down with your dh and saying hey this is a problem but its really not that bad and with just some reading(the book is not long at all) and some training(really its the way YOU do things) it should help.

I will try to help with any questions

[k9Karen]

Allie knows I'm the alpha (she definitely accepts my husband as the alpha male!), it's just that she likes to challenge that role - usually by barking and turning away from me while she does it. She knows she's not supposed to bark and bark and bark and bark when she goes out, but she does it anyway - with her back turned to me. I do try to get in front of her to give her the 'bad dog' signal, but she's a 17 lb sheltie and FAST on her feet. It's hard to get in front of her or to stay in front for long. It's annoying, especially early in the a.m. or late at night = I don't want her disturbing the neighbors with her barking. It really only lasts a couple of minutes, and I think she does it to announce her presence to the world, express her excitement, and get my attention!

[mamabear]

Actually now that you say this and what she is it makes perfect sense. Well to me and her at least . LOL

She is deaf, has that been confirmed for sure? I am not sure where you live or what is in the neighborhood but when a dog goes outside their defense is their eyes,smell and hearing. That is how they can stalk their prey. When not stalking they bark to announce that they are there and any animals not welcome should leave right now before I get cranky. This is very normal for any dog and with the fact that she is deaf it makes perfect sense that she would bark because she cant hear her prey. Her sense of smell and her eyes and some vibrations on the ground are all she has to work with. In fact since there is a lack of hearing those senses get stronger.

Not saying she should be doing this when you command her to not do it but now I get the reason for her doing this and its not to annoy you at least not from what you say. You might want to go outside with her when you take her a few times to ensure that there is no danger. she is telling you by barking that there is something out there that shouldnt be. Remember they see much better than we do. It might just be a cat or squirrel but still to her it shouldnt be there. If you had her on a leash you could enforce her to stop by having better control and being able to have her close can ensure she does what you say.

Or you can just say oh well this is what she does to protect me and take it as that. I wouldnt encourage this behavior but I sure get why she is doing it.

My oldest goes out and barks his big bad I'm in charge to all you creatures out there bark. I say phooey and he's done unless there is dear or a cow around, then he chases till they are past the property line and i yell to leave it in german and he is done. Walks back like i am the king whooo hooo look at me i did my job. LOL I swear if he could smile he would.

Shelties are great protectors this behavior is so them deaf or not.

[Marty]

I am finding the theory of the oldest dog as alpha dog interesting...I always thought dogs made their own pack order, and things will change when a new dog is introduced. Now I do think the oldest one should be fed first, but not because it is alpha.

Biscotti (my current oldest) will run outside at feeding time, and waits to be fed until the other 2 have eaten. But she has always been funny like that. But I could be reading things wrong.