Looks like we may "inherit" Gabriel....

[Susan and the girls]

Last Mother's Day (2002), we surprised my mother-in-law with a cuddly ball of fur, which she named Gabriel. Remember him? Well, it soon became obvious that his name should have been "Lucifer."

He's quite possibly the roughest, meanest, biting-est, attacking-est cat on earth.

My mother-in-law loves him dearly, and tries SO hard to get him to behave, but just about the time he gives her a "sweet" look and she reaches for him, he lunges at her. He will tolerate only a few minutes of petting before he becomes totally unmanageable. He won't let any of us just pet him. He's vicious!

He has been shredding her furniture, and we've tried (believe me, I've tried with all my might) to trim his claws, but I just can't! (My cats don't like to have their nails done, but they don't sink their teeth in me to the bone like he does!) We took him to my vet's office once to have them show us how, and they made it look SO easy. Of course, we were never able to accomplish it again by ourselves. My MIL frequently says, "You're going to have to go with me again to the vet to get Gabriel's nails trimmed," but she never makes the effort to actually go. (My vet is about 35 minutes from her house, while there's a pet store within a few minutes of her house, but WHY she won't take the initiative and do it on her own is beyond me. After all, he's HER cat, but every time he needs something, she calls me to help her get it done.....)

She "decided" last week that she simply could not keep him. I had asked the person from whom we got him about taking him back and she said she would, but that he would have to live outside. (She lives VERY close to the raod.) Gabriel has never lived outside. My MIL lives in a small quiet neighborhood far from the major road, but she hasn't let Gabriel outside at all. (I've encouraged her to keep him inside for his safety.) Now she says she hates to give him up but that she can't tolerate the attacks anymore. I almost wish she would let him be an indoor-outdoor cat (yes, I know, it's going against everything I've ever preached about cats).

I think a BIG part of the aggression problem is the fact that she's gone to work from 7:30 am til about 5:30 or later every day, and she goes to bed around 9:30. She doesn't let him stay in her room with her at night or while she's getting ready in the morning, and so he really only gets about 3 hours of interaction a day. I think he's simly had enough of being alone, and takes out his frustrations in a rough way! That's why I think that it would help if he'd at least get his entertainment outside some during the day and wouldn't take his frustrations out on her!

Rob announced to me yesterday that he wanted US to take Gabriel with us to our new house and let him live outside. We have a 10 foot privacy fence around the back yard, and SweetPea is definitely coming with us. She's used to the outdoors, but Gabriel isn't.

Honestly, I don't want Gabriel inside. My girls are so gentle, and so tame, and so NOT vicious, and I don't want to stress them out. We've gone that route with trying to bring SweetPea inside, and she's a total doll who doesn't EVER harm even a flea. I can't imagine the behavioral problems I'd have with my girls if I combined MOVING into a new house with moving the devil-cat in with them. They'd revolt!

What should I do? We hate to take him to the animal shelter, since he'd probably never get adopted - and if he was, they'd bring him right back - and we hate to put him outside, but really there's not an option.

Help?

[Tina B and crew]

Oh Susan...I am sorry you have this dilemma with Gabriel. It definitely sounds like he has over stimulation aggression and boredom combined. Poor kitty What I say is weigh the options considering Gabriel's well being in all of them. It is always my philosophy that when one adopts, one adopts for life...but I don't hold to that like a brick wall in all cases...the cats wellbeing must be considered. Did your mother in law know about Gabriel before you gave him to her? (I remember when all this happened, but don't recall the details...age you know LOL) If it wasn't totally her idea then this is where I bend a little with that rule. I have a friend who is going through a very similar issue..but that's another post.

I'd definitely say no to taking him to a shelter. My concern about adopting him out to someone else is just as yours...they would bring him back. Have you considered consulting a behaviorist? Expensive I know...but it is an option. If that is out of the question, you could try to adopt him out yourself, using petfinder.org, but you would have to screen very carefully and make sure you found someone who would be willing to take him, warts and all. I too strongly disagree with having cats outdoors, but if this is your only solution (taking him yourself and introducing him to the outdoors), then I'd say do it...especially if it saves him from a shelter. We can all preach on and on about what we should and should not do with cats, but sometimes the options run thin and we have to go against our philosophy for the sake of the cat.

Lastly, I am a big, big opponent of declawing...I absolutely despise it and would never ever ever do it to my cats or tell someone to do it to theirs. However, I have to somewhat agree with my vets philosophy. She is also a huge opponent of declawing and she does not offer the service at her practice...but she told me this once-if it is the only way a cat can stay in the home happily then it is a better option than having the cat either thrown out, taken to a shelter or yelled at all the time-she doesn't oppose it in those cases...as a very last resort...however she would look at behavior modification first. Just a thought (and please folks...you all know how I feel about this..I'm just offering some thoughts)

I hope it all works out best for Gabriel Susan...I know you are probably torn up over this.

[Traci]

Susan, I have a different view. It sounds like Gabriel and your MIL simply don't have a bond, or are not compatible. That doesn't mean he won't be for you and Rob, and as a matter of fact, I'd be willing to bet he would fair well inside with your other cats, as long as you attempt to make that committment. What have you got to lose in trying?

As for the privacy fence, if it's not enclosed, it's moot. I do NOT advocate 'rehoming' a cat outdoors once they have already been acclimated indoors only, in my opinion, this is asking for disaster (running away, outdoor hazards, etc)

I know you didn't want to hear that from me, but if it were me, I'd give him a chance at acclimating with you, Rob and your other kitties indoors, perhaps all he needs is siblings to play with, bond with, perhaps he would take more to you and Rob than your MIL, you'll never know until you try.

[Susan and the girls]

You both know me well enough by now to believe me when I say that I want the best for Gabriel. You both (Tina & Traci) see the obvious issues I've brought up, and it's clear that you understand (without my even saying) a lot of what's going on here.

Gabriel *was* a surprise gift to my MIL, and I truly wish we hadn't ever given him to her at all. I've not liked the "setup" from the get-go. I'm the type of person that lets my cats go anywhere and everywhere. I realize that while they know where the limits are - like not to get on the counters (at least while I'm looking - lol) or not to scratch the furniture - they're still not human enough to realize WHY. It's up to us to teach them how to behave, and when they don't behave, we figure out WHY and deal with it. And it's up to us to keep them occupied enough and give them enough activity to keep them from acting out. In Gabriel's case, he gets 10 times more vicious when my MIL goes away for the weekend to visit family (and we check in on him). He's not so vicious to Rob when he goes into the house to check on him, but he simply eats my MIL up when she gets home. It's like he's saying, "That'll show ya...." (And don't worry - I don't really think that's what he's saying -- I do realize they don't reason or get revenge. I just think he's been alone too long, and the very fact that there's someone there to give him some attention is simply too overstimulating.)

As far as the claws go, no declawing in my book, ever. He doesn't use his claws as much as he does his teeth. He would probably REALLY become vicious if he was declawed. You'd really have to pull his teeth to make him less dangerous.... LOL And that's quite certain NEVER to happen!

Gabriel loves Rob. He does try to bite occasionally, but he attacks Rob less.

I know we simply can't take him to the shelter. No one would want him after they got bitten a few times. And I hate to leave him with my MIL, too. Don't get me wrong - she doesn't mistreat him, but she uses some discipline techniques that I just can't tolerate. She smacks him (not hard, but a smack is a smack....) on the hindquarters, which (if you ask me) is only asking for a harder bite from him. Wouldn't you bite harder if someone smacked you? It's a self-defense mode. The water bottle doesn't help, and he doesn't listen to "No." It's just a different world than what I'm used to. My girls are simply perfect kitties, and maybe I'm spoiled, but I'd rather not upset the apple cart.

I guess I feel somewhat responsible for this cat, since I got him for her. I don't think I should have to find a new home for him, but I'm afraid that she might just decide to put him out one day when he's especially mean, and that might be the last time we ever see him again.

He was a cuddly cute kitty when we got him - only 6 weeks old, and precious, loving, and not mean.... but he got meaner and meaner as time went on. He's unreasonable now, and he's a year and three months old. He's about 15-17 pounds of solid cat - not fat, but HUGE, and formidable when he gets going.

Oh, what to do.....????

[Tina B and crew]

Susan...this is probably not a solution either you or your mother want to hear...but do you think he would do better if he had a playmate?

[Traci]

I'd rather stick to my guns on this one. It's apparent he feels a connection to Rob, and as you know, cats choose their humans, it sounds like he's chosen Rob. I think it also depends on the techniques used for behavioral issues, as you've already described the differences between those of your MIL and what you would prefer. It also sounds like he is bored or something is amiss that he's not comfortable/happy with in his present environment (picking up on your MIL's stress for example). Not knowing how much your MIL has applied or committed to Gabriel, it sounds like you could do a better job, sorry, that is not meant in a harsh way against your MIL. Some cats and humans simply do not bond, and I think this is one of those situations.

He's still young enough, Susan, to adapt to a new environment, new siblings, a new bond. I'd follow Rob's heart on this!!

[Susan and the girls]

Rob seems to think Gabriel will "beat up" my other cats. I tried to explain to him that cats don't think, "I'm bigger than you are, so I'll beat you up." Instead, I think they see THREE other cats that obviously OWN the house, and think (not really think - I know, I know), "GOLLY! THREE?? They're gonna kill me!" (LOL)

I think I should give my girls time to spread their scent all over the new house (there will be new carpet, but old furniture), and THEN attempt to put Gabriel in the middle of it. Who knows, they may "THINK" that he came with the house.

Speaking of a cat coming with the house, in the past three days I haven't seen the little stray tabby that has peeked in the windows at me (at the new house) while I painted. I hope it sticks around.... I'm a sucker for cute kittens. (It appears to be about 6-7 months old....it is small, and quite friendly, but not touchable just yet.)

Sigh.... I'll let you know what goes down with Gabriel, and how things work out..... the saga continues....

[Susan and the girls]

Oh Traci --- one more question....

Do you really think he's still young enough that I can undo the damage done by all the time he's spent with my MIL? (Not that she's bad to live with, it's just that I don't think she's as in love with animals as I am. She actually likes dogs better, but I can't imagine how a dog would feel cooped up all day and night and not interacted with. Most dogs have even more social needs than cats.)

I mean, how on EARTH do I discipline a cat that's been disciplined every way possible and doesn't behave? He bites SO hard. It's unbearable. I come away from her house with lots of scratches and actual teeth puncture wounds just from simply trying to pet him on the head, and I just don't know what to do with a cat like that.

[Mona]

I agree with Traci about the bonding. Also is Gabriel neutered??
This would definitely help to tame him down.

As for the claws, I would opt for the vet to do this right now.

Rescue Remedy is ideal for introducing new cats and calming them.

Good luck to you, I hope it all works out. Mona, Chloe and HOneybun

[Traci]

Oh Traci --- one more question....
Do you really think he's still young enough that I can undo the damage done by all the time he's spent with my MIL?

Absolutely...some of my own were a little on the wild side when I got them, it only takes as much time and patience as it normally does with a new adoptee. A year and 3 months old kitty can adapt quickly to you and the boundaries you teach him. In Gabriel's situation, I'd think a whole new environment would be a great start for him.

I mean, how on EARTH do I discipline a cat that's been disciplined every way possible and doesn't behave? He bites SO hard. It's unbearable. I come away from her house with lots of scratches and actual teeth puncture wounds just from simply trying to pet him on the head, and I just don't know what to do with a cat like that.

Well, as with any cat, you have to earn his trust, it will take some time and patience on your part, but I'm sure he will soon find that your methods of discipline are acceptable wheras your MIL's were not. He will respond to that. I have the same method as MA, I simply blow into their face and with a stern NO, they usually get the point. MA has a couple other methods you could also try, none of which are harmful or physical in any way. Time-outs can also be a method, I sometimes have to do this with Colby when he incessantly chases Cairo. The point is getting your point across without physical harm, or giving time-outs so that they recognize you are ignoring them and they soon learn to respond to that in order to get your attention and affection. You will find what works best for you and Gabriel.

I'm not saying a miracle is going to occur overnight, just saying that I think Gabriel deserves a chance, and if you and Rob are willing to take him in, I think he will find his new environment much happier, and will therefore become a more adjusted kitty.