ALL POSTS RE: PET FOOD RECALLS GO HERE IN THIS THREAD

[Auntie Debbie]

Where is their error? They only report what has already been reported in the media. The blogs they post are just that...blogs...much like this message board. Not everyone has your knowledge of the pet food industry and frankly as far as Hills and the other "good" foods are concerned, it's true they are a superieor product, especially with ther prescriptions for certain condition, but, how good are they really when they're putting in the same crap that they put in the WalMart cans?
I have emailed the manufacturing companies with some qudstions, numerous media outlets, government people on getting some of this investigated and such and no one, I mean no one has returned any responses.
Sorry if I've misled anyone with trying to keep up with the recalls.
And since your post is for everyone, you could have pm'd me with your thoughts pertaining to apparently just me!

[Traci]

I really don't have time for this today, which is the reason I posted the "notes" post.

Since it is an issue, here goes:

The below Eukanuba prescribed foods are not part of the Menu Foods recall, but were the subject of an FDA warning letter because they contain a prohibited food supplement, chromium tripicolinate, the safety of which has not been studied in dogs or cats.Chromium tripicolinate has been linked to acute renal failure in humans. The Iams Co. has not stated a date by which time the compound - which continues to be listed as an ingredient on the Iams Web site - would be removed.
Eukanuba Veterinary Diets Optimum Weight Control dry
Restricted-Calorie/Feline dry and canned

FACT:Chromium tripicolinate in Iams or Eukanuba foods are a SEPERATE issue from the pet food recall and currently, Iams is working with the FDA in presenting research into their utilization of chromium tripicolinate.

Several days ago, we started reading reports of dry food possibly making pets sick, specifically Iams. We then asked our readers to provide their experience to us. Here’s what we found:

Number of pets covered: 134 (47 cats, 87 dogs)
Reported ARF (Acute Renal Failure): 24 (17%) 15 cats, 9 dogs

Cat Deaths: 20 | Cat Illnesses: 26
Dog Deaths: 9 | Dog Illnesses: 77

Since our report, one DRY food from Hills has been recalled so far.

We caution you against accepting this as the final word as these are self-reported numbers from parents who have been reading about other sick or dying pets. Given the caveats, the brands that really stood out were Iams, Nutro, and Science Diet. We expected quite a few Iams reports since the survey results from posts about sick pets who ate Iams, (read about Menu Foods’ exclusive contract with Iams) but the Nutro reports seemed to have come from nowhere. Of the 5 reported deaths parents linked to Nutro, 3 were from Acute Renal Failure. 3 ARF deaths were reportedly linked with Science Diet and 7 were linked with Iams. There may be legitimate reason why some brands are on this list, for example, Science Diet may be recommended by vets to particularly sick pets.

Our numbers are not enough data to make any conclusive decision, but some correlations were highly troubling. We are highly in favor of a statistically correct and significant study of dry food-related problems. And we’d love to hear your thoughts in our comments.

Number of Specific Cat Food Brand Reported:

Iams: 17 (ARF: 5 dead, 1 sick)
Purina: 6 (ARF: 1 dead)
Science Diet: 5 (ARF: 3 dead)
Nutro: 4 (ARF: 1 dead, 1 sick)
Special Kitty: 3 (ARF: 1 dead, 2 sick)
Royal Canin: 1 (No ARF)

Number of Specific Dog Food Brand Reported:

ARF reported:
Iams: 21 (ARF: 1 dead, 2 sick)
Nutro: 14 (ARF: 2 dead)
Ol’Roy: 5 (ARF: 1 dead)
Eukanuba: 2 (ARF: 1 sick)
No ARF reported:
Science Diet: 4
Pedigree: 2
Purina: 2
Authority: 1
Beneful: 1
Natural Balance: 1
Trader Joe’s: 1

Where did this site get their "statistics"? These are ANECDOTAL reports, and unless and until they are confirmed by an authority (manufacturer, laboratory testing unit, FDA), they are UNSUBSTANTIATED. This is what happens when sites like this "report" based on anecdotes, propgation ensues and the issue is compounded with INACCURATE information.

Reports of Iams dry dog food problems:

* Seattle P-I
* Gothamist First Reports
* Gothamist Second Report

Colorado paper reports FDA investigating food not on the recall list.

FACT: WHERE on this "media" list is it mentioned that Iams dry DOG foods were part of the recall list? Anecdotal, and UNCONFIRMED information.

WHERE on this list is it mentioned that Science Diet dry DOG foods were part of the recall list?

This site has repeatedly offered to post anecdotal complaints from users, yet, anecdotal, unconfirmed reports are not evidence. This is a clearinghouse site for owners to post whatever they want, whether true or false. People need to understand there are thousands of pets who develop renal disfunction on a daily basis, it should NOT be assumed that the pet foods NOT on the recall list were responsible, unless or until that has been substantiated by owners' veterinarians, laboratory testing, manufacturer and FDA findings.

Anecdotal scenario: "oh my god, I didn't feed my dog any of the recalled pet food, but I fed him this brand and he got sick, I am going to sue MenuFoods!"

Never do you see any evidence with a public forum, never do you see a veterinarian's report of the pet, never do you see laboratory findings that do or do not confirm any findings. Owners have been repeatedly given information on WHAT TO DO if they suspect their pet's illness was caused by a recalled pet food, or even if it wasn't recalled. Vet, manufacturer, FDA. Until cases are confirmed by authoritive methods, it is all anecdotal.

FACT: http://us.iams.com/iams/global/Product_Recall.htm
FACT: http://www.hillspet.com/menu_foods/mdFA ... _en_US.htm

Do not assume I am a die-hard advocate for pet food manufacturers. Assume only that I am as concerned as the rest of you, and I expect that information posted on THIS forum is accurate, that misinformation is not propogated, and that pet owners who are directly affected are responsible for contacting their own veterinarian and following proper channels they are instructed to follow.

Yes, it is entirely possible that other pet foods may be discovered to contain contaminants, but at this point in time, it appears the manufacturers acted in a prompt manner to test their products, and notified the public as soon as they had the information available. Do you really think these manufacturers want to risk putting their reputation on the line and risk losing the public's trust? Think about it.

The media is oftentimes helpful, and likewise, they are often damaging. The media does not always report accurate information either. Which is why I repeatedly suggest checking the individual manufacturer's website notices, and the FDA's recall/updates site.

And again, remember that the manufacturers TRUSTED their suppliers, just as YOU trusted the manufacturer. They are every bit as angered and disappointed as you.

Try not to expect everyone you've written, to respond. Imagine the thousands of calls and letters they need to address on an hourly/daily basis. Unless it affects YOUR pet, and unless you have gone through the proper channels as directed, you probably shouldn't expect a personal response. The manufacturers and the FDA update on their sites when appropriate, this is the only affective means to get information out to a large body of concerned pet owners, and in as timely manner as possible.

As I sated, this wasn't directed soley to you, but to ALL posters. Don't take it personally, but I don't have the means to be active on the forums nor PM's at this point in time. The issue concerns everyone.

[knulp51]

had a friend whose cat got sick within the last few days, she had checked on the box, sealed with pouches in it and the bar code on the box was not one of the recalled products. She opened it, feeling this was safe to feed her cat and a few days later, her cat got ill. She checked the pouches and the bar code on the pouches was different then the one that was on the outside of the box. She called Iams and they offered her food, or if they would want her to pay her vet bills, doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure that one out. I told her to go to a large clinic and the cat is in complete renal failure and has been hospitalized, lets hope he makes it, he is only 2.

[Tambrey]

ooohhh.....at least they are willing to offer vet payments...prayers that the kitty pulls through

[Traci]

Look, I'm not saying the possibility is not there, I'm saying ONLY through the pet's veterinarian, and going through proper channels as instructed, will determine UNCONFIRMED reports of NON-recalled pet foods containing contaminants.

knulp51, yours is an anecdotal story, and it's up to the pet owner and their vet to decide if the pet food should be tested, in order to confirm or not confirm the pet food was suspect. Mind you, I am NOT undermining the seriousness of the problem, nor the seriousness of your friend's cat suffering illness.

I repeat, in case some of you are not listening:

There are numerous reasons a pet can develop renal problems, suddenly or over a short amount of time. Sometimes it is coincidental, sometimes it is not. This is what happens when you get a major recall, everyone starts saying this and that, and before long, none of the information is accurate at all. It is the pet owner's responsibility to get their pet tested by their vets. Only the vet can determine through proper history taking, symptoms, labwork, response to treatment, whether or not a pet food fed was responsible.

If I see any anecdotal claims and stories ensue on this forum, I WILL consider suspending/banning users who post them. What more do I have to say to make that clear?

No, I'm not suppressing your right to vent about the pet food recall, and the risks to pets. I am however, not going to let this forum become a base for misinformation and anecdotal information.

[Auntie Debbie]

Knulp51, I hope your friend's kitty will pull through. That is just so very sad, especially since your friend was trying to be diligent about avoiding recalled products. Seems this board isn't insterested in my opinions or comments on the pet food crisis, but please just be so very careful and keep up with the recall updates and don't be afraid to question things that make you feel uneasy. Your friend's kitty is in my prayers.

[Traci]

That isn't true, Debbie, I never said you couldn't post opinions and comments. I said I expect links posted are not misinformation and propogation of misinformation.

I wish I had the time to say what I truly want to say. Do you think I am not as frustrated and disgusted as you and millions of other pet owners? Do you think I haven't re-evaluated the trust I place in my pet food's manufacturers? Do you think I'm not concerned with your pets, everyone else's pets? If you truly think that about me, then I'm sorry. I guess everything I've said or done on this site has been in vain?

[Auntie Debbie]

No Traci I really don't think that of you, at least I hope not. But this is a huge topic, and there is alot of info out there, both good and bad, right, wrong and in between. People need to vent, question, and mull it all over and compare notes. That is a fact. Another fact is that there are products that were recalled when they found melamine in them. Why weren't they recalled when it was thought that rat poison was in the food? This is partially where the mistrust stems from along with just when did MF know about thier problem. Again, with so many reporting their pets sick on dry, don't you think that really needs to be at least looked into?
Purina alone has been very evasive with their FAQs. At one point they listed some FAQs. I'd think the #1 FAQ would be where they're getting their gluten from. Nothing mentioned. A week later they pulled Alpo due to Melamin, which I would think, based on the wheat gluten used, they would have pulled the crap when it was thought that rat poison was in it. They then came out with some more FAQs, admitting they got some bad gluten from China after all...and still they fail to mention their new manufacturing plant in China. Do you not wonder why I urge people to question what they are feeding their pets and not to just do it blindly or just because the manufacturers site says, "Yeah, we're good"
In Knulps friends cats' case, I doubt if it was a coincidence since the pouches were the recalled ones..unfortunately the outside box had different lot numbers listed.
And to make all matters worse, they still don't know exactly what is causing the deaths...rat poison, melamine, vitamin K, vitamin D...this has been going on for some time now, one lab says rat poison, another one says no rat poison. With all the rocket scientists in this country alone, still no one can figure this one out?
Even the vets in this country are saying there is a huge spike in ARF...coincidence?
Sorry to be whatever, but this is a huge topic right now and I really think you're mnissing an opportunity here to let people get some relief by leaning on each other and comparing notes. It is a forum, like the other blogs, not everything needs to be 100% fact..opinions are just opinions...maybe we can learn from each other or become more educated and not be so gung ho on feeding our pets stuff without question.
Sorry for taking up more of your time.

[Tina B and crew]

No, Traci, you have done nothing in vain, in fact you have always been a great help even if we don't always agree. I certainly hope I did not overstep my bounds by saying I "wondered" if this could be what caused Frodo's renal failure since it was possible I had fed her the Iam's food that was recalled...I was simply wondering. I have not proof and will never have proof. Frodo is gone and if it was the food I'll never know. Am I angry at the possibility? Hell yes but I'd never consider telling anyone that it was the food that made her sick. I do have my suspicions, but like I said, I have no proof. I just want to avoid anything happening to my other cats. People are scared for their furbabies and sometimes we don't think when we are scared. I don't think anyone intends to step on anyone elses toes.

[Traci]

Debbie (and to all posters),

I agree with you, most if not all you wrote are extremely valid points, and I appreciate that you want to be proactive in helping pets and their owners. That's exactly what we should ALL be doing here, and one of the hallmarks of this site/forum.

My gripe is that the site link posted is another "we must blame everyone under the sun", and it allows every tom, dick and harry to say whatever they want without substantiating the evidence. Remember proheart, the numerous problems with hartz (especially the sites with millions of "anonymous" posts), pet foods on ANY given day, forget the recall, etc etc etc....this forum is not going to be turned into that.

I have absolutely no problem with users talking about it, about questioning, about investigating on their own, about being here for each other for support.

I can, in fact, try to answer a couple of your questions:

To my knowledge, MenuFoods did not expedite a recall because they were unsure of the exact contaminant, and were undergoing investigation of their supplier for wheat gluten. Also remember that the main supplier denies they were the culprit, and explained to both MenuFoods and the FDA that they outsourced from NUMEROUS other suppliers in China in obtaining wheat gluten. Imagine how much time and money it would employ to trace the contaminant, and then to trace all lots of pet foods marketed with that single, or possibly, multiple source of wheat gluten. Also remember that the FDA can't just imply libel on a company without sufficient evidence, and it takes time to trace the original source. This is probably why they didn't, and cannot yet, identify the true, originating source.

As for the melamine, that's anyone's guess. Since it was a marker for the wheat gluten, it stands to reason that the supplier or, multiple sources of the wheat gluten obviously went wrong somewhere. Such is the problem with imports/exports. Unfortunately, there is no data to determine toxic effects in cats/dogs. Any animal scientist with a brain however, knows that cats cannot metabolize numerous compounds and it would stand to reason melamine would be a compound cats cannot metabolize. It may also be determined that the percentage of melamine found may not in fact, be in toxic proportions, although it would seem unlikely. I, like you, await the tests, the data, and information.

I wish I could answer the question about the aminopterin. It is my understanding that the two labs in question continue to believe the aminopterin existed in some of the recalled pet foods. However, until they post more information on their findings, it's nearly impossible to get more information. The FDA said it was unable to find aminopterin in the pet foods, and since it is banned in the US, I'm fairly certain that wherever it came from, will be getting a heavy backlash from the FDA, as well as from pet food manufacturers.

As for Purina, I haven't been following their updates or FAQ's and I certainly cannot speak for them, but my best guess is they were waiting on test results, just as every other pet food manufacturer was. Unfortunately, this takes time, precious time, and results can be conflicting. Imagine the scope of testing numerous batches from different foods, different plants, not knowing exactly what you're testing for. Remember, some were testing for rodenticides, some were testing for unknown contaminants (molds, heavy metals, etc), the process of testing for contaminants is extremely involved.

The Vit D issue is thanks to PETA. I wouldn't put much stock into anything PETA reports or demands. Of course, there is always a potential of increased (or decreased) percentages of any vitamin or mineral in which the manufacturer would take steps to correct. You don't hear about this often, because conscientious manufacturers have spent years and lots of money into their research and understanding of balancing these vitamins and minerals.

In knulp51's case, it was mentioned that the bar code from the pouches didn't match the bar code from the box. How this occured is beyond me, it could have happened as a result from a pet store's circulating of products, or a packaging problem at a plant, etc. The pet store should have been contacted first, and the pet store should then have called Iams themselves and asked for an explaination, so they could also check remaining stock and act as necessary. Iam's admitting they would send a replacement or offer to pay a vet bill is not admittance of any wrong doing. They could offer to do so based soley on exemplary customer service. If Iams felt the owner had a legitimate complaint with recalled pet food, they would probably suggest the owner send in a sample to be tested.

As for ARF incidences, it will be determined if those cases are in fact, a result of recalled pet food. But, also understand that ARF can occur as a result of numerous other factors. Spring is upon us and cats and dogs are outdoors and exposure to environmental hazards should also be taken into consideration. I'm not making an excuse, lest you think I am, but these things MUST be taken into consideration, and is the norm when a pet is exhibiting such symptoms.

Again, I have no problem with expressing opinions here, or sharing. But, I do have a problem with posting anecdotal information, which ONLY serves to worry pet owners further, and gets them wrapped up in invalid information. OUR job on this forum, has always been, accurate, legitimate information, the pet food recall should be no different in terms of posting here. Please understand that distinction.

Tina, I understand your concerns, and rightfully so. However, and only in my opinion, from all your posts, it doesn't truly seem likely that food was the culprit. The majority of vets agree that when pets eat recalled pet food, the symptoms occur rather suddenly, particularly vomiting soon after ingestion, and subsequent symptoms follow soon after. I too, would be feeling and wondering the same things, and it is unfortunate that you may never know for certain. (((HUGS)))