Need some advice on my little Pom....Huey....
Need some advice on my little Pom....Huey....
I can't believe I have to post again so soon after losing my other little Pom, Trevor, just two weeks ago tonight. But...here goes. My little Huey is 9 years old. I come home at lunch time every day to feed him and let him out and spend time with him. He always barks up a storm and carries on - he's so excited when I get home. Today...it was as usual. He was barking and making noises.....so much so that he coughed a little - not unusual - depending on the sound he makes I think it tickles his throat sometimes and makes a little cough. Anyway, I turned to go into the bathroom....he's barking and acting as usual.....he always follows me into the bathroom barking at me the whole way. This time he didn't....there was no noise....I rushed back out and he was laying on his side about a foot from where I left him. There was no paddling of his legs or anything....he did make one sort of a yelp...I think they call it vocalization....he drew up his little paws towards his face and I picked him. Immediately the paws relaxed, he relaxed and I just held him. He was breathing just a little fast - could be from all the barking and carrying on or from what was apparently a seizure. I held him a few minutes until I thought he was better and his little ears perked up. Set him down.....he was fine. Asked him if he wanted his lunch....started barking like usual. He ate fine, went outside fine....drank some water - everything normal. Now......I'm very sure this was a seizure. He did something similar in Jan of this year and again in August. Both times it was when he was all excited and carrying on. IN fact, those times I thought he was starting to choke a little - he was all excited about getting treats and I thought he didn't swallow properly. Both times he improved as soon as I picked him up. This time was the only time he made a sound. The other two times his legs were moving a little, but not today. Yes, I'm going to take him to the vet but I wanted to hear what some of you thought. I read on the internet that often vocalizations in a seizure could indicate heart problems....syncope (sp?). Other sites said that vocalizations can occur during a seizure - not necessarily caused by heart problems. What do you think? Based on what I described, do you think it was simply a canine epilepsy episode or an indication of a heart problem? He's never had heart problems and his blood tests have always been good. He's a very healthy little guy. I guess the good this is he's only had 3 of these in a year's time. I just hope this isn't the beginning of something awful about to happen to him. Any ideas, thoughts, etc. would be appreciated. Thanks.....Vicki
Re: Need some advice on my little Pom....Huey....
Only your vet will be able to determine, with a thorough exam and bloodwork, +/- xrays/ECG or ultrasound.
My guess is seizures, since it's happened three times, and all have been similar symptoms displayed. It could be caused by external stimuli, stress, or organ disfunction etc. A heart workup is in order, this is generally a good idea on any senior pet and especially when seizures occur. There may or may not be a heart condition surfacing but it is something you want to rule out. Bloodwork, as in both a CBC and chemical profile should also be done to monitor vital organ function, helpful to detect infection, inflammation, etc. These are minimal procedures, including xrays, ECG and lutrasound if necessary....an MRI may be helpful if your vet suspected a hidden tumor, but don't jump the gun in thinking that just yet.
The problem with seizures is that you cannot predict their occurance, frequency or number or duration. They can subside or they can get considerably worse. Diagnostic workup is in order, promptly. Your vet may opt to treat for seizures in the immediate sense, but the underlying cause needs to be determined.
Seizure activity varies per pet....some pets do vocalize minimally, others not at all. Most of the time, vocalizations sound like whimpers or deep cries, but neither should be a basis for diagnosis.
My guess is seizures, since it's happened three times, and all have been similar symptoms displayed. It could be caused by external stimuli, stress, or organ disfunction etc. A heart workup is in order, this is generally a good idea on any senior pet and especially when seizures occur. There may or may not be a heart condition surfacing but it is something you want to rule out. Bloodwork, as in both a CBC and chemical profile should also be done to monitor vital organ function, helpful to detect infection, inflammation, etc. These are minimal procedures, including xrays, ECG and lutrasound if necessary....an MRI may be helpful if your vet suspected a hidden tumor, but don't jump the gun in thinking that just yet.
The problem with seizures is that you cannot predict their occurance, frequency or number or duration. They can subside or they can get considerably worse. Diagnostic workup is in order, promptly. Your vet may opt to treat for seizures in the immediate sense, but the underlying cause needs to be determined.
Seizure activity varies per pet....some pets do vocalize minimally, others not at all. Most of the time, vocalizations sound like whimpers or deep cries, but neither should be a basis for diagnosis.
..........Traci
Re: Need some advice on my little Pom....Huey....
Huey went to the vet tonight - they took blood to do a complete check and we will be back next week for x-rays and EKG and blood pressure check. They said he has a grade 3-4 heart murmur - this is new. He didn't have it in June of this year. So now that we know that the vet is thinking perhaps these were not seizures by syncope episodes. I guess the x-rays and EKG will tell us a whole lot more. I'm just hoping and praying that this isn't the beginning of the end for my little one. I know dogs can live for years with heart murmurs - my first Pom had one for quite a few years and died at age 14. Huey is 9 1/2 right now. So...if anyone has any thoughts on syncope/heart murmurs I'd appreciate it. Thanks folks!
Re: Need some advice on my little Pom....Huey....
It's possible the heart murmur was present in June but missed or didn't "sound" concerning upon that exam at the time. The presence of a heart murmur does not necessarily confirm a cardiac cause for syncope, although heart disease does indeed need to be ruled out.
The problem with syncope is that it needs to be differentiated from other states of temporary unconsciousness, because the event can mimic a seizure. Syncope almost always results in a state of unconsciousness (with rapid recovery), whereas seizure activity doesn't usually result in unconsciousness (unless it is so severe to cause a comatose state), with some seizures also with a rapid recovery. Another difference is that syncope usually results in total muscle flaccidity whereas seizures involve some muscle activity, regardless of how slight. Adding to the confusion is the different symptoms, like stress, coughing, swallowing, loss of bladder or bowel functions, or when the event occurs directly after exercise or activity....all of these symptoms can mimic a seizure event too. The typical rule outs are cardiac disease, neurological or neuromuscular disease, narcolepsy, specific organ disfunction, to name a few.
Did your vet also test urine and blood glucose?
The ECG will probably be the most useful diagnostic at this point, providing bloodwork/urinalysis is normal. Xrays can help determine size and shape of the heart, (enlargement for example, is a sign of heart disease, cardiomyopathies). Am wondering why the vet didn't do the ECG now?
The problem with syncope is that it needs to be differentiated from other states of temporary unconsciousness, because the event can mimic a seizure. Syncope almost always results in a state of unconsciousness (with rapid recovery), whereas seizure activity doesn't usually result in unconsciousness (unless it is so severe to cause a comatose state), with some seizures also with a rapid recovery. Another difference is that syncope usually results in total muscle flaccidity whereas seizures involve some muscle activity, regardless of how slight. Adding to the confusion is the different symptoms, like stress, coughing, swallowing, loss of bladder or bowel functions, or when the event occurs directly after exercise or activity....all of these symptoms can mimic a seizure event too. The typical rule outs are cardiac disease, neurological or neuromuscular disease, narcolepsy, specific organ disfunction, to name a few.
Did your vet also test urine and blood glucose?
The ECG will probably be the most useful diagnostic at this point, providing bloodwork/urinalysis is normal. Xrays can help determine size and shape of the heart, (enlargement for example, is a sign of heart disease, cardiomyopathies). Am wondering why the vet didn't do the ECG now?
..........Traci
Re: Need some advice on my little Pom....Huey....
By ECK, do you mean EKG? If so, they're doing the EKG at the same time they do the xrays....and also take his blood pressure. They're doing it while I wait - I didn't want to leave him there all day. I'm not sure what to think....some of these episodes involved leg paddling, some did not. One involved vocalization - the others did not. In all of them he recovered very quickly. And in all of them it came on very suddenly...no warning at all. This is all kind of hard right....it was just 2 1/2 weeks ago that I lost my other little Pom. I can't believe I'm going through something this serious already with Huey. Like I said before, I just hope and pray that this isn't the beginning of the end for my little guy...perhaps I'll feel better once all these test results are in and I have a more definite idea of what we're dealing with. Thanks Traci.
Re: Need some advice on my little Pom....Huey....
ECG= electrocardiography, which looks at electrical impulse created by the heart's activity. Leads are attached to pulse points on the body and impulse waves are recorded, this is a non-evasive procedure, usually only takes 10 minutes or so.
Echocardiography is also useful to see the heart's structure, and find problems related to heart disease, it is like a cardiac ultrasound. Depending on xray evaluation and ECG results, your vet may also want to include an echocardiogram.
Yes, it's going to be a diagnostic challenge, but don't put it off, the sooner diagnostics can either rule out suspicions or diagnose a condition, the sooner it can be treated.
Echocardiography is also useful to see the heart's structure, and find problems related to heart disease, it is like a cardiac ultrasound. Depending on xray evaluation and ECG results, your vet may also want to include an echocardiogram.
Yes, it's going to be a diagnostic challenge, but don't put it off, the sooner diagnostics can either rule out suspicions or diagnose a condition, the sooner it can be treated.
..........Traci
Re: Need some advice on my little Pom....Huey....
Ok...I always knew it referred to as an EKG but we're talking about the same test. Huey's appointment is next Wedneday at 1:00. I asked if they could do it while I wait - I didn't want to leave him there all day. They said yes, so they'll run the tests and then I'll take him home and be with him the rest of the day. They didn't know if they'd need to give him a mild sedation or not - depends on how he is. He's pretty good about having things done to him - he's real laid back about things so hopefully they won't have to give him anything. We're keeping Huey's excitement level down so as not to trigger anything. Knowing that he gets real excited when I come home and he hears the key - as soon as I get in I pick him up and hold him with one arm while I put stuff down with the other. If I didn't, he'd be running around barking and getting all excited. Same with his lunch - I held him quite a bit as I was fixing it because he gets so excited knowing he's about to be fed.
Re: Need some advice on my little Pom....Huey....
I doubt it would require sedation, most pets are comfortable, all it usually takes is a calming voice, tender hands and the procedure is done in minutes.
..........Traci