Hey guys, were new here. Someone asked me to post my problem on this forum, so... one of my cats Tage... has grown sick.
He's almost 5 years old, male, neutered, had a bad URI when a very young kitten, and Chronic Conjunctive Herpes which flares up occasionally but is generally controlled.
Other then this he has always been healthy.
We recently moved to a new place, and since then I've been noticing piles of vomit on the floor on and off, maybe once a week or a few times a week, usually in the afternoon between breakfast and supper.
A couple nights ago I figured out which cat it was. Projectile vomit, bile very liquidy/clear for the most part and some specks of brown/red in it, which would dry hard, almost like grains of sand.
He also took to hiding at bed time last week, very unusual for him.
I brought him to the vet, they did blood work, urinalysis, fecal (which I need to collect and turn in.)
His check up went find, blood work was generally normal, but the urine had an eleviated amount of White Blood Cells in it, he was also found to be a bit dehydrated.
He eats a raw diet twice a day, has been on it for at least 8 months and my whole gang has done great, they also have a cat water fountain and I'm considering adding some more water in with his meals.
The vet told me to give him a small dose of Pepcid AC once in the morning to help settle his stomach. So far so good.
Any idea's of what's going on?
*UPDATE* Cat Vomiting Bile & Other Stuff, WBC in Urine
Re: Cat Vomiting Bile & Other Stuff, WBC in Urine
Moving is the number one cause of stress in cats, which can lead to Hepatic Lipidosis. Did you keep stress reduced at all times during the move? Does he seem extremely depressed and withdrawn? If so, you need to ask your vet to double-check bloodwork and rule out possible liver degeneration.AngelZoo wrote:We recently moved to a new place, and since then I've been noticing piles of vomit on the floor on and off, maybe once a week or a few times a week, usually in the afternoon between breakfast and supper.
Probably blood, as a result of irritation in the stomach lining, due to frequent wretching and vomiting. Although, you should rule out the potential he could have ingested something toxic (i.e., plant, chemical, etc)A couple nights ago I figured out which cat it was. Projectile vomit, bile very liquidy/clear for the most part and some specks of brown/red in it, which would dry hard, almost like grains of sand.
"generally normal", but was there any indication of elevated enzymes? And if so, which ones?His check up went find, blood work was generally normal, but the urine had an eleviated amount of White Blood Cells in it, he was also found to be a bit dehydrated.
We do not advocate raw diets for cats, and your vet should probably be looking for potential bacterial infection from tainted meat. A fecal exam may need to be repeated. A raw diet shouldn't be fed to an ill cat anyway. It's also entirely possible your kitty is reacting to the raw diet, or ingredients/supplements you may be adding. Did your vet address this with you?He eats a raw diet twice a day, has been on it for at least 8 months and my whole gang has done great, they also have a cat water fountain and I'm considering adding some more water in with his meals.
Excessive vomiting needs to be investigated further, as mentioned above. Were x-rays done? Did your vet suggest a new diet? If he suspects a urinary tract infection, this needs to be addressed further. If your vet isn't addressing this, it's time to see a new vet promptly. If a urinary tract infection is present, it needs to be treated, usually with antibiotics, but you need to rule out potential crystals or blockages, and consider an appropriate diet to keep the pH level controlled. A culture could rule out various bacterials that may not respond to common antibiotics (i.e., staph, strep, pseudomonas which would require strong antibiotics).
..........Traci
Re: Cat Vomiting Bile & Other Stuff, WBC in Urine
I know that moving can be stressfull I have moved several times with my gang. They are kept in one room while the moving is actually being done, and then they are the last to be moved to the new place, and are put into a room in the new place with their familiar things while they settle in a little.
Behavior wise they all seem normal, except for this vomiting. Tage hid for a few nights last week, but he hasn't done it before or since then.
I do agree it is probably blood that I am seeing as when bile is seen that's generally an indication of the stomach being empty, the specks in it could be caused by many things at this point. Though even in the very beginning of the vomiting it existed.
They are indoors only, and I have no indoor plants, I'm also very careful about using any chemicals in and around my home, most of what I use are natural cleaners, etc.
The person who lived here before was a druggie and did not do any up keep on this house, so who knows what he had done to this place. It was also not cleaned at all previous to us moving in, though I tried to clean the majority of the places I could before any of us moved.
I don't know the full results of the blood work, I need to get a copy of them, hopefully today. The vet said she was looking for anything out of the ordinary, but primarily his protein level (which she said was fine.)
At this time, I do not personally feel this is an issue related to his diet. Though my gang has had dietary issues in the past, raw food was the only kind which has helped to keep them healthy and done away with existing health problems.
The diet discussion is up in the air, and if at some point myself and the doctor feel some kind of change to frequency of feeding or type is needed, we will further deal with it then.
Knowing my cats history with how hard it is for them to transition onto a new diet, it would not be a good idea to switch the diet of an already ill cat. He is already dehydrated and constant vomiting of his food and diahrea could do him in on a new food.
If the pepcid-ac yeilds no improvement, and the fecal shows nothing, our next step will include x-rays.
She does not suspect a urinary tract infection at this time. She doesn't really suspect anything as his signs of illness are not conclusive of any one problem.
Tage did however puke up his breakfast about 45 minutes after consuming it. He doesn't eat too fast he gets a small portion with a little extra water mixed in and it takes him around 5-8 minutes to eat it. I handle all my pets foods expectially raw food with care much as I would if I work cooking for myself.
I am currently feeding Nature's Variety Frozen/Raw Lamb. They have been on that for about 1 1/2 weeks now, previous to that it was the Chicken formula.
I am not opposed to feeding a raw diet, I am not solidly opposed to feeding any kind of diet, but I am knowledgable on the subject and do know that no diet will work the same for every pet, this includes prescription diets.
Behavior wise they all seem normal, except for this vomiting. Tage hid for a few nights last week, but he hasn't done it before or since then.
I do agree it is probably blood that I am seeing as when bile is seen that's generally an indication of the stomach being empty, the specks in it could be caused by many things at this point. Though even in the very beginning of the vomiting it existed.
They are indoors only, and I have no indoor plants, I'm also very careful about using any chemicals in and around my home, most of what I use are natural cleaners, etc.
The person who lived here before was a druggie and did not do any up keep on this house, so who knows what he had done to this place. It was also not cleaned at all previous to us moving in, though I tried to clean the majority of the places I could before any of us moved.
I don't know the full results of the blood work, I need to get a copy of them, hopefully today. The vet said she was looking for anything out of the ordinary, but primarily his protein level (which she said was fine.)
At this time, I do not personally feel this is an issue related to his diet. Though my gang has had dietary issues in the past, raw food was the only kind which has helped to keep them healthy and done away with existing health problems.
The diet discussion is up in the air, and if at some point myself and the doctor feel some kind of change to frequency of feeding or type is needed, we will further deal with it then.
Knowing my cats history with how hard it is for them to transition onto a new diet, it would not be a good idea to switch the diet of an already ill cat. He is already dehydrated and constant vomiting of his food and diahrea could do him in on a new food.
If the pepcid-ac yeilds no improvement, and the fecal shows nothing, our next step will include x-rays.
She does not suspect a urinary tract infection at this time. She doesn't really suspect anything as his signs of illness are not conclusive of any one problem.
Tage did however puke up his breakfast about 45 minutes after consuming it. He doesn't eat too fast he gets a small portion with a little extra water mixed in and it takes him around 5-8 minutes to eat it. I handle all my pets foods expectially raw food with care much as I would if I work cooking for myself.
I am currently feeding Nature's Variety Frozen/Raw Lamb. They have been on that for about 1 1/2 weeks now, previous to that it was the Chicken formula.
I am not opposed to feeding a raw diet, I am not solidly opposed to feeding any kind of diet, but I am knowledgable on the subject and do know that no diet will work the same for every pet, this includes prescription diets.
Re: Cat Vomiting Bile & Other Stuff, WBC in Urine
I'm not going to argue raw diets with you. My poinit was, and is, that the vomiting could be a result of nearly anything, and since you do feed a raw diet, it needs to be amoung the investigative factors to consider. You must also be aware that just as with any other diet, cats can suddenly develop sensitivities or allergies to any component or ingredient in the diet. As I said, a fecal exam could be helpful to rule out bacterials.
The urine had high counts of WBC, this may in fact, indicate an infection, your vet needs to investigate this further, either with a new urinalysis, including careful examination of sediment, or a urine culture/sensitivity test, or both. Keep in mind, an infection doesn't necessarily have to be in the urinary tract, but could be elsewhere, such as the GI tract. Combined with the vomiting, it would seem to make sense to your vet to rule out an infection, and find the source of it.
His hydration needs to be addressed, since the frequent vomiting requires replenishment of electrolytes and fluids lost. Sub-q fluids may be needed, but your vet has to determine the degree of hydration. The added water in his food probably isn't going to be enough. Does he have diarrhea? If so, it's not enough to fortifiy with water in food or expect him to drink enough on his own, the electrolytes need to be replenished with sub-q fluids. If the dehydration continues, he may then be at risk for renal insufficiency.
My concern is the frequent and seemingly unrelenting vomiting episodes. Whether this is dietary related, ingestion of something, or an inflammatory condition going on, it doesn't seem like your vet is addressing it in a timely manner. If he continues to vomit his food, you know there's a problem. You haven't said just how long this has been going on, but if it's been past 5 days, there's a problem.
Whether you understand Hepatic Lipidosis or not, many owners don't recognize the symptoms until it's too late to treat agressively. Vomiting, anorexia, dehydration and weight loss are the most common signs. Depression, withdrawal and jaundice are closely followed, if not sooner. This disease is rapid and liver degeneration occurs rapidly without obvious symptoms at the onset. Stress is the number one cause to these symptoms. I'm not saying your kitty has hepatic lipidosis, I'm saying it should be something to rule out, and if your vet has already done that and is confident it's ruled out, then it's time to rule out the underlying cause to the excessive vomiting.
The urine had high counts of WBC, this may in fact, indicate an infection, your vet needs to investigate this further, either with a new urinalysis, including careful examination of sediment, or a urine culture/sensitivity test, or both. Keep in mind, an infection doesn't necessarily have to be in the urinary tract, but could be elsewhere, such as the GI tract. Combined with the vomiting, it would seem to make sense to your vet to rule out an infection, and find the source of it.
His hydration needs to be addressed, since the frequent vomiting requires replenishment of electrolytes and fluids lost. Sub-q fluids may be needed, but your vet has to determine the degree of hydration. The added water in his food probably isn't going to be enough. Does he have diarrhea? If so, it's not enough to fortifiy with water in food or expect him to drink enough on his own, the electrolytes need to be replenished with sub-q fluids. If the dehydration continues, he may then be at risk for renal insufficiency.
My concern is the frequent and seemingly unrelenting vomiting episodes. Whether this is dietary related, ingestion of something, or an inflammatory condition going on, it doesn't seem like your vet is addressing it in a timely manner. If he continues to vomit his food, you know there's a problem. You haven't said just how long this has been going on, but if it's been past 5 days, there's a problem.
Whether you understand Hepatic Lipidosis or not, many owners don't recognize the symptoms until it's too late to treat agressively. Vomiting, anorexia, dehydration and weight loss are the most common signs. Depression, withdrawal and jaundice are closely followed, if not sooner. This disease is rapid and liver degeneration occurs rapidly without obvious symptoms at the onset. Stress is the number one cause to these symptoms. I'm not saying your kitty has hepatic lipidosis, I'm saying it should be something to rule out, and if your vet has already done that and is confident it's ruled out, then it's time to rule out the underlying cause to the excessive vomiting.
..........Traci
Re: Cat Vomiting Bile & Other Stuff, WBC in Urine
Traci:
I'm not trying to argue I'm just saying at this time, we feel it's probably a cause of something else rather then his staple diet.
We are doing a fecal exam but I need to turn it in. They closed early today and are not open tomorrow, so I will have to offer a fresh one to them on Monday as they weren't able to obtain one on the day of his visit.
What I don't understand is why seeing an elivated amount of WBC in a neutered male cat is so abnormal (as the vet put it.) something that would more likely be seen in a female cat. Unfortunatly I am hearing most of this 3rd hand, the vet tech called and spoke with my s/o then my s/o told me, who knows what is getting lost in the translation.
I don't know how eliviated it was, but apparently enough to make her mention it.
I know it's not inclusive of a UTI only, I merely said that because you had mentioned it earlier.
She mentioned that he was only a little dehydrated, and to keep an eye on it, and that as long as his vomiting didn't greatly increase that adding a little water to his food each meal would be adiquit until we next met.
We also do not have working AC here (and it's been real hot lately) though it's currently being fixed as I type, this might have to do with part of it.
Tage does not have diarrhea at this time, his stools are normal.
He has not vomited any more green bile since the appointment on Thursday, but he did vomit his breakfast this morning.
2 days ago while I was at work, him and/or one of my other cats apparently killed a mole that got into my house. Now, I do not use any pesticides and such, but who knows who else might, or what this mole might of had to begin with.
He has vomited this green bile approximatly 8-12 times since the beginning of May. (We left on vacation to Japan in late april, on our return home on the second week of may, we started to notice the vomit.)
The vet had mentioned a couple things in specific she thinks might be possible, one included was Hepatic Lipidosis. While he has the vomiting, withdrawl only at night time for a few days and slight dehydration. None of the other symptoms seem to be present at this time.
I'm not trying to argue I'm just saying at this time, we feel it's probably a cause of something else rather then his staple diet.
We are doing a fecal exam but I need to turn it in. They closed early today and are not open tomorrow, so I will have to offer a fresh one to them on Monday as they weren't able to obtain one on the day of his visit.
What I don't understand is why seeing an elivated amount of WBC in a neutered male cat is so abnormal (as the vet put it.) something that would more likely be seen in a female cat. Unfortunatly I am hearing most of this 3rd hand, the vet tech called and spoke with my s/o then my s/o told me, who knows what is getting lost in the translation.
I don't know how eliviated it was, but apparently enough to make her mention it.
I know it's not inclusive of a UTI only, I merely said that because you had mentioned it earlier.
She mentioned that he was only a little dehydrated, and to keep an eye on it, and that as long as his vomiting didn't greatly increase that adding a little water to his food each meal would be adiquit until we next met.
We also do not have working AC here (and it's been real hot lately) though it's currently being fixed as I type, this might have to do with part of it.
Tage does not have diarrhea at this time, his stools are normal.
He has not vomited any more green bile since the appointment on Thursday, but he did vomit his breakfast this morning.
2 days ago while I was at work, him and/or one of my other cats apparently killed a mole that got into my house. Now, I do not use any pesticides and such, but who knows who else might, or what this mole might of had to begin with.
He has vomited this green bile approximatly 8-12 times since the beginning of May. (We left on vacation to Japan in late april, on our return home on the second week of may, we started to notice the vomit.)
The vet had mentioned a couple things in specific she thinks might be possible, one included was Hepatic Lipidosis. While he has the vomiting, withdrawl only at night time for a few days and slight dehydration. None of the other symptoms seem to be present at this time.
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mamaof4soon
- Posts: 283
- Joined: Tue Jun 06, 2006 9:18 pm
Re: Cat Vomiting Bile & Other Stuff, WBC in Urine
Angelzoo my dogs are also BARFERS, they have been on the BARF diet since weening. We only give chicken and sometimes give turkey but my older boy doesnt like the turkey. He has a very sensitive stomach and doesnt even like the fat on the chicken so i take it off before i feed him. My younger one loves what ever you give him. I give them as a treat steak trimmings. But main diet is chicken with GOOP. (Goop is veggies and their vitimins) What type of food do you use? Is is with bones or without? (my dogs get bones just not weight baring bones like a leg) Mainly just necks and backs. Do you give goop or any veggie like substance with the food. What percent are you giving of food to veggie mix. I agree with you that you should not change the diet, that would do more harm than good. Unless the dr. says that the cat is difficient in the vit's and minerals then stick with what you know. Is the food you are getting of good quality? Do you know the place you get it from?(we get ours from an Amish market so we know what we are getting) Are you fasting one meal a week?
My older dog throws up bile once in a while, we usually fast him and call vet but by the next day he is fine. He is healthy and there are no signs of any problems with him except what we already know. Like he has an undisended testile and had umbilical hernia that healed on its own. We know what the problems are and know he has a sensitive tummy. His litter mate had other problems also, but he lives with someone else.
I would deffinately think of the SubQ fluids if he is still dehydrated. Also does he have water available to him at all times? Do you watch him drink? I am glad that your Dr. supports the rawmeat diet you have chosen. But make sure you find the cause of the problem and get his health in order. If you dont feel this dr. is helping as best he can then get a second opinion. Keep us updated. Good luck!
My older dog throws up bile once in a while, we usually fast him and call vet but by the next day he is fine. He is healthy and there are no signs of any problems with him except what we already know. Like he has an undisended testile and had umbilical hernia that healed on its own. We know what the problems are and know he has a sensitive tummy. His litter mate had other problems also, but he lives with someone else.
I would deffinately think of the SubQ fluids if he is still dehydrated. Also does he have water available to him at all times? Do you watch him drink? I am glad that your Dr. supports the rawmeat diet you have chosen. But make sure you find the cause of the problem and get his health in order. If you dont feel this dr. is helping as best he can then get a second opinion. Keep us updated. Good luck!
Re: Cat Vomiting Bile & Other Stuff, WBC in Urine
Re: hepatic lipidosis....remember, not all symptoms present, and not all at the same time, they are almost always hidden symptoms and the only way to effectively diagnose is through bloodwork, mainly paying attention to liver enzymes. If any of the liver enzymes were out of normal range, no matter how slight, and combined with the vomiting, dehydration, and probable stress from your vacation and the move, would be reason to keep this in mind and keep it monitored. Also keep in mind that even though one blood panel was done, any enzyme can elevate at any given time as the disease process progresses.
Why would you think a female would be more prone to elevated WBC as opposed to males? It is not selective, infection occurs in both genders, as a result of various conditions. Diet and the pH level could be part of it. But it could be elsewhere, which your vet has to address.
Not sure, but the mole could have been infected, or had an infection passed onto the cat(s). Any number of bacterials can be transmitted this way (as well as parasitic infections).
The concern is the vomiting and dehydration combined, and that it has not resolved. Your vet could attempt to prescribe a temporary course of antibiotics, but without additional diagnostics or process of elimination, they may not be appropriate (i.e, unidentified infection, wrong antibiotic chosen, or, inflammatory condtion going on).
Why would you think a female would be more prone to elevated WBC as opposed to males? It is not selective, infection occurs in both genders, as a result of various conditions. Diet and the pH level could be part of it. But it could be elsewhere, which your vet has to address.
Not sure, but the mole could have been infected, or had an infection passed onto the cat(s). Any number of bacterials can be transmitted this way (as well as parasitic infections).
The concern is the vomiting and dehydration combined, and that it has not resolved. Your vet could attempt to prescribe a temporary course of antibiotics, but without additional diagnostics or process of elimination, they may not be appropriate (i.e, unidentified infection, wrong antibiotic chosen, or, inflammatory condtion going on).
..........Traci
Re: Cat Vomiting Bile & Other Stuff, WBC in Urine
The discussion on raw diets (and especially BARF) is primarily prohibited on this forum, since we do not advocate it nor do we advocate others pushing "anecdotal" information. If people bothered to read the House Rules (which is required of all users), you'd understand our position. If you wish to discuss raw diets, there are other places in which to do it, this forum is not one of them.
The VET is the only one who can determine if the diet needs to be changed or adjusted or if it is inappropriate for the health problem.
The VET is the only one who can determine if the diet needs to be changed or adjusted or if it is inappropriate for the health problem.
..........Traci
Re: Cat Vomiting Bile & Other Stuff, WBC in Urine
Mamaof4soon:
I thought I had mentioned it before... my gang gets this food currently, and for the past about 1 1/2 weeks.
http://www.naturesvariety.com/content.l ... vUj1FC527D
Previous to this they were eating this formula for about 8+ months, I also fed it to a foster dog which it did wonders to stop his vomiting, calm his skin down (he had a high protein problem) and keep weight on him!
http://www.naturesvariety.com/content.l ... vUj1FC527D
My cats do have very sensitive stomachs, but they are generally not picky eaters.
I haven't seen Tage drink, I rarely see any of my cats drink since we have moved and it declined even more when I switched to a canned diet and then to a raw diet (but it also contains a much higher amount of moisture then kibble.)
I'm going to move their water fountain back onto the floor to see if they will want it then. Right now it's up on a counter top.
I have been to several vets in the area and so far this is the only one that I have liked.
Traci:
I'm relaying what the Vet Tech said to my s/o over the phone. I honestly had no idea of what she was trying to say by the wbc in male cats being abnormal, but not for a female cat. It didn't make sense to me either.
We also discussed IBD, which we will talk about further on Monday.
Pretty much everything is still up in the air. But beside the vomiting of his food this morning Tage is his usual self, he's sleeping on my lap right now.
I just wish there was more I could do for him at this moment.
I will probably give him a 3rd meal, add one into the middle of the day, hopefully to keep his tummy from getting too empty and aggitated.
I thought I had mentioned it before... my gang gets this food currently, and for the past about 1 1/2 weeks.
http://www.naturesvariety.com/content.l ... vUj1FC527D
Previous to this they were eating this formula for about 8+ months, I also fed it to a foster dog which it did wonders to stop his vomiting, calm his skin down (he had a high protein problem) and keep weight on him!
http://www.naturesvariety.com/content.l ... vUj1FC527D
My cats do have very sensitive stomachs, but they are generally not picky eaters.
I haven't seen Tage drink, I rarely see any of my cats drink since we have moved and it declined even more when I switched to a canned diet and then to a raw diet (but it also contains a much higher amount of moisture then kibble.)
I'm going to move their water fountain back onto the floor to see if they will want it then. Right now it's up on a counter top.
I have been to several vets in the area and so far this is the only one that I have liked.
Traci:
I'm relaying what the Vet Tech said to my s/o over the phone. I honestly had no idea of what she was trying to say by the wbc in male cats being abnormal, but not for a female cat. It didn't make sense to me either.
We also discussed IBD, which we will talk about further on Monday.
Pretty much everything is still up in the air. But beside the vomiting of his food this morning Tage is his usual self, he's sleeping on my lap right now.
I just wish there was more I could do for him at this moment.
I will probably give him a 3rd meal, add one into the middle of the day, hopefully to keep his tummy from getting too empty and aggitated.
Re: Cat Vomiting Bile & Other Stuff, WBC in Urine
I did also want to add that today I've noticed a large increase of dander on Tage. Usually this is not an issue on any of my cats, but it's blossomed on Tage today. It's even starting to really bother my s/o's allergies.
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