My cat is crazy -- Not in a good way.

[OhSoKorny]

I'm at the end of the line with one of my cats, Ivan.

He is about three years old and either he is crazy or just slowly going feral. I got him as a kitten at about 8 weeks old from the animal shelter, and while he has never been loving at the least he was a good animal.

In the last year, though, he's been going downhill. It started with obsessivly scratching at things. He will sit there and just scratch and scratch at a peice of paper left on the floor for hours.

He started to startle unexpectally and freak out randomly when you picked him up. One such time left a six inch long scar on my arm. He'll be fine one second and the next something will scare him (what this something is, I'll never know) and he'll be fighting and biting to get away.

He was always really rambuncious, so my boyfriend and I got a second cat, Vlad for him to play with. Vlad turned out to be everything that Ivan wasn't, playful, gentle and just a really sociable guy.

Ivan started to get worse and eventually he would stop eating. My boyfriend and I didn't figure it out for a bit because we volentary feed, but we realized that as much food as we put in the bowl Vlad kept getting fatter and Ivan skinner.

A trip to the vet diagnosed worms for both of them, but dewarming didn't help Ivan. (And to be honest, now Vlad is obease) Thinking that maybe Vlad was somehow chasing Ivan from the food we would lock Ivan in the bathroom with food to himself. He'd cry and meow at the door, not paying any attention to the food.

Finally my boyfriend got fed up, and grabbed Ivan and shoved his nose in some wet food that we got him. Ivan licked his nose and we had sucess! He started eating again. But now it's created a whole new ruitual my boyfriend and I have to go though. We have to feed Ivan wet catfood, and the damn cat will not eat until his nose is shoved in it. Ivan has increasingly become anti-social and will spit and hiss every time we try to pick him up. So it's a big deal trying to get him to eat. First we have to chase him around the house, then we have to avoid the claws, then we have to carry him to the dish (still trying to avoid those claws) and get him to look at the food bowl.

I haven't tried to pick Ivan up for weeks now other than feedings do to his hissing and spitting. He compleatly freaks out when anything at all is changed in the house and actually snarled and hissed at me when I came home wearing new shoes.

He has a bad habit of attacking the two of us out of nowhere. We used to have the couch away from the wall and he would come up behind us, claw at the back of our necks and run off. When that mysteriuous _something_ startles him, he runs across the house at top speed, tail poofed and not caring who he runs over. My foot has been horribly slashed three times beacuse he has had his claws out when he ran, my boyfriend has been slashed twice.

We have to lock him in another room when guests come over because NO ONE but myself and my boyfriend can really tell the difference between Vald and Ivan. Someone will reach down to pet "Vlad" and recive a bite or a slash from Ivan.

Yeah, did I mention that he bites? Hard. Sometimes when he's not running from the things only he can see, he'll come up to you and just bite you. Or if you reach down and pet him, he'll swing around and bite you.

He goes thorugh days where he dissappers under the couch and we never see him (and we have to drag him out to get him to eat) and somedays he'll be roaming around the house looking for that special peice of paper he can scratch for hours. He ignores all the toys we give him (and the scratching posts, he perfers the walls instead), he likes the tops of water bottles, though for some reason.

I am personally at my wits end with this cat. I could take the twice a day feeding disaster, but the main thing is I just do not trust this cat any longer. He is mean, and he scratches and bites for no reason. It's like we have a crazy creature inside our house that brings us no joy, but just a lot of physical pain and honest fear. I've been trying to figure out what to do with him... My boyfriend threw him outside the last time he got scratched badly (another mistaken idenity, Ivan for Vlad problem), but he sat outside and cried until he let him in.

I don't want to bring him to a shelter because he's still so skinny it'll look like I've been starving the cat! (If only they could see Vlad). Plus there is no way he would pass a behavior test, and he would be put down.

What do I do? Take him to the vet and leave him there? Heh. Oh yeah, I forgot getting him in that cat carrier was pure hell. I have to wear leather gloves just to get him into the carrier to spare my hands. He is compleatly out of control. What if we decide to have kids in the future? This cat cannot be trusted whatsoever.

[Traci]

Not to sound harsh, but read your post to yourself, and then ask why your kitty is as he is. You've done many things that are wrong, now you must start doing the rightthings for your kitty.

How old is he and when was he last checked thoroughly by your vet? I strongly advise you get him seen by a competent vet immediately and opt for a full blood profile to rule out underlying health issues (including the failure to gain weight, the nutritional deficiencies) Once your vet determines his overall health status, then you can start addressing the behavioral issues.

You and your BF both need to start exercising some patience and forgiveness. Your cat is not a child, he is a cat and demands to be respected, handled with care and love, and not treated like an object of your disdain. It's clear in your post that your emotions have gotten the better of you, but your kitty deserves better. First get him thoroughly examined by your vet, including bloodwork, then ask your vet about the behavior/consider seeking a pet behaviorist for a consult.

Many of the problems in your post actually start with how you and your BF handle things, especially how you percieve kitty's behavior, so you definately need to start by learning to be patient, forgiving, and understanding of why your kitty acts as he does. Read up on feline behavior, talk with your vet, and start one step at a time to minimize stress in the environment (including your own). It sounds like your kitty is seeking attention, so you have to find ways that will fill his expectations of you (time well spent with him, interaction on your part with playtime and activity, establishing an acceptable routine with the feedings, etc, and slowly integrating a "training" method so he learns that biting behavior is not acceptable). Training does not mean toss him outside when you're "fed-up"...it means taking slow steps with patience and forgiveness and respecting your kitty's environmental needs and creating a safe and secure, stimulating environment for him. Spray bottles with water, for example are a good training tool to curb scratching or biting behavior, as well as short time-outs. The spray bottle technique should only be used at the precise time of the unacceptable behavior. Time-outs should only consist of 5 or 10 minutes in a seperate room at the immediate time of the unwanted behavior (biting or scratching). But, never use either technique simply for the reason you feel stressed or "fed-up".

I suspect your kitty is half fearful of both you and your boyfriend. Having to literally pick him up each time he is to be fed is counterproductive. Chasing him around the house is also counterproductive and will of course scare him and potentially increase agressiveness. Putting him outside is not only dangerous, but as counterproductive as you can get (there is no purpose whatsoever for putting a cat outside just because you feel there is a behavioral problem, it solves nothing).

You need to look back at the environment and all the changes that have taken place. Cats are not adaptive to changes, nor do they handle stress as humans do. The environment needs to remain calm, stable, with no abrupt changes or consistent changes to the cat's environment/routine. To do so causes undue stress for the cat, and behavioral changes will occur, ...this is a cat's way of alerting you to a problem he/she cannot adapt to, is upset with, or is causing undue stress. It's up to you to ensure a harmonious, peaceful, calm environment for both cats, and to establish an acceptable routine.

You adopted your kitty for life. He is depending on you to create that harmonious environment, but you have to exercise patience, comittment, forgiveness in order to achieve it. Your kitty isn't doing anything to spite you, he is trying to alert you to problems, and it's up to you to recognize them and work toward acceptable solutions.

[OhSoKorny]

I suspect your kitty is half fearful of both you and your boyfriend. Having to literally pick him up each time he is to be fed is counterproductive. Chasing him around the house is also counterproductive and will of course scare him and potentially increase agressiveness. Putting him outside is not only dangerous, but as counterproductive as you can get (there is no purpose whatsoever for putting a cat outside just because you feel there is a behavioral problem, it solves nothing).

I should have ellaberated on this. The cat scratched by my boyfriend bad enough to have stiches. I'm glad he put him outside. This cat is dangerious.

And the reason we have to chase him around and make it a stressful situation is that Ivan WILL NOT eat. He can and will starve himself. We have tried everything else. We have tried putting him in a room with food, we have tried always having food out. I'm not going to let my cat starve, and he was nothing but skin and bones until we came up with this newest concept. He has last been to the vet six months ago and dignosed with worms. He had some blood tests, but nothing wrong with his thyroid, ect.

Reading your post presents a lot of helpful ideas... if I could pick him up. How am I supposed to put him in another room for 'time out' if he scratches and bites upon contact? I don't use a spray bottle on him, because I've heard it's cruel.

What would you do if you come into the house worried for your own skin?

[Traci]

I'm going to address this point-by-point. It's lengthy, but hopefully you'll commit to reading it and take steps to apply the methods described....for your kitty's health and well-being, and for your benefit as well.

1) I got him as a kitten at about 8 weeks old from the animal shelter

It is common for kittens who have been weaned too soon, to sometimes lack in social skills and social development. These skills are generally learned from their natural mother and siblings. It also depends on how the kitten is introduced to, and socialized to humans at an early age. Kittens should be introduced to human contact at around 9 weeks of age, in a calm environment, when the human has time to devote to bonding to the kitten, and establishing his/her environment, safety, security, well-being, stimulation, etc.

Having said that however, it is never too late to form a strong bond with such a kitten or even as he/she develops into adulthood. It takes time and patience and an understanding of the cat's basic needs, temperament, personality and individual behavior.

2) In the last year, though, he's been going downhill. It started with obsessivly scratching at things. He will sit there and just scratch and scratch at a peice of paper left on the floor for hours.

The "excessively scratching at things", and particularly the paper, may very well have been a sign of boredom, or frustration and stress, that he was not stimulated enough, or encouraged to be active with toys, and your active involvement with him during playtime, activity and exercise, and of course, your handling of the situations. You have to actively engage yourself with a kitten or cat and form a bond of trust, in order for the cat to feel secure and comfortable with you and his/her environment. Stimulation with playtime and activity, cuddling, bonding, attention, etc are crucial for proper development and socialization skills.

3) He started to startle unexpectally and freak out randomly when you picked him up. One such time left a six inch long scar on my arm. He'll be fine one second and the next something will scare him (what this something is, I'll never know) and he'll be fighting and biting to get away.

My question would be, why do you feel you MUST pick him up, and above all, keep him in your arms when he is already struggling to free himself? Whenever a cat refuses to be picked up, or struggles to free him/herself from an owner's arms, it is appropriate to release the cat and try again later. With small repeated steps at quiet times, the cat will learn and trust that you are not a threat to him/her.

Many cats prefer not to be picked up at all. It could be a fear of being restrained, fear of heights, or uncomfort due to the way they are being held. For example, I once had a female would would only allow to be held on her back, belly up, like a baby, any other way and she would struggle. It was because she was truly uncomfortable being held any other way. Another cat likes to be held with forearms over my shoulder, but if held any other way, he struggles. My point is, cats prefer different ways to be picked up or held, and some don't like to be picked up at all. If your kitty doesn't like it, then don't force it upon him, you will only make matters worse. Other ways you can bond with your kitty are when he sits on your lap, or if you can share the same space together (i.e., on the couch, on your bed, on the floor, etc)..and to your cat, that is an acceptable form of affection and comfort.

4) Ivan started to get worse and eventually he would stop eating. My boyfriend and I didn't figure it out for a bit because we volentary feed, but we realized that as much food as we put in the bowl Vlad kept getting fatter and Ivan skinner.

Something happened within this time frame. What was it? A chain of events? A particular event? Did you take slow steps in the introductory period when you brought Vlad into the home? Or, did you put the cats together immediately and expect them to adjust to each other within days? Did anything unusual or stressful occur during this introductory stage? Did you spend a great deal of time ensuring a safe and comfortable environment for both cats at the time, and spend quality time with both so both had your equal and undivided attention? You said you locked Ivan in the bathroom during feeding times because you suspected Vlad may have been intimidating Ivan with feeding times...but, did you have evidence of this? Did you ever see Vlad intimidate Ivan? If you didn't, and by locking Ivan in the bathroom, you created confusion for Ivan, in that, he did not know or understand why he was being locked in a room with only his food, yet Vlad was allowed free roam. While you may have thought this was a good approach, it actually was not in Ivan's best interests.

5) A trip to the vet diagnosed worms for both of them, but dewarming didn't help Ivan.

How was worms diagnosed? Did your vet do a fecal exam and see physical evidence of worms or larvae? If not, and he simply prescribed a dewormer, yet Ivan continued to be anorexic and continued to lose weight, then this should have been a red flag that something else was going on. Worms do not cause a cat to be anorexic, on the contrary, they generally will cause a cat to be voracious, and always hungry. A cat with worms will eat much much more than normal, and it is because the worms in fact eat what the cat eats. In severe cases of worm burden, that is, if there is a serious burden of worms in the GI tract, enough to cause vomiting, diarrhea and overall illness, then the worm burden can be debilitating and may result in anorexia, but it isn't necessarily the worms directly, it is the GI tract upsets, nutritional deficiencies, combined with vomiting and diarrhea. I suspect Ivan didn't have a high burden of worms, but something else altogether. Your vet should have addressed that, or, you should have followed up with the vet at monthly intervals and to get Ivan weighed reguarly to record the significant amount of weight loss and failure to gain weight. This should be addressed again, NOW.

6) Finally my boyfriend got fed up, and grabbed Ivan and shoved his nose in some wet food that we got him.

Shoving a cat's face or nose into something is NOT the solution, and should never be done ever. This only institutes fear into the cat, and a host of behavioral problems result from it. A calmer approach should have been taken, such as simply offering canned food in a new dish, putting the food on your finger to tempt him, etc. Above all, the anorexia should have been immediately addressed by your vet.

7) We have to feed Ivan wet catfood, and the damn cat will not eat until his nose is shoved in it.

What are you feeding him? Many cats have preferences, such as dry over canned, or vice versa. Also, he may not like the food/brand/type, in which you need to get a high quality adult maintenance diet for him, one that he likes. For example, if you're feeding a low-quality or generic brand, of course he won't like it, it's deficient in nutrients. Equally as important is getting him examined by your vet to rule out potential oral health problems (i.e., painful gingivitis, loose or diseased teeth, etc) which may in part be causing some of the food aversion.

If you mean to say that you and your BF are indeed "shoving his nose into" his food every single time he eats, you surely must recognize the problem here. Ivan has developed a fear of his food, BECAUSE of the approach you've taken. He has associated his food with BAD experiences, because of your approach. Now, you have to work in correcting your approach. This won't be easy because he has learned this is the only way he "can" eat, yet he is fearful all the while.

How to change this? You have to change, and you have to change the approach.

Provide a new eating area for Ivan only. The area should be close to his current food dish area, but made "special" and just for him. He needs to associate his food with a calm, peaceful place so that he can actuall enjoy his meal. Food is the number one love of all cats, so you MUST ensure that his mealtimes are pleasant for him, uninterputed, period. Put the canned food on a small plate and call to him to the area. Sit on the floor nearby him, but do NOT touch him, do NOT force him to eat, and certainly do NOT shove his nose or face into his food. Sitting nearby, be still and calm and talk in a soothing voice to him, say his name in a loving tone and calm voice. You will need to attempt this "routine" several times so that he can begin to trust again, and to feel his food will be at "his" leisure, and not yours. If he does not eat the food at once, then put it away, and try again a half hour later, and so on. (but ALWAYS leave out a bowl of dry food, that he prefers, available to him) Once he learns this trust and feels secure at feeding times, then there will no longer be a problem. During this time, try to keep Vlad away from the area so that he is not a distraction for Ivan. If you suspect in any way that Vlad may indeed be intimidating Ivan at feeding times, then place a second feeding "station" in another part of the room or another room altogether, and encourage only one of the cats to use this area for a feeding station.

8 ) Ivan has increasingly become anti-social and will spit and hiss every time we try to pick him up. So it's a big deal trying to get him to eat. First we have to chase him around the house, then we have to avoid the claws, then we have to carry him to the dish (still trying to avoid those claws) and get him to look at the food bowl.

The first part of your sentence here has been explained. Now you know why he is anti-social. He has developed a fear, associated his feeding times with bad experiences due to your approach. The second part of your sentence....you need to stop chasing him, period. Using the method I explained above would be appropriate, and should work, but you MUST be patient and comitted and give it time.

9) He compleatly freaks out when anything at all is changed in the house and actually snarled and hissed at me when I came home wearing new shoes.

As I explained earlier, cats do not adapt to changes in the environment. Cats view a home as their environment, and they need that environment to remain stable, uninterupted, and secure at all times. About your shoes. Since cats are usually at floor level, the most they see of their humans is your feet and legs, so when there are new changes, new smells, etc, this is why they react. Also, if your shoes were a new color, for example, he could have been slightly afraid of them, it would have been a normal reaction on his part. On another note, even rearranging furniture in a home can be extremely stressful for cats. Cats prefer and need their environment to be structured, and for the "belongings" to remain unchanged if possible, because they are territorial in nature and rely on this for familiarity and security.

10) He has a bad habit of attacking the two of us out of nowhere. We used to have the couch away from the wall and he would come up behind us, claw at the back of our necks and run off. When that mysteriuous _something_ startles him, he runs across the house at top speed, tail poofed and not caring who he runs over. My foot has been horribly slashed three times beacuse he has had his claws out when he ran, my boyfriend has been slashed twice.

I truly doubt he is doing this intentionally to harm you. He is active, probably has alot of pent-up energy and is somewhat expressing that, by being energetic. You could also be mistaking this "attack" behavior for play behavior. Many cats go into "attack" mode by instinctual behavior, but it is not truly attacking, it is play-aggression, or play only. Due to the other problems in the environment, it is most likely that he is expressing himself, by having spurts of energy, and it is most likely activity and exercise and play, rather than attacking. Cats can't and don't retract their claws during playtime or bursts of energy, and if you happen to be in the way, then yes, you'll occasionally get scratched. I get scratched all the time, but once I see one of my cats in "play-attack" mode, I simply move out of the way, not hard to do. Or, I get involved in their playtime. It sounds like Ivan is actually trying to get your attention, and "inviting" you to play. So, play with him. Get on the floor with some toys, or drag a string across the room for him to chase. There is nothing better than active involvement in your cats' playtime, this is how you earn trust, and this is how your cats feel safe and secure with you, and eventually learn to bond with you. They also look forward to your involvement in their playtime activities, it strengthens the bond.

11) We have to lock him in another room when guests come over because NO ONE but myself and my boyfriend can really tell the difference between Vald and Ivan. Someone will reach down to pet "Vlad" and recive a bite or a slash from Ivan.

Instead of locking Ivan in another room, why don't you instruct your guests that the cats are both off-limits, and not to be petted? What would be wrong about that? The cats are respected, and the guests have to follow the rules. Again, every time you confine Ivan, he is confused and does not understand why he is being confined. This is counterproductive and only adding to the situation. Stop confining him, and allow him to feel safe and secure in his environment. I'm sure the guests will survive if they can't pet a cat. Once you start working on reducing the stresses in the environment, and using appropriate methods with Ivan, eventually, he will become a more mellow cat, and then you can consider allowing guests to pet him. But, if Ivan doesn't want the attention from them, then who has the right to force that upon him? Many cats are fearful or apprehensive with guests anyway, for good reasons on their part. The guests should be told to respect that.

12) Sometimes when he's not running from the things only he can see, he'll come up to you and just bite you. Or if you reach down and pet him, he'll swing around and bite you.

Again, probably an invitation to get you actively involved with him. Since the behavior has already been "learned", it will be a bit difficult to change, but it CAN be done.

First, do not force him to be petted. He will come to you at his convenience. Once he does, be calm, and sit still. Let him investigate you. If he doesn't appear to want to bite, then slowly hold your hand, palm up, toward him, at a short distance between you and him. If he bites, say a stern "NO", and immediately divert his attention to a soft toy to chew on. Then get involved with the toy and him, and so on. With persistence and patience, he will learn that the toy, and not your hands, are to "prey" on. He will learn that the playtime activity itself is more rewarding than biting your hands, and with your patience and comittment, he will start associating the playtime with a good experience. Again, this will lead to trust and bonding.

13) He goes thorugh days where he dissappers under the couch and we never see him (and we have to drag him out to get him to eat) and somedays he'll be roaming around the house looking for that special peice of paper he can scratch for hours. He ignores all the toys we give him (and the scratching posts, he perfers the walls instead), he likes the tops of water bottles, though for some reason.

Disappearing under the couch may be indicative of withdrawal, or depression, or even illness. Add a bit of fear into the equation and you'll understand why. Each morning when you get up, call his name, several times, and speak softly. Do this again before you leave for work. Again when you come home, and again before you retire at night. Cats associate their names with affection, caring, socialization, so say his name every chance you get. As for the toys, not all cats like furry little mice or bouncy balls, so get creative. Visit a local pet store and get a few different types of toys...a small stuffed animal, a rubber chew toy, a cat-track, a toy with catnip inside. He could have a certain preference for certain textures, so choose them wisely at the petstore. Immediately engage in playtime with him with the new toys and do this every day. Don't just toss the toys on the floor and expect him to play with them. He needs you to show him "how they work" so to speak, and for your active involvement. Cats love to "hunt, chase, and stalk their 'prey'" so be creative in these playtime sessions. Some of my cats' favorite toys are stuffed animals with catnip pouches inside (at Petsmart, reasonably priced). I toss them, they pounce or fetch, you get the idea. Try a "kitty spa", a round "playstation" that includes scratching pad, toys, and stimulating paw pads for kitty's paws (also found at Petsmart). Again, try placing catnip on top of and around his scratching post, then toss a toy near it and he should start using the post. My point is, there are many different ways to play with your cat and get involved in the playtime activity. This is important for stimulating and maintaining the cat's interests, and promotes better health and happiness.

14) He is mean, and he scratches and bites for no reason.

See all of the above. He's not doing this to spite you or to be mean. He's practically begging for attention, or, to get your attention to some other matter that is displeasing to him (also as described above). I strongly suspect this is his way of inviting you to become more involved with his activity, playtime, bonding, and working on the stresses, such as the feeding routine, etc.

15) I don't want to bring him to a shelter because he's still so skinny it'll look like I've been starving the cat!

I'll express true concern here again, you need to get your kitty to your vet, or a more experienced vet to determine why he is so underweight. I highly doubt this has anything to do with worms.

And, as stated earlier, do not take him to a shelter....you adopted him for life, he's depending on you to create a harmonious environment, and committ to his needs.

16) Oh yeah, I forgot getting him in that cat carrier was pure hell. I have to wear leather gloves just to get him into the carrier to spare my hands.

Solution: place the carrier in a familiar area, one that he is in daily. Leave the carrier door open at all times (or remove the door entirely). Place a soft blanket inside, with a favorite toy or catnip, or treats. Leave the carrier in this area for a week or two. Allow him to investigate it, and do not interfere. Once he seems less fearful of the carrier by associating it's presence is not going to harm him, then you can encourage him inside on the day of his vet appointment. If you must, simply put on heavy mittens or gloves to get him inside, but do NOT harm him in doing so, and do NOT cause excessive stress when getting him inside the carrier. If you do, you will then create a bad experience for him and will endure this every time you have to have him seen by the vet. A calm approach works well.

17) And the reason we have to chase him around and make it a stressful situation is that Ivan WILL NOT eat. He can and will starve himself. We have tried everything else. We have tried putting him in a room with food, we have tried always having food out. I'm not going to let my cat starve, and he was nothing but skin and bones until we came up with this newest concept.

It is not that he WILL NOT eat, it is because he associates food with bad experiences. And/or combined with the wrong brand/type or oral health problems. As explained above, you can resolve this by using the methods I described above. Cats do not intentionally starve themselves, they will become anorexic and refuse food for various health/illness reasons, but they do not intentionally avoid food.

18 ) He has last been to the vet six months ago and dignosed with worms. He had some blood tests, but nothing wrong with his thyroid, ect.

My concern is that you indicate he has been underweight for some time, yet have only had him evaluated in 6 months. If he isn't gaining weight, or cannot maintain a proper weight, then there is likely a health issue going on, but could also be combined with the extreme stress in his environment. For this reason, you MUST get him re-evaluated immediately so you can determine to what extent this is affecting his health. Combined with all of the methods I have suggested to you, with a good high quality diet, Ivan should be on a good start, but his overall health must be addressed immediately. Failure to gain weight puts added stresses on major vital organs, and creates nutritional deficiencies, which can then lead to serious health problems.

Not knowing what blood testing was done 6 months ago, or how thorough your vet was, it doesn't sound like your vet addressed much at that time, especially from the time of the "worms" incident/exam 6 months ago, until now...you still indicate that he is underweight. If your vet isn't addressing this, seek a new, more experienced vet immediately. You can't risk underlying health issues that may be developing.

19) How am I supposed to put him in another room for 'time out' if he scratches and bites upon contact? I don't use a spray bottle on him, because I've heard it's cruel.

The first part of your sentence: Using the methods described above. Say a stern "NO" when he bites, then immediately use a squirt bottle, so that he makes the association. The last part of your sentence: the squirt bottle is an effective method for behavioral training in cats. It is not cruel, it does not harm a cat, but you must use it in an appropriate manner, that is, you must use it at the exact time of the incident, and you must not use it "abusively". One squirt at the time of behavior is appropriate for most cats, combined with a stern "NO", followed with either immediate diversion to a toy, or a short time-out. For now, don't attempt the time-outs, start with the "NO" followed with the squirt bottle. In time, when you've mastered the above methods, you would then be able to pick up your kitty and gently place him in another room for a time-out.

20) What would you do if you come into the house worried for your own skin?

I would practice the methods outlined above, and have done so, as have many other cat owners. I'm not trying to sound condescending, but the approaches you took were incorrect and counterproductive, and have resulted in this situation. It is not too late to start the correct approaches, but you have to be comitted, patient, forgiving, your kitty is literally depending on you to do so. You know what they say, "think like a cat", it is very true. Put yourself into your kitty's situation and see it differently, from his point of view, make the effort to do that, and you will see what I mean.

Patience, time, comittment, and a whole lot of love, that's the key. A large part of the key is that you remain calm and understanding of your kitty's instincts, behavior in general, and understanding that we humans must make extraordinary efforts to provide the secure environment our kitties seek. Also as important is reducing your own stress, not showing your stress or frustrations around your cats because they will sense this through your body language, tone of voice, actions you take, and they will react to it.

[KB]

I "ditto" everything Traci said above.

A lot of behavior problems stem from feeding low quality food, please switch Ivan to a high quality food (it will do your other kitty good too), after a few weeks you may be pleasantly surprised. Also stay away from fish.

My toy of choice are teaser toys, look like little fishing poles with toys or feathers attached by a string, I have had great luck with gaining the confidence of ferals with this toys.

I myself have a little hellion (former feral), he will be a year next month, he still has his moments (yes the "I don't want to be held" problem and "lets bite mommy's leg real good when she walks by") but I know it is just play to him. I have watched ferals (all 14 spayed/neutered finally thank god...no more kittens YEAH) interact everyday out my back window and thats what it is "play". I am tempted to do what a queen will do, hold him down with my arm and bite him back, but I haven't...yet

You really do need to get him in for a complete checkup w/all the tests Traci recommends, its in Ivans best interest.

Best of Luck and be patient

[slvrwhispr]

My Izzy has a wild hair like you wouldn't (okay, maybe you would) believe. She's just been out of control hyper since day one, and she seems to seriously target the most expensive stuff I own for destruction.

The one thing I've noticed, other than play time, that calms her down is if I spend time on her level. If I kneel on the floor with my head on the ground and just sit there, and let her come to me, she responds remarkably.

For instance, when I first started, she would just watch me from across the room. I'd just sit or lay there, not moving much, talking softly. Eventually, she came over and started sniffing. Now, if I come down to the ground, she runs up to me and nuzzles my head and gives me little head-butts, purring all over the place. Sometimes, it really helps to think like a cat.

Try maybe observing what Ivan does when he's calm and happy. When he's in that environment, join in, at first as a distant spectator, slowly -- over days or weeks -- include yourself more. But let him come to you. He sounds very scared and stressed out, and proving to him that you're a friend, not a foe, should ease his fear.

You just have to think like a cat does. If you were small, and something big was shoving your face into food, you wouldn't want to eat either. But, it's not impossible to earn his trust. You just have to be on his level.

[preciousdaddy84]

Okay, first of all I would like to say that Traci and KB have [b][u]some[/u][/b valid points. Yes I know that Traci is a veteranary technician and should know what she's talking about, but, (and I mean this with all do respect.) I don't think she has ever owned a cat. I agree that cats who are weened too early can miss out on some things that they learn from their mother's and the rest of the litter. I am very familiar with this, (my house has become a dumping ground for pregnant cat's and I have assisted in alot of kitten delivery's and watched them all grow and learn and play.) The one thing that I think would be most beneficial that was suggested is having some "on their level time". I know this sounds frightening and dangerous in your situation, but I think it would be very beneficial. Although I understand the "need" for the things you do, i.e. the chasing and force feedings, they have done some damage, making Ivan a bit more fearful of you, so lying in the floor, (I find this the best, way, opposed to sitting) will show him that you are not so scary. Now you said that you provide him toys and anyone who has ever had a cat knows that you can't make a cat do something it doesn't want to do, so if he likes bottle caps give him bottle caps, I doubt the constant scratching has anything to do with boredom. For the running through the house "scared" of an invisible force, I would suggest a walk outside, he probably feels pent up. Now Traci has said that pet cats should be kept in doors, and has implied that this means at all times, but as much as we love or cats and wish or think that they are people, (I know I do), they aren't, they are animals, and animals cannot be caged indoors for their entire existence, my cats go in and out as they please, and I also take them on walks through my yard watching them explore and helping them explore, also during these walks would be a great time for "on their level" time. Now kb has suggested a teaser toy and in your case, stay away from this toy at all cost, you may very well lose a limb. My cats love it I admit, but even the most gentle cat is dangerous when this toy comes out. As for the weight loss, I would suggest the vet as well, but like you have said, (and I have actually read and understood everything you have said), you have already taken him to the vet. I had a cat, my beloved Tiny may he rest in peace, who disapeared for a while and when he came back he looked as if he hadn't eaten in months, I took him to the vet and the fecal exam came back neg for worms and the other tests came back neg for FIV, or Leukemia, I personally did not opt for additional tests because the very "competent" vets made clear that the all other possible diagnosis were more than likely life threatening and untreatable, and I personally did not want to know that he was going to die and there was nothing I could do about it, fearing every morning I would find his lifeless body. As far as "throwing him outside" don't beat yourself up about it, you let him back in. Your human and there is only so muchyou can take. I'm sure if Traci had a small person running around her house biting her ankles and slicing her arms with kitchen knives she would eventually slap it lightly or throw it out to get a moments peace, (and I don't mean to sound harsh). I hope my suggestions prove helpful and if you have any more questions please feel free to ask and keep me posted. I have had and currently have all kinds of feline friends with all kinds of different personalities and behaviors.

[dancinbelle2001]

I just wanted to say that I have always received very good advice from Traci on this board. All of her suggestions to me have worked! From reading the posts on this topic I also agree with Traci. Thanks Traci for all of your help in the past and the future I'm sure.

To Ohsokhorny, you probably need to take your cat to a vet to make sure that there are no physical problems that are causing your cat's behavior. My oldest cat, Marcello, will run into a corner and start scratching the carpet whenever he gets overwhelmed. I just call him into a room where it's just the two of us and let him relax. That usually works to calm him down.

[Traci]

Yes I know that Traci is a veteranary technician and should know what she's talking about, but, (and I mean this with all do respect.) I don't think she has ever owned a cat.

Are you referring to the OP, or me specifically? If the latter, I assure you, nothing could be further than the truth.

For the running through the house "scared" of an invisible force, I would suggest a walk outside, he probably feels pent up. Now Traci has said that pet cats should be kept in doors, and has implied that this means at all times, but as much as we love or cats and wish or think that they are people, (I know I do), they aren't, they are animals, and animals cannot be caged indoors for their entire existence, my cats go in and out as they please, and I also take them on walks through my yard watching them explore and helping them explore, also during these walks would be a great time for "on their level" time.

Indoors Only: the outdoor risks are clealy outlined here, as is the "false notion" that indoors cats can't enjoy a stimulating indoor environment. Awareness of the cats' needs and taking steps to create a stimulating indoor environment benefits the cat(s) longevity, health and happiness. You cannot ever gaurantee safety from the outdoor hazards, regardless of how careful you think you are.

Now kb has suggested a teaser toy and in your case, stay away from this toy at all cost, you may very well lose a limb. My cats love it I admit, but even the most gentle cat is dangerous when this toy comes out.

With proper use and supervision, the toy can be stimulating and fun for the cat. Exercising, jumping, stretching, reaching, swatting are natural reactions by the cat during play....exercise and playtime are crucial for mental well-being and stimulation as well as for health and weight management and body strengthening.

As for the weight loss, I would suggest the vet as well, but like you have said, (and I have actually read and understood everything you have said), you have already taken him to the vet.

According to the OP, it was 6 months ago, yet kitty has continued to either lose weight or is unable to maintain a proper weight. As I mentioned, not knowing what bloodwork was done, I recommended additional testing to ensure a primary health problem wasn't surfacing or already present that the owner and vet obviously have not and are not addressing. Prescribing deworming medication with no evidence of worms, and failure to followup and address the weight issue is not good veterinary practice.....also, I suspect the OP hasn't discussed at length with her vet the stress situation in the home, that is probably leading to many of the problems, as I have addressed here.

I had a cat, my beloved Tiny may he rest in peace, who disapeared for a while and when he came back he looked as if he hadn't eaten in months, I took him to the vet and the fecal exam came back neg for worms and the other tests came back neg for FIV, or Leukemia, I personally did not opt for additional tests because the very "competent" vets made clear that the all other possible diagnosis were more than likely life threatening and untreatable, and I personally did not want to know that he was going to die and there was nothing I could do about it, fearing every morning I would find his lifeless body.

Bloodwork is an essential diagnostic tool to check and monitor vital organ function, it is necessary for disease prevention, to detect disease, and to determine what treatment approach is appropriate and effective. Not knowing what your vet suspected, or what he in fact diagnosed, I can only assume a variety of factors, since kitty was gone for some time, probably had nutritional deficiencies that subsequently lead to organ disfunction (i.e., hepatic lipidosis). Yet another reason to keep cats indoors.

The choice you made not to persue additional diagnostics was your choice. But to suggest foregoing bloodwork or other diagnostics simply because of personal fear, is quite counterproductive and dangerous for the cat. To suggest to a stranger who has a cat who is obviously unhealthy, to forego testing, bloodwork and other diagnostics based simply on your personal experience and fear, is dangerous.

As far as "throwing him outside" don't beat yourself up about it, you let him back in. Your human and there is only so muchyou can take.

The cat is not human, and the human took the wrong approach, period. As explained, it was a counterproductive approach...."there is only so much you can take" implies to me that you are completely unwilling to put your stress and emotions aside to address the real issue and the needs of the cat. The issue is taking approaches to address the behavior, in a calm and rational manner, one that is not going to harm the cat, one that the cat can associate with.

The OP made several references to her disdain, so addressing that and offering tips to help both her and the cat are the most productive. Cats are not children and owners cannot expect to treat them as such, they have specific needs and owners must take steps to recognize and understand those needs.

I'm sure if Traci had a small person running around her house biting her ankles and slicing her arms with kitchen knives she would eventually slap it lightly or throw it out to get a moments peace, (and I don't mean to sound harsh).

You couldn't be more incorrect, and do not assume you know me or my methods for dealing with behavioral issues. I have never slapped a cat, and have never "thrown it out to get a moments peace", that's an irrational way of thinking on your part. Likewise, I would also never take such an approach with a human child.

To suggest to another cat owner to do such a thing, as well as to suggest it is acceptable or productive to do such a thing, is not appropriate. If you post such tactics on this forum, it will be subject to edit/delete, per house rules.

I'm not suggesting that my methods are perfect, or that they are applicable to every situation, but I do have every confidence that if the OP takes them to heart and applies them, they will work. It is up to her to make those decisions, and to make them in the best interests of her cat's health and welfare.

[preciousdaddy84]

First I want to apologize to Traci, I did not mean to be so vicious. Being new to the board I guess I should explain myself and my personality. I am very opinionated and sometimes the things I say don't really come out the way I intend them and I tend to argue my point of view like It will save the entire world from the Apocalypse. Now I want to address the statements posted for my reply. As far as me saying that you don't appear to have ever owned a cat, it just seems to me from the statements posted by Traci (alot of which I have read since joining the board), it seems that Traci takes a more medical, mechanical if you will, approach to what a cat needs. I have several cats some I have had for 10+ years and some of Traci's suggestions seem too medical and not thinking about what the cat wants only what it "needs". Also I really honestly don't mean to attack you when I say this but I can't think of anyway else to say it, but you seem very cold and rude when posting your advice. Now I know this is a board for cats but you can't forget that there are people invovled with these issues, (some people...no, most people become cat owners without knowing what they are getting themselves into and need some [b]nice [/b]helpful advice) and I don't know how you feel about yourself but I know that I am not perfect I don't believe anyone else is either there is no need to respond to the posts in such a seemingly superior manner. Now for the notion that cats belong indoors, that just blows my mind and I [b]personally[/b] cannot wrap my mind around it. I am aware of the dangers of the outdoors for animals, and have experienced alot of them if not all, but isn't it cruel to deny a cat fresh air, and a large area to explore and enjoy. I mean cats have been around for longer than humans and they survived all by themselves before we built a house for them inhabit. Sorry again only my opinion. The Teaser toy, I agree a great toy if used correctly, but I also stess very "dangerous" particularly in this situation. The person who posted this in the first place said that she provides toys for her cat that he is not interested in them. Again I don't think the teaser toy would be a good idea for a cat that already injures people with it's claws without provocation. About the weight loss and the vet, I did say take the cat to the vet, "I would suggest the vet as well," I may have lost that point with defending the owner and again I'm sorry. About my cat Tiny: I never suggested not getting the bloodwork and if it appears that way I (again) am sorry. I was merely relating my personal experience to the owner, and the vets I had taken Tiny to, did make it clear that the tests would diagnose what was causing Tiny's weight loss, but would not be treatable and he would die. I can't remember the exact list of diseases they gave me it was nearly a year ago, but I DID make it clear that [b]I[/b] did not opt for the tests because of this fact. Throwing the cat outside: I know that the cat is not human, I also know that the cat does not know why he is being put outside so this is being counterproductive. Again I was just defending the owner for what [b]seemed[/b] to be harsh remarks from Traci. I also want to stress that I did not mean to actually THROW the cat outdoors maybe set it outside the door. I have never actually thrown, tossed, or hurled a cat out of my door. And to clarify I only meant that we are humans and not perfect and we can only be abused and tormented so much and I thought putting the cat outside was an acceptable approach as opposed to kicking, hitting, slapping, or injuring the cat in anyway. And for my last comment that you addressed, you are right I should not presume to know you, and again being new to this board, I don't know you and unfortunately you don't give people that opportunity. (If there is a place here where I can read about you as more of a person and your own personal experiences please direct me to it.) I know it is your job to give advice about the cats well being, but again you seem too clinical and cold, unaware or uncaring for what the owner is going through or what the cat may be feeling emotionally only physically. I never meant to imply that you would hurt a human child for biting or slicing you, I merely meant to give an altenate way to look at the situation and give you something to ponder. Also and I cannot stress this enough I never, during anything I suggested told the cat owner to slap or throw the cat. I do not condone the abuse of animals in anyway. By "lightly slap", and perhaps this is my "country" way of speaking, I was thinking of when my cat is on the counter and I walk up behind it and lightly ...tap...the cat on the backside to surprise it, and then put in in the floor, or if the cats are fighting tap the cat with two fingers on the backside to distract them and get them to stop. Now I admit that I am not a veterinarian and I have no veterinary training and I don't imply that I do, I merely offer my advise from years of experience with cats and what works for me and my cats. Finally I apologize for insulting anyone, especially Traci, but I hope my explanations and and suggestions to the owner and to you Traci, help out with the issues posted on the site and I hope to make a few new friends. Thank You.

(P.S. Something that may help you Traci is when you say "this is counterproductive" please explain to the owner why, so maybe they have an opportunity to understand what they are doing wrong and not feel as if they are being told that they don't know what they are doing and have no business owning a cat. Saying "this is counterproductive" and going on with your thought is counterproductive, it's the same as putting a cat outside for being bad, they don't know why and will continue the Behavior , same goes for humans, if we don't know why we don't care and continue doing it. (Not attacking just trying to help))