Thank you for your long replies. First, we have tried ALL of the suggestions listed here. We understood that when he 1st came home that he'd have accidents. No big deal, it lasted a few days and he got better - used the box fine. Then, the vet game him that shot that made him pee and since then we've had the issue. I have bought 3 new boxes; some look different, some the same, some with new litter, some with old - flat refusing it. Tired different spots, too. We NEVER scold him or show frustration. In fact, when he does pee in it, we praise him. He has a lot of freedom most of the time, but when I am not looking he is peeing my curtains.
The crate seems extreme, but it is the only thing that works at night. He used it several times last night - poop and pee. I will go by the advice of my vet, but you have to understand that he can not continue to cause us to replace expensive things. We are by no means rich - money is tight for us now, and this is a large expense to us. Total so far is over $1300 including replaced items and medical bills. We are doing what we think works for our situation. Max flat out refuses the box, after trying MANY different kinds with MANY kinds of litter. I HAVE to make him comfortable with that box again. Everything that has been suggested here has failed. I will let you know what our vet thinks.
At my wits end with training Max
Re: At my wits end with training Max
OK - for whatever reason, we are having difficulty getting Max to use the box all of the time. The vet wants to check one more time to make sure he does not have a bacterial infection (which we think he does not). I believe the behavior he is showing is purely behavioral.
Here is what has been happening:
- He will use the box sometimes - but not always. Sometimes he pees in it, other times he uses the old carpet remenant near it. He even poops in places other than his box. Yesterday, for example, I was changing my daughter and my husband was cutting the grass. When I can not watch him, he goes in the basement. A half hour later, I went to let him out, and he pooped on the stairs.
- We ended up replacing the flooring in my dining room because of the overwhelming smell. We just could not get 100% of it out. After the carpet was removed and the subfloor was exposed, he went in there and peed on that. We then cleaned every inch of that floor with NM. We ended up putting a lamanate that looks like hardwood in there.
- Litter box - tried everything -literally. New boxes, new litters, new locations. Nothing is working 100% of the time.
Many have told us that if he used the box before all of this, he will again. But what am I doing wrong? He is confined when we are at work. I'm sorry, he just can't have the run while I am away. He WILL pee everywhere. The vet said to keep him in a smaller area while we are away. We do not scold him when he has an accident. We calmly clean it up. This is just not getting better! Help
Here is what has been happening:
- He will use the box sometimes - but not always. Sometimes he pees in it, other times he uses the old carpet remenant near it. He even poops in places other than his box. Yesterday, for example, I was changing my daughter and my husband was cutting the grass. When I can not watch him, he goes in the basement. A half hour later, I went to let him out, and he pooped on the stairs.
- We ended up replacing the flooring in my dining room because of the overwhelming smell. We just could not get 100% of it out. After the carpet was removed and the subfloor was exposed, he went in there and peed on that. We then cleaned every inch of that floor with NM. We ended up putting a lamanate that looks like hardwood in there.
- Litter box - tried everything -literally. New boxes, new litters, new locations. Nothing is working 100% of the time.
Many have told us that if he used the box before all of this, he will again. But what am I doing wrong? He is confined when we are at work. I'm sorry, he just can't have the run while I am away. He WILL pee everywhere. The vet said to keep him in a smaller area while we are away. We do not scold him when he has an accident. We calmly clean it up. This is just not getting better! Help
Re: At my wits end with training Max
Get him back to your vet for a new exam and urinalysis, if there is some reason you feel your vet isn't being thorough, then see a NEW vet who is more comitted.
Confinement, as I explained earlier, is probably compounding the problem. I understand your reluctance to let him out when you're gone, but if you're gone for long periods every day, imagine the stress this is placing on him.
I think you're doing too much, all at once. You have to start at the beginning and attempt to try the tips given you earlier, on a day by day basis, with consistency, not just during those times he leaves accidents. It is a daily comittment, and when one step has been successful, then and only then, move on to the next step, etc.
Confinement, as I explained earlier, is probably compounding the problem. I understand your reluctance to let him out when you're gone, but if you're gone for long periods every day, imagine the stress this is placing on him.
I think you're doing too much, all at once. You have to start at the beginning and attempt to try the tips given you earlier, on a day by day basis, with consistency, not just during those times he leaves accidents. It is a daily comittment, and when one step has been successful, then and only then, move on to the next step, etc.
..........Traci
Re: At my wits end with training Max
I also feel you are doing to much. And as I tried to say earlier, cats have this knack of knowing exactly what you want them to do - and then simply refuse to do it. He knows the expectation that is placed on him, and so he'll try to avoid it. Please, don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to critisize you. I know it's hard and you have a baby as well ... I feel for you! I'm glad you are still committed to him and continue to find a way.
What about a cat psychologist? Have you tried that?
What about a cat psychologist? Have you tried that?
Re: At my wits end with training Max
OK - I am so confused - I have done everything that the vet AND people on this board have said. I guess I don't understand how I am moving too fast 
How do I start from the beginning? I have had so much advice from so many people that I am confused now. Please have patience with me. I am trying to juggle Max, a 10 month old, and life itself - I am fighting a staph infection in my foot (no idea how I got that) and I am running on empty - but I will do what I can for Max. It just seems that everything people have told me to do has not worked. Should I expect this to take months? Fine, but I just am not sure on when I should expect results. I realize people have given me advice, which I appreciate wholeheartedly, but can someone please give me some simple, easy to understand instructions that i can follow with Max? If not, I will be on my merry way. Thanks
But my husband and I work all day. I simply don't have a choice. Letting him possibly ruin my home is not an option. I'm sorry - even the vet agrees with me on that one (several vets, I should say). When we ARE home, he is out without restriction with us, to lay in front of the door, in the window, etc. We play and cuddle with him too.Confinement, as I explained earlier, is probably compounding the problem. I understand your reluctance to let him out when you're gone, but if you're gone for long periods every day, imagine the stress this is placing on him.
How do I start from the beginning? I have had so much advice from so many people that I am confused now. Please have patience with me. I am trying to juggle Max, a 10 month old, and life itself - I am fighting a staph infection in my foot (no idea how I got that) and I am running on empty - but I will do what I can for Max. It just seems that everything people have told me to do has not worked. Should I expect this to take months? Fine, but I just am not sure on when I should expect results. I realize people have given me advice, which I appreciate wholeheartedly, but can someone please give me some simple, easy to understand instructions that i can follow with Max? If not, I will be on my merry way. Thanks
Re: At my wits end with training Max
I just spent some considerable time going through your posts again from the very beginning. I would suggest you do the same. (in the event one or more obvious things were missed)
The subfloor needed to be replaced, not just laminate placed on top of it. An alternative for subfloors with minimal damage would be a sealant prior to placing any new linoleum, laminate, wood floors, etc back on top of the subfloor. But, since you've already placed new flooring, it's moot at this point.
Max's urinating in one spot, and especially at those times he urinates in front of you, is his way of trying to get your attention to something that is displeasing to him. That could be severe stress, pain, continued urinary tract infection, a newly developing crystal in the urinary tract, or simply wanting you to give him attention (or check his box and clean it). The vet visit is crucial to rule out new infection or newly developing crystals, and it's crucial you get him re-evaluated with a new appointment and new urinalysis immediately.
The times he defecates on the stairs could indicate both stress, and the inability to get to his litterbox in time when he feels an urge to go. He could very well still be trying to heal, so if he's still painful, it's possible that climbing the basement stairs everyday is prohibitive for him.
The urinating in the diningroom- he is associating that with getting your attention, since he knows that is an area you will most likely check and see him. He's getting your attention, so FIND OUT WHY.
The towel he sleeps on and subsequently urinates on, should be washed in the washer completely, and his bedding should be replaced entirely, not with a towel, but something he is not likely to urinate on. If you replace it with a towel again, he will associate it with urination and will continue to urinate on any towel you provide him. Instead, use a fleece cat pad, put a favorite toy on the bed for him, some item of his that he is particularly fond of so that he isn't likely to urinate on it or his bed.
The times you spend with your baby may also be upsetting him, particularly if he is demanding attention at the same time. He could also be stressed at the baby's presence entirely, since babies cry alot, take your attention, and this leads to alot of stress and alienation from your cat.
You say you spend time with him when you're home, but is it quality time, and is that time well spent engaging in playtime, activity, cuddling and bonding? He is cooped up all day with nothing to do, no stimulation to keep him happy and secure. Does he have a cat tree or scratching post? Do you have a safe window he can sit and look outside? Does he have plenty of toys to keep him entertained? Do you have a babysitter at home, or is your baby outside of the home when you're at work? If there is a babysitter in your home, then you'll want to check into that, such as what goes on during the day when you're gone, is it putting additional stress on Max?
Have you got him on a specific veterinary diet now, one that he is eating sufficiently?
As for the litterboxes, don't frequently switch types of litter, this should only have been done once, in the event he was avoiding the type of litter only. It's been suggested to you to try ONE type of litter in one box, and a second type of litter in another box (or paper towels) located in a different area...to determine which box he prefers. Once you know which type of litter he prefers, then that is the type you should use for both boxes. Both boxes need to be scooped on a daily basis, and cleaned thoroughly on a weekly basis. Don't use fragrant dish soaps or kitchen cleaners to clean the box, as some scented solutions can leave a scent the cat will avoid. Don't place carpet remnants anywhere on the floor, as he will associate them with the prior carpet on the stairs and in your diningroom where he associates the urination. If you're trying to control litter tracking, then only use a plastic runner under and slightly in front of the box.
Is the basement dark and scary for him? Are there windows open that allow loud outside noises that may be scaring him? Try leaving on a radio or tv with the sound on very low to help drown out any loud noises.
He needs your attention to all of these matters. First and foremost is the veterinary visit and the urinalysis, and ruling out potential pain or inflammation. But, stress is obviously a major factor here as well, and you MUST remain calm and take one step at a time.
The vet visit is the first step.
The second step: Choose the litter type he has seemed to be using, and use only that one in both boxes. Place the boxes in seperate areas of the room, maybe even place one box near the bottom of the stairs to encourage him to use it instead of the stairs. Then, slowly, in a few days, gradually move that box back each day or two to the desired location.
If you see him trying to urinate in the diningroom, use a squirt-bottle to immediately spray him once, with a stern "NO", then promptly (but gently), physically place him in the litterbox and stay with him for a moment. Do nothing more. Do not scold him. If he doesn't go in the box, then ignore him and resume your other activity. You may have to do this a few times but he will learn after the first few times.
The third step: Do not use heavy or scented cleaners to mop the floor around his litterboxes or bedding. Use only mild soap and water and rinse it well.
The fourth step: Figure out what goes on during the day when you're gone (i.e., babysitter if this applies). Spend some quality time with him BEFORE you leave from work, and directly when you get home from work. He needs to have your attention, since he has no attention during the day. Make sure he has stimulating toys, a kitty perch or something safe to keep him happy during the day.
The fifth step: When you are spending time with the baby, ask your husband to spend time with Max, or vice versa. If you've for some reason, kept Max away from the baby, then slowly allow him to be near the baby and let him check her out, with smells, etc. He needs to know that HE is still a valued member of the family.
The sixth step: One day at a time!
The subfloor needed to be replaced, not just laminate placed on top of it. An alternative for subfloors with minimal damage would be a sealant prior to placing any new linoleum, laminate, wood floors, etc back on top of the subfloor. But, since you've already placed new flooring, it's moot at this point.
Max's urinating in one spot, and especially at those times he urinates in front of you, is his way of trying to get your attention to something that is displeasing to him. That could be severe stress, pain, continued urinary tract infection, a newly developing crystal in the urinary tract, or simply wanting you to give him attention (or check his box and clean it). The vet visit is crucial to rule out new infection or newly developing crystals, and it's crucial you get him re-evaluated with a new appointment and new urinalysis immediately.
The times he defecates on the stairs could indicate both stress, and the inability to get to his litterbox in time when he feels an urge to go. He could very well still be trying to heal, so if he's still painful, it's possible that climbing the basement stairs everyday is prohibitive for him.
The urinating in the diningroom- he is associating that with getting your attention, since he knows that is an area you will most likely check and see him. He's getting your attention, so FIND OUT WHY.
The towel he sleeps on and subsequently urinates on, should be washed in the washer completely, and his bedding should be replaced entirely, not with a towel, but something he is not likely to urinate on. If you replace it with a towel again, he will associate it with urination and will continue to urinate on any towel you provide him. Instead, use a fleece cat pad, put a favorite toy on the bed for him, some item of his that he is particularly fond of so that he isn't likely to urinate on it or his bed.
The times you spend with your baby may also be upsetting him, particularly if he is demanding attention at the same time. He could also be stressed at the baby's presence entirely, since babies cry alot, take your attention, and this leads to alot of stress and alienation from your cat.
You say you spend time with him when you're home, but is it quality time, and is that time well spent engaging in playtime, activity, cuddling and bonding? He is cooped up all day with nothing to do, no stimulation to keep him happy and secure. Does he have a cat tree or scratching post? Do you have a safe window he can sit and look outside? Does he have plenty of toys to keep him entertained? Do you have a babysitter at home, or is your baby outside of the home when you're at work? If there is a babysitter in your home, then you'll want to check into that, such as what goes on during the day when you're gone, is it putting additional stress on Max?
Have you got him on a specific veterinary diet now, one that he is eating sufficiently?
As for the litterboxes, don't frequently switch types of litter, this should only have been done once, in the event he was avoiding the type of litter only. It's been suggested to you to try ONE type of litter in one box, and a second type of litter in another box (or paper towels) located in a different area...to determine which box he prefers. Once you know which type of litter he prefers, then that is the type you should use for both boxes. Both boxes need to be scooped on a daily basis, and cleaned thoroughly on a weekly basis. Don't use fragrant dish soaps or kitchen cleaners to clean the box, as some scented solutions can leave a scent the cat will avoid. Don't place carpet remnants anywhere on the floor, as he will associate them with the prior carpet on the stairs and in your diningroom where he associates the urination. If you're trying to control litter tracking, then only use a plastic runner under and slightly in front of the box.
Is the basement dark and scary for him? Are there windows open that allow loud outside noises that may be scaring him? Try leaving on a radio or tv with the sound on very low to help drown out any loud noises.
He needs your attention to all of these matters. First and foremost is the veterinary visit and the urinalysis, and ruling out potential pain or inflammation. But, stress is obviously a major factor here as well, and you MUST remain calm and take one step at a time.
The vet visit is the first step.
The second step: Choose the litter type he has seemed to be using, and use only that one in both boxes. Place the boxes in seperate areas of the room, maybe even place one box near the bottom of the stairs to encourage him to use it instead of the stairs. Then, slowly, in a few days, gradually move that box back each day or two to the desired location.
If you see him trying to urinate in the diningroom, use a squirt-bottle to immediately spray him once, with a stern "NO", then promptly (but gently), physically place him in the litterbox and stay with him for a moment. Do nothing more. Do not scold him. If he doesn't go in the box, then ignore him and resume your other activity. You may have to do this a few times but he will learn after the first few times.
The third step: Do not use heavy or scented cleaners to mop the floor around his litterboxes or bedding. Use only mild soap and water and rinse it well.
The fourth step: Figure out what goes on during the day when you're gone (i.e., babysitter if this applies). Spend some quality time with him BEFORE you leave from work, and directly when you get home from work. He needs to have your attention, since he has no attention during the day. Make sure he has stimulating toys, a kitty perch or something safe to keep him happy during the day.
The fifth step: When you are spending time with the baby, ask your husband to spend time with Max, or vice versa. If you've for some reason, kept Max away from the baby, then slowly allow him to be near the baby and let him check her out, with smells, etc. He needs to know that HE is still a valued member of the family.
The sixth step: One day at a time!
..........Traci
Re: At my wits end with training Max
Thank you for your responses. I think we are allowing Max to have too much too fast as far as training. In everything I have read, it states that when you can not be with your cat (ie, work, sleep) then he needs to be in a "Safe room" with only food, water, and the box. No other areas should be there where he could go - blankets, towels, etc. We were giving him the run of the basement, which in the past, he enjoyed. Our basement is divided into several rooms, one being unfinished. It is a decent size - not too small, not too big. It did have some carpet runners in front of my husband's workbench, and he was having the occasional accident on it. We are removing those to leave concrete flooring. I cleaned the boxes well, and put Cat Attract in one, and the litter we used to use (unscented scoopable) in the other. As I was cleaning the basement after the litterboxes, he jumped right in the old litter (but new box - a Sterlite container for sweaters) and peed. He even covered it up. So, he does know how to do it. It is just a matter of getting him to use is 100% of the time. We aren't changing anything as far as what he has seen - both boxes have been there for a while, which he would use occasionally.
Part of me wants to let him have the run of the house at night, but then I am so afraid of what he will do. We have replaced so much in this attempt to retrain him. It is behavioral - no trace of infection has been found.
Part of me wants to let him have the run of the house at night, but then I am so afraid of what he will do. We have replaced so much in this attempt to retrain him. It is behavioral - no trace of infection has been found.
Re: At my wits end with training Max
Did you get a new exam and new urinalysis, if so, when??? If you haven't, you can't assume he may not be developing a new problem, or delay in healing.Syd&Max wrote:It is behavioral - no trace of infection has been found.
Since he seems to use the litterbox in the basement, then try making an area there more comfortable and inviting to him, with a kitty tree, scratching post, cat stuff, but do be sure some of those things are still available to him upstairs as well.
..........Traci
Re: At my wits end with training Max
We seem to be having some success with Max this weekend. We put his "room" in the basement basically back to what it used to look like - but with two boxes, and he is using both. He seems to pee in one and poop in another. He has had the run of the house during the day, and loves it. He sits in the window sills, plays with our dog Sydney, and plays with us. I really want to let him have the run of the house all of the time, but the vet suggested we wait until he has used the boxes without accidents for 2 weeks. Keep your fingers crossed!
Re: At my wits end with training Max
Glad to hear that! 