At my wits end with training Max
At my wits end with training Max
I just don't get it - just when I think I am making 5 steps forward, we make 6 back with Max. He was doing pretty well with what we were doing: When we could not watch him, he was in a room in our basement without carpet, with two litter boxes, his feeding/drinking area, and lots of room to play. When he was in there, he was peeing and pooping inthe boxes. When he is out with us, he is OK. So, we gave him the run of the basement while we were away. I am a teacher and started back to work on Monday. He did well Mon and Tues, but Wed and today he is not using the box again. I found poop on the stairs and in the finished basement area. I could not find where he was peeing until today - a towel he has been using as a blanket to sleep on. I am wondering if it has to do with him being down there longer?? Why was he using it so well and now not at all?! I am SO frustrated. It is taking up so much of my time and energy. At this point, I am considering putting him in a large breed dog cage with only a litter box, food, and water. What do I do? UGH!
Re: At my wits end with training Max
I'd suggest getting him re-evaluated by your vet ASAP.
..........Traci
Re: At my wits end with training Max
Usually cats don't pee where they sleep. So that's odd that he's peeing on his blanket. There could definitely be something wrong there. If he checks out physically, you could try a special litter called "cat attract." It's supposed to be specially formulated in texture and fragrance and all that. I hope that you find an answer soon, though. I know that it is very frustrating when the cat won't cooperate!
Re: At my wits end with training Max
Max used the box again. I think we are maybe going too fast as far as re-introducing him the house, and the fact that our schedules have changed. He has checked out as far as everything else. Many say cats can take a while to re-train. I guess I have to be patient 
Re: At my wits end with training Max
I think the fact that you went back to work and he suddenly found himself alone for longer periods of time might have set him back. Does he have places to look out from the basement room, watch birds etc? If he's confined for too long he might just get too bored.
Well my husband and I sat and talked for a long time today about Max. This truly is wearing me very thin; I am back to teaching full-time, have a crawling 9 month old, and on top of all of this a cat that is ruining our house. I have tried all the techniques that I have read on the internet and from what very little the emergency vet has told us. Nothing seems to be working. Somehow, he got out last night from his little room (somehow figured out the cat door) and peed in an area that he peed in before in my dining room - I thought I cleaned that up very well, but I guess not. He peed on my drapery, which now will need replaced. I have an apt on Monday to have his urine checked, and to sit with the vet to figure out what to do. I NEED a behavior plan - this cat can not continue to ruin my home and cause such stress between all of us. He has literally cost us a small fortune - between the vet bills, the new couches, the several litter boxes and litter I have tried, etc. My husband is fed up with him, and I am trying to be so patient and understanding with Max, but it is getting tiresome. He is a member of our family, but if it turns out that he will never use the box again, then he can not stay with us. As much as that pains me, it is what has to be. The old jerky vet told me that some cats never rebound and can never use the box again. He has serious litterbox aversion, and yes, we have tried EVERYTHING. I am beginning to feel as though there is no hope here. HOW does a cat that was so great at using his box all of a sudden refuse? Please, don't reply that he needs to see a vet. I know that, and it is being done Monday. Is there a chance for us to live normal again? When he IS out, I am so paranoid that he is going to pee that I follow him, and can't relax while he roams. I am so worried that he will pee somewhere, and that I will miss it. He does not normally do it in front of me - not sure why.
I am sorry that this sounds so negative, but I am so worn out at this point. I love that cat - but this stress is too much for me. What does one do with a cat that will not use a box?
Please, can someone offer me any hope?
ETA - The room in the basement just wasn't cutting it - we found lots 'o poop behind the furnace. So, we have downgraded to the large (a husky could fit in it) cage with just the box, food, and water. As soon as I put him in the cage, he went right to the litter and peed. Then, he jumped out like he was scared. I praised him for using the box, held him, then put him back in. I really hope the vet can give me some insight on Monday.
I am sorry that this sounds so negative, but I am so worn out at this point. I love that cat - but this stress is too much for me. What does one do with a cat that will not use a box?
Please, can someone offer me any hope?
ETA - The room in the basement just wasn't cutting it - we found lots 'o poop behind the furnace. So, we have downgraded to the large (a husky could fit in it) cage with just the box, food, and water. As soon as I put him in the cage, he went right to the litter and peed. Then, he jumped out like he was scared. I praised him for using the box, held him, then put him back in. I really hope the vet can give me some insight on Monday.
Re: At my wits end with training Max
I don't really have any advice for you, but I just wanted to let you know that you aren't being unreasonable. It is horribly frustrating when you have this kind of problem. I had one cat doing that for just two days, and I was in tears and feeling absolutely hopeless. (Then there was the foster kitten who would pee on me when I was sleeping...) Even if you know that he isn't doing it to be mean or purposely bad, you start to twist it around in your mind that he is somehow just trying to make you miserable. So just try to remember that he's not trying to make your life difficult. But that doesn't mean that you need to let him pee on your stuff. And don't feel guilty about putting him in the crate. It's not going to hurt him in the short-term, especially if you take him out and give him love a few times a day. Anyway, I have lots of sympathy for you, and hope that you are able to fix the problem.
Oh, actually, I might have a suggestion... have you tried lining the litterbox with a towel, rather than litter? Or just the empty box with no litter at all?
Oh, actually, I might have a suggestion... have you tried lining the litterbox with a towel, rather than litter? Or just the empty box with no litter at all?
I'm sorry, but I don't necessarily agree with your approach.
You need to start from the beginning, and to remember that Max had a traumatic experience with a UTI and catheterization and hospitalization. Then, he was expected to recover perfectly at home, as well as expected to urinate normally and in appropriate places.
You must understand that cats cannot and do not tolerate stress as humans do, and he has been under a GREAT AMOUNT of stress. Your stress alone is probably contributing to his. Your schedule, the baby, his traumatic experience, your attempts at getting him to use the litterbox, confined to one area, and other things has been overwhelming for him. Imagine the abrupt change in HIS environment, and you should be able to understand how stressful this has been for him.
While each of us has probably, at one time or another, had to deal with a kitty who urinates in unwanted places, it is by no means excuseable to give up on our cats, you have to learn how to deal with patience, comittment, and find solutions to benefit MAX's health, since he is soley dependent upon you to do so. Remember please, he has had to endure several environmental changes, hospitalization, and new environmental changes AFTER his hospitalization, he is most likely more confused than you are.
The better approach would have been not to make drastic adjustments to his environment after the catheterization and hospitalization (confining him to the basement, moving litterboxes, using multiple cleaning agents, expressing your frustration around him, and then confining him to a crate). Any veterinary procedure recovery requires a calm, quiet and comfortable atmosphere with as little changing of his normal environment and routine as possible. The first incidences were most likely due to pain or uncomfortableness or inflammation leading to frequent urges to urinate, and further stress ensued because his routine and environment was constantly changing as you attempted to deal with the urine accidents. So, it is escalating, and in order to resolve it, you must start at the beginning and try again, ONE STEP AT A TIME.
Crating him is not the solution. As evidenced by his "fearful" behavior after using the box inside the crate, he is associating the crate with bad behavior percieved by you. This is additional stress that he does not need.
Instead, more appropriate steps you can take may include the following:
1) buy totally NEW litterboxes, and place them in different rooms, with one room being the most familiar to him where he has always had a litterbox, but ensure that area is an easily accessible area, not one where he has to navigate steps and stairs to get to. Also ensure the rooms are in private areas, quiet, and not near the baby's room (because he could be associating a crying baby with avoidance of his litterbox)
2) put his normal litter in one box, and paper towels or newspaper in the other, in the event he is associating the current litter to his episode of hospitalization or recovery. Whichever one he uses most, will be your cue to what he prefers as litter. Many cats who had catheterization or surgery will often associate their litterbox with that traumatic experience, so it may be necessary to change the type of litter.
3) keep both boxes scooped and cleaned at all times, not just once during the day, but whenever you see there is waste in the box. Keeping it spotless at all times during the recovery stage helps the cat to DIS-associate a painful experience, and will be more likely to use it on a more normal basis. Completely and thoroughly wash and rinse well, both boxes at least once a week to rid older urine/feces odors, another factor that many cats avoid a litterbox.
4) keep your own stress limited, and do NOT show your frustration or anger around him. Cats are sensitive creatures who can sense our emotions and body language, tone of voice, and stress, and they will react to the stress with unusual behavior....so be calm, patient, forgiving, and comitted to resolving this.
5) do not consistently show your frustration or reprimand him, but calmly and slowly work with each approach so that he is not overwhelmed with all the changes. The more voiceful or stern you are, the more likely he is to be stressed and to react. You have to encourage his good behavior, and to encourage a calm approach which he will recognize faster than a stern approach.
6) you have to expect this will take some time, it won't happen overnight. There hasn't been an overly long time frame here to presume the situation cannot be resolved. It CAN be resolved, but you need to be committed to it, and your husband needs to be comitted to it, and you can't expect Max to behave normaly until all of the stress in the home has been reduced and ceased.
7) spend lots of time with him and make that time QUALITY time, with cuddling, playtime, activity, one-on-one. When the baby is sleeping, or not demanding your time, spend time with Max...take a nap with him, cuddle with him, engage yourself in a playful exercise with him...drag our his favorite toys and make the time enjoyable and comfortable for him. He needs your attention, and during this recovery period, that is what he needs most from you, along with a whole lot of love and patience from you. When he feels secure again, when he feels he is not being reprimanded for his urination habits, and when he feels you are taking special time for him, then the urinating behavior should resolve.
8 ) do not confine him to a crate. As explained above, you are enforcing the urinating behavior to continue, and adding additional stress that he cannot handle, and probably feels he is in "trouble" because he's in a crate. Cat's cannot be confined, they demand room to roam about, play and exercise.
9) take each step ONE AT A TIME, taking one or two days for each step, and approaching them calmly, quietly, and letting him know that you are accomodating him, not reprimanding him. Encourage your husband to do the same, and for him to take the same calm approach. His attitude his only making the situation worse. Max doesn't understand all the changes that have taken place, and he certainly doesn't understand you and your husband's frustrations.
10) use only enzymatic cleaners, like Nature's Miracle, to clean areas he has marked. You may need to treat the areas more than once. Let the areas dry completely before treating again. Do not use other products or combinations of products, as these will only mask the odors and Max will still be able to smell them and he could urinate on them again. Do not use air frsheners, powders, etc in or around his litterbox, these are the worst things one can do.
11) at the vet appointment, be clear to your vet about Max's urinating in undesireable areas and get ruled out the possibility of a developing infection or even a crystal or urolith undetected higher up into the urethra. A complete urinalysis should be done with careful examination of the urine sediment. An x-ray may even be feasible if there is anything unusual or significant upon the urinalysis or urine sediment.
12) Don't give up on Max. You adopted him for life, he's depending on you to do right by him. Don't expect so much from him, he's been through an awful lot, what seems minimal to you, is quite an overwhelming stressful experience to HIM.
You need to start from the beginning, and to remember that Max had a traumatic experience with a UTI and catheterization and hospitalization. Then, he was expected to recover perfectly at home, as well as expected to urinate normally and in appropriate places.
You must understand that cats cannot and do not tolerate stress as humans do, and he has been under a GREAT AMOUNT of stress. Your stress alone is probably contributing to his. Your schedule, the baby, his traumatic experience, your attempts at getting him to use the litterbox, confined to one area, and other things has been overwhelming for him. Imagine the abrupt change in HIS environment, and you should be able to understand how stressful this has been for him.
While each of us has probably, at one time or another, had to deal with a kitty who urinates in unwanted places, it is by no means excuseable to give up on our cats, you have to learn how to deal with patience, comittment, and find solutions to benefit MAX's health, since he is soley dependent upon you to do so. Remember please, he has had to endure several environmental changes, hospitalization, and new environmental changes AFTER his hospitalization, he is most likely more confused than you are.
The better approach would have been not to make drastic adjustments to his environment after the catheterization and hospitalization (confining him to the basement, moving litterboxes, using multiple cleaning agents, expressing your frustration around him, and then confining him to a crate). Any veterinary procedure recovery requires a calm, quiet and comfortable atmosphere with as little changing of his normal environment and routine as possible. The first incidences were most likely due to pain or uncomfortableness or inflammation leading to frequent urges to urinate, and further stress ensued because his routine and environment was constantly changing as you attempted to deal with the urine accidents. So, it is escalating, and in order to resolve it, you must start at the beginning and try again, ONE STEP AT A TIME.
Crating him is not the solution. As evidenced by his "fearful" behavior after using the box inside the crate, he is associating the crate with bad behavior percieved by you. This is additional stress that he does not need.
Instead, more appropriate steps you can take may include the following:
1) buy totally NEW litterboxes, and place them in different rooms, with one room being the most familiar to him where he has always had a litterbox, but ensure that area is an easily accessible area, not one where he has to navigate steps and stairs to get to. Also ensure the rooms are in private areas, quiet, and not near the baby's room (because he could be associating a crying baby with avoidance of his litterbox)
2) put his normal litter in one box, and paper towels or newspaper in the other, in the event he is associating the current litter to his episode of hospitalization or recovery. Whichever one he uses most, will be your cue to what he prefers as litter. Many cats who had catheterization or surgery will often associate their litterbox with that traumatic experience, so it may be necessary to change the type of litter.
3) keep both boxes scooped and cleaned at all times, not just once during the day, but whenever you see there is waste in the box. Keeping it spotless at all times during the recovery stage helps the cat to DIS-associate a painful experience, and will be more likely to use it on a more normal basis. Completely and thoroughly wash and rinse well, both boxes at least once a week to rid older urine/feces odors, another factor that many cats avoid a litterbox.
4) keep your own stress limited, and do NOT show your frustration or anger around him. Cats are sensitive creatures who can sense our emotions and body language, tone of voice, and stress, and they will react to the stress with unusual behavior....so be calm, patient, forgiving, and comitted to resolving this.
5) do not consistently show your frustration or reprimand him, but calmly and slowly work with each approach so that he is not overwhelmed with all the changes. The more voiceful or stern you are, the more likely he is to be stressed and to react. You have to encourage his good behavior, and to encourage a calm approach which he will recognize faster than a stern approach.
6) you have to expect this will take some time, it won't happen overnight. There hasn't been an overly long time frame here to presume the situation cannot be resolved. It CAN be resolved, but you need to be committed to it, and your husband needs to be comitted to it, and you can't expect Max to behave normaly until all of the stress in the home has been reduced and ceased.
7) spend lots of time with him and make that time QUALITY time, with cuddling, playtime, activity, one-on-one. When the baby is sleeping, or not demanding your time, spend time with Max...take a nap with him, cuddle with him, engage yourself in a playful exercise with him...drag our his favorite toys and make the time enjoyable and comfortable for him. He needs your attention, and during this recovery period, that is what he needs most from you, along with a whole lot of love and patience from you. When he feels secure again, when he feels he is not being reprimanded for his urination habits, and when he feels you are taking special time for him, then the urinating behavior should resolve.
8 ) do not confine him to a crate. As explained above, you are enforcing the urinating behavior to continue, and adding additional stress that he cannot handle, and probably feels he is in "trouble" because he's in a crate. Cat's cannot be confined, they demand room to roam about, play and exercise.
9) take each step ONE AT A TIME, taking one or two days for each step, and approaching them calmly, quietly, and letting him know that you are accomodating him, not reprimanding him. Encourage your husband to do the same, and for him to take the same calm approach. His attitude his only making the situation worse. Max doesn't understand all the changes that have taken place, and he certainly doesn't understand you and your husband's frustrations.
10) use only enzymatic cleaners, like Nature's Miracle, to clean areas he has marked. You may need to treat the areas more than once. Let the areas dry completely before treating again. Do not use other products or combinations of products, as these will only mask the odors and Max will still be able to smell them and he could urinate on them again. Do not use air frsheners, powders, etc in or around his litterbox, these are the worst things one can do.
11) at the vet appointment, be clear to your vet about Max's urinating in undesireable areas and get ruled out the possibility of a developing infection or even a crystal or urolith undetected higher up into the urethra. A complete urinalysis should be done with careful examination of the urine sediment. An x-ray may even be feasible if there is anything unusual or significant upon the urinalysis or urine sediment.
12) Don't give up on Max. You adopted him for life, he's depending on you to do right by him. Don't expect so much from him, he's been through an awful lot, what seems minimal to you, is quite an overwhelming stressful experience to HIM.
..........Traci
Re: At my wits end with training Max
You have my full sympathie! It must be very draining, and you tried so much .... I'm very sorry nothing worked out so far! 
The only thing I can think of now is trying a radically different approach. I base this on the observation that cats oftentimes will not do what they sense is expected from them. This seems to be a typical and natural trait in cats - they often use roundabout ways to get to their aim, if you know what I mean. For example, when I call my dogs they will happily and immediately come to me, but when I call the cats, they will look, then look elsewhere or pretend they haven't heard. And when I don't say anything more and don't look at them, they will come after a minute. But if I get up to get them, they will run the other way! Somehow, cats don't seem to like to do what we want, at least not when we want it and expect them to and maybe even watch them. I think you know what I mean, I'm not so good putting this in words.
So, expanding from there I'm thinking, maybe the litterbox has become a big issue in Max's mind. He senses the expectations and frustrations now connected with his toilet behaviour and that disturbs him, so he puts off using the box, or avoids using it. He just might not like it anymore, precisely because it has become such a problem zone! And yes, he knows that!
So my suggestion is this:
If you have the nerve and patience to do it I would suggest putting his old box with his old litter in his old spot and let him be. Completely ignore him (regarding his toilet behaviour, not otherwise, of course). Let him have the run of the house, never go after him, never scold or praise him, nothing. Just like you used to behave before the problem started. You behave as if you don't want anything from him, as if all is fine, you behave just normal. If he pees or poos anywhere, don't say anything, bite your tongue, swallow your frustration etc.
This way there is a chance that he finds his old rythm again and doesn't feel that he's doing anything wrong or that anything is expected from him. It might regulate itself. He might regulate himself rather than feeling he is being monitored and disapproved of and locked away etc.
You understand what I mean? I'm not saying you did it all wrong so far, but it obviously didn't work with him. He seems to be more sensitive than other cats, plus disturbed from the illness he went through, so he's out of whack, kind of.
I really think the only reason why he is NOT using the box now is because he knows he SHOULD. And cats are a little weird with 'shoulds'. The litterbox has to become a non-issue once again for him to comfortably use it. It has to become no big deal again.
Trying this approach demands a lot from you, of course. There is a good chance you will have to clean up more for some time.
I just can't think of anything else. Just give it a thought.
I totally understand your frustration! With a job to work, a crawling baby in the house, it must be very difficult to stay patient in this kind of situation! But the tension in the house is also counterproductive to Max's problem.
Hope this helps! Best of luck!
The only thing I can think of now is trying a radically different approach. I base this on the observation that cats oftentimes will not do what they sense is expected from them. This seems to be a typical and natural trait in cats - they often use roundabout ways to get to their aim, if you know what I mean. For example, when I call my dogs they will happily and immediately come to me, but when I call the cats, they will look, then look elsewhere or pretend they haven't heard. And when I don't say anything more and don't look at them, they will come after a minute. But if I get up to get them, they will run the other way! Somehow, cats don't seem to like to do what we want, at least not when we want it and expect them to and maybe even watch them. I think you know what I mean, I'm not so good putting this in words.
So, expanding from there I'm thinking, maybe the litterbox has become a big issue in Max's mind. He senses the expectations and frustrations now connected with his toilet behaviour and that disturbs him, so he puts off using the box, or avoids using it. He just might not like it anymore, precisely because it has become such a problem zone! And yes, he knows that!
So my suggestion is this:
If you have the nerve and patience to do it I would suggest putting his old box with his old litter in his old spot and let him be. Completely ignore him (regarding his toilet behaviour, not otherwise, of course). Let him have the run of the house, never go after him, never scold or praise him, nothing. Just like you used to behave before the problem started. You behave as if you don't want anything from him, as if all is fine, you behave just normal. If he pees or poos anywhere, don't say anything, bite your tongue, swallow your frustration etc.
This way there is a chance that he finds his old rythm again and doesn't feel that he's doing anything wrong or that anything is expected from him. It might regulate itself. He might regulate himself rather than feeling he is being monitored and disapproved of and locked away etc.
You understand what I mean? I'm not saying you did it all wrong so far, but it obviously didn't work with him. He seems to be more sensitive than other cats, plus disturbed from the illness he went through, so he's out of whack, kind of.
I really think the only reason why he is NOT using the box now is because he knows he SHOULD. And cats are a little weird with 'shoulds'. The litterbox has to become a non-issue once again for him to comfortably use it. It has to become no big deal again.
Trying this approach demands a lot from you, of course. There is a good chance you will have to clean up more for some time.
I just can't think of anything else. Just give it a thought.
I totally understand your frustration! With a job to work, a crawling baby in the house, it must be very difficult to stay patient in this kind of situation! But the tension in the house is also counterproductive to Max's problem.
Hope this helps! Best of luck!
I just remember a good example that might make it clearer what I was talking about.
Two months ago we had to collect a urin sample from one of our cats. The vet had given us a special sterile sand that doesn't absorb fluids, so we made a special litterbox for her with that. She wouldn't go in there. We then took cotton wool instead of that sand, she wouldn't go in there either. For two days we would be watching her, always ready with the urin jar, but she only looked at the box and left, didn't use it. We then discovered that she had peed into the shower drain when we were sleeping.
She wasn't even ill or otherwise stressed out, but just the fact that we were always watching her, following her when she walked towards the bathroom, the changed litter ... it was enough for her to totally avoid the box altogether.
We then decided to put her normal litter back and she happily went in immediately. We pretended that we don't want anything from her, didn't follow her for a day until she was relaxed again. Then we creeped up behind her when she had a pee, lifted her tail and had her pee straight into the jar!
Just to stress my point how sensitive they are with their box and being watched etc.
Like Traci said, it is very important that you convey the feeling to Max that everything is okay, that he's not doing anything wrong. Only then he'll slowly relax again.
Two months ago we had to collect a urin sample from one of our cats. The vet had given us a special sterile sand that doesn't absorb fluids, so we made a special litterbox for her with that. She wouldn't go in there. We then took cotton wool instead of that sand, she wouldn't go in there either. For two days we would be watching her, always ready with the urin jar, but she only looked at the box and left, didn't use it. We then discovered that she had peed into the shower drain when we were sleeping.
She wasn't even ill or otherwise stressed out, but just the fact that we were always watching her, following her when she walked towards the bathroom, the changed litter ... it was enough for her to totally avoid the box altogether.
We then decided to put her normal litter back and she happily went in immediately. We pretended that we don't want anything from her, didn't follow her for a day until she was relaxed again. Then we creeped up behind her when she had a pee, lifted her tail and had her pee straight into the jar!
Just to stress my point how sensitive they are with their box and being watched etc.
Like Traci said, it is very important that you convey the feeling to Max that everything is okay, that he's not doing anything wrong. Only then he'll slowly relax again.