This is what I wrote in the very beginning of this thread: "he has been more thirsty and hungry lately, started about 6-8 weeks ago. We attributed it to the heat and boredom (I talked about it in another thread, that he's more whiney and always wants to eat). And I have once seen him peeing in the shower. He has not lost weight. (He weighs about 12-13 pounds.)"
Over the last week I have watched him closely and I don't feel he drinks excessively. When we tested him with the sticks, we saw him only once a day peeing! He probably went also when we were sleeping, but he certainly doesn't urinate often. But a couple of days ago he again attempted to pee in the shower (second time in a month I saw this).
No weight loss. No we have not weighed him recently. Last was maybe a year ago to determine the right amount of worm treatment and then he was 5 kilo - that is about 12 -13 pounds, if I'm not mistaken. He looks the same as then - strong, but not fat.
He does not sit near the water dish. No weakness. Lethargy - well, we are all lethargic, it's still very hot and humid here. He is not more lethargic than Noodle, and they have their rounds of wild play two or three times a day.
I have only once seen his urine - when we collected it two days ago - and it was yellow. I have never smelled his urine, I could do that.
Tommy has diabetes
Re: Tommy has diabetes
The urinating in the shower could be stress, but it could also be a urinary tract infection.
You should weigh him, this should be done every month, since you changed his diet (it is W/D, yes?)
If his appetite is continuing to increase on a daily basis, or if he is actually eating more and more, but doesn't seem satiated, then you still might have cause for concern (combined with increasing water intake). But, if you're feeding W/D, enough time has passed that he should be used to the diet and should be feeling full after a meal. It is the role of fiber in the W/D that helps the cat to feel satiated, full. Are you free-feeding him or scheduling and rationing his food portions?
You should weigh him, this should be done every month, since you changed his diet (it is W/D, yes?)
If his appetite is continuing to increase on a daily basis, or if he is actually eating more and more, but doesn't seem satiated, then you still might have cause for concern (combined with increasing water intake). But, if you're feeding W/D, enough time has passed that he should be used to the diet and should be feeling full after a meal. It is the role of fiber in the W/D that helps the cat to feel satiated, full. Are you free-feeding him or scheduling and rationing his food portions?
..........Traci
Would a urinary tract infection show in the urinalysis? It all looked normal. And would it show a higher WBC count? His was a bit on the low side two weeks ago.
With W/D you mean the Hill'd diet? She (vet) has not pursued that yet as she wanted to wait until a final diagnosis is made. Right now he gets Pro Pac low fat (50% less than normal food) Premium cat food.
From that food, we feed twice a day (6am and 6pm) a full amount (he's then satisfied, starts cleaning and sleeps or plays), and then twice a very small amount inbetween. Now he doesn't get any other treats anymore (eggs, bread, fish, milk etc), as he used to. Therefore I'm not quite sure if he's more hungry or if he's just missing the treats and therefore asks for more food. Because we stopped the treats I sometimes give him an extra half a hand full of his dry food.
Amongst all the diabetes concern, his elevated BUN got forgotten. Is 56mg/dl very high? My vet didn't seem too concerned, but advised a low protein diet, which is why we stopped all the protein bombs. She said the kidneys don't function fully anymore, and that this is irreversable. His albumin level was also slightly too high, 4g/dl. Should something else be done about this other than repeated testing? Are values other than glucose also affected by stress/anxiety while drawing blood?
With W/D you mean the Hill'd diet? She (vet) has not pursued that yet as she wanted to wait until a final diagnosis is made. Right now he gets Pro Pac low fat (50% less than normal food) Premium cat food.
From that food, we feed twice a day (6am and 6pm) a full amount (he's then satisfied, starts cleaning and sleeps or plays), and then twice a very small amount inbetween. Now he doesn't get any other treats anymore (eggs, bread, fish, milk etc), as he used to. Therefore I'm not quite sure if he's more hungry or if he's just missing the treats and therefore asks for more food. Because we stopped the treats I sometimes give him an extra half a hand full of his dry food.
Amongst all the diabetes concern, his elevated BUN got forgotten. Is 56mg/dl very high? My vet didn't seem too concerned, but advised a low protein diet, which is why we stopped all the protein bombs. She said the kidneys don't function fully anymore, and that this is irreversable. His albumin level was also slightly too high, 4g/dl. Should something else be done about this other than repeated testing? Are values other than glucose also affected by stress/anxiety while drawing blood?
Re: Tommy has diabetes
Assuming she used mg/dl units of measurement, and used feline reference ranges, then the BUN is out of normal range. But, this may not be conclusive for kidney disease. It may also have been because there was a high amount of protein, such as a high protein diet, or fed a high protein diet shortly before the blood test was done. It can also elevate due to dehydration, which at that time, seemed like he very well could have been, if he had been drinking more at the time.
When the BUN and creatinine are both significantly out of normal range (high), then you have cause to be concerned about renal impairment, and followup bloodwork/urinalysis should be done within a couple weeks of one another to monitor the enzmye levels. If they remain high or increase, then fluid therapy, diet, etc should be initiated to try to get the values dropped within normal range. (low protein diet, sub-q fluid therapy at home if the values are not significantly high, but IV fluids/hosptialization in severe renal crisis where the enzymes are critically high). If the urinalysis happens to indicate protein concentration or specific gravity alterations, in conjunction with elevated blood levels, then your vet would need to further investigate the need for treating and managing renal impairment.
The albumin probably isn't significant unless other enzymes are or remain elevated, mainly other kidney and liver enzymes. It too can elevate due to dehydration. If other enzyes like protein were high and consistently high on more than one test, then you'd want to look closer at the other kidney and liver values.
So, don't rely specifically on the regent strips you're using to check urine. A new blood profile plus urinalysis should be done to detect changes that may or may not be significant to proceed further.
Generally, the WBC will elevate when there is an infection, so it may not be a concern, but with a new urinalysis, you'll know for certain.
The ALT, which is a liver enzyme, commonly elevates due to stress during a blood draw. If the elevation is combined with other enzyme elevations, then it warrants monitoring and checking for liver disease, etc. If it is elevated slightly on it's own, it is generally not worrisome, but any cat suspected with a primary disease factor (or an older cat) should have it monitored.
When the BUN and creatinine are both significantly out of normal range (high), then you have cause to be concerned about renal impairment, and followup bloodwork/urinalysis should be done within a couple weeks of one another to monitor the enzmye levels. If they remain high or increase, then fluid therapy, diet, etc should be initiated to try to get the values dropped within normal range. (low protein diet, sub-q fluid therapy at home if the values are not significantly high, but IV fluids/hosptialization in severe renal crisis where the enzymes are critically high). If the urinalysis happens to indicate protein concentration or specific gravity alterations, in conjunction with elevated blood levels, then your vet would need to further investigate the need for treating and managing renal impairment.
The albumin probably isn't significant unless other enzymes are or remain elevated, mainly other kidney and liver enzymes. It too can elevate due to dehydration. If other enzyes like protein were high and consistently high on more than one test, then you'd want to look closer at the other kidney and liver values.
So, don't rely specifically on the regent strips you're using to check urine. A new blood profile plus urinalysis should be done to detect changes that may or may not be significant to proceed further.
Generally, the WBC will elevate when there is an infection, so it may not be a concern, but with a new urinalysis, you'll know for certain.
The ALT, which is a liver enzyme, commonly elevates due to stress during a blood draw. If the elevation is combined with other enzyme elevations, then it warrants monitoring and checking for liver disease, etc. If it is elevated slightly on it's own, it is generally not worrisome, but any cat suspected with a primary disease factor (or an older cat) should have it monitored.
..........Traci
He did not have a high protein meal before the blood draw.
All values, including specific gravity, in the urinalysis are normal, compared to the values you have here on your site.
The ALT is also normal.
We will certainly do follow up blood tests and urinalysis to monitor the kidneys. How often - after a month?
As to the diabetis question - I will think about what to do for a couple of days. Right now I'm inclined to buy a glucometer, just to have a confirmation one way or the other. Stress won't be a factor with this method. But if it also indicated high glucose levels, then I would proceed with the successive blood tests, as you recommended.
Indications are that he isn't diabetic - but I'm not sure. He still could be. To have certainty one way or the other would be less stressful for me. Right now I'm constantly watching what he does.
Just found a kilo/pound converter: 5 kilo = 11 pounds. We will get some scales though to monitor his weight.
All values, including specific gravity, in the urinalysis are normal, compared to the values you have here on your site.
The ALT is also normal.
We will certainly do follow up blood tests and urinalysis to monitor the kidneys. How often - after a month?
As to the diabetis question - I will think about what to do for a couple of days. Right now I'm inclined to buy a glucometer, just to have a confirmation one way or the other. Stress won't be a factor with this method. But if it also indicated high glucose levels, then I would proceed with the successive blood tests, as you recommended.
Indications are that he isn't diabetic - but I'm not sure. He still could be. To have certainty one way or the other would be less stressful for me. Right now I'm constantly watching what he does.
Just found a kilo/pound converter: 5 kilo = 11 pounds. We will get some scales though to monitor his weight.
Re: Tommy has diabetes
So, I called my vet yesterday and told her about Stress Hypoglucaemia. She admitted that she had not known that and was very interested to read the article. I sent her all the links you, Traci, had provided. I like that about her - she's not too proud to admit it when she doesn't know something.
So, when I explained that to her she immediately came to the same conclusion I had, that with him having no symptoms and the urine being clear, he is probably not diabetic. We agreed that I will monitor his urine and weight and will watch out for typical symptoms. We will also do regular blood tests to monitor his BUN, and we'll keep him on the low fat food.
You won't believe how hard it is here to get a simple scale! Apparently there is no retail market for it and you only get them in wholesale.
Traci, I want to thank you once more for all the patience, explanations and info you gave me! I don't dare to imagine what we would have done without your advice and what could have happened to Tommy! *shiver* Thank you so much! I very much appreciate what you're doing here.
I will update this thread should I watch anything suspicious regarding Tommy.
So, when I explained that to her she immediately came to the same conclusion I had, that with him having no symptoms and the urine being clear, he is probably not diabetic. We agreed that I will monitor his urine and weight and will watch out for typical symptoms. We will also do regular blood tests to monitor his BUN, and we'll keep him on the low fat food.
You won't believe how hard it is here to get a simple scale! Apparently there is no retail market for it and you only get them in wholesale.
Traci, I want to thank you once more for all the patience, explanations and info you gave me! I don't dare to imagine what we would have done without your advice and what could have happened to Tommy! *shiver* Thank you so much! I very much appreciate what you're doing here.
I will update this thread should I watch anything suspicious regarding Tommy.