As I have mentioned in 2 or 3 previous posts here, we do have a new cat in the household now. He stays in a cage in the kitchen and my cats all simply hiss at him. Well one day I took him out to clean some littler he had spileld and my oldest cat Mollie came in looking for food and the new cat, Kip, dashed at him and grabbed him in a headlock and began clawing and biting Mollie severely. Thankfully Mollie suffered no punctures or skin abrasions, but Kip still attacked him. I worry because Mollie has no claws, and now he will have 3 cats with claws ganging up on him.
I don't know if Kip will react the same way to my younger cats, Caspurr and Rolly, but I don't worry because they have claws. Mollie does not try in any way to defend himself and figures he can run, but because of his age he has lost speed and usually gets tackled.
For the sake of Mollie's safety, should Kip be de-clawed?
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LinZ - has a cat that thinks he owns the place O.o
De-clawing new cat?
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LinZ
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De-clawing new cat?
"There's three ways to a man's heart - through his stomach, through his crotch, and through his rib cage." - Squeak
Re: De-clawing new cat?
i would give a little more time and then if there still isa a danger then go for declawing...i know this will produce lots of pros and cons but i have never seen an adverse response to any that i declawed except one or two limped a little longer...but you be the judge is you think your other cats are in trouble...scratched eyeballs a skin punctures can be a problem....
Hi again Linz-
This is just my opinion, but I would strongly discourage you from declawing Kip (to put it bluntly, I am very anti-declawing). I'm not sure if you are aware what is involved in the procedure, but when cats are declawed, all of the toes are amputated up to the first knuckle! Can you imagine how incredibly painful that must be? And then having to walk around on (ie, put your full body weight on) and dig in the litter box with 10 amputated toes?
Now there is a lot of hype about laser declawing - that there is much less pain and all. With a laser declaw there may be less blood and all, but it is STILL 10 amputations. It is considered so cruel that it is not done at all in European countries, and many states are working at making it illegal here.
Yes, most cats do make a full recovery and have no lasting effects, but some don't. Since you can never know before the procedure how the cat will be after the procedure, it just doesn't seem worth the risk, nor fair to put the cat through so much pain. And if Kip is an older kitty, the recovery time will be much longer and the pain much greater.
We have one declawed cat - Trixie, the one we're trying to integrate. She used to belong to our next door neighbors (long story how she came to be with us), and they said they "HAD" to declaw her because of the kids. I really don't talk to the neighbors because of the situation of how Trixie came ot us so I don't know the details of her recovery, but I can say that at this point she rarely puts her right front paw down on the floor; it's never down when she is sitting and rarely down when she is standing. She runs around fine, but often will stop playing just to hold her paw up. I can only assume she has residual pain from beind declawed. I also have a friend whose cat never recovered from her declaw surgery; 13+ years later she still has obvious pain and associated issues. Just not worth it.
There are alternatives to declawing. SoftPaws nail caps for one, and keeping Kip's nails trimmed for another. Both can be challenging to accomplish at first, but if you need help on either one I'm sure your vet will be happy to instruct you. If furniture scratching becomes an issue, there are many ways to teach a cat how to appropriately scratch where he is supposed to. Well placed scratching pads and posts all around the house (not just in one room), as well as a variety of scratching surfaces (corregated cardboard, sisal, carpeted kitty condos) all encourage good scratching behavior.
I completely understand that you are concerned about your other cats being injured by Kip since he is so fiesty. But I do think that if you continue to work with getting him slowly integrated into the crowd along with keeping his nails either trimmed or covered with SoftPaws, everything will be fine and he'll get to keep is little toes intact. Yes, you'll have the occasional scuffle that may result in a scratch, but once he settles in and finds his ranking amongst the others, I would doubt that any of those scuffles would be so severe that serious injury would result.
BTW - in the future if you find you'd prefer to share your home with declawed cats, there are many already-declawed cats available for adoption through animal shelters! These are loving, healthy kitties that need homes; by adopting one of them, they'd get a new chance at life AND it would save another kitty from being declawed.
Sorry for being so long-winded....this happens to be a topic I am VERY passionate about.
~Amy
This is just my opinion, but I would strongly discourage you from declawing Kip (to put it bluntly, I am very anti-declawing). I'm not sure if you are aware what is involved in the procedure, but when cats are declawed, all of the toes are amputated up to the first knuckle! Can you imagine how incredibly painful that must be? And then having to walk around on (ie, put your full body weight on) and dig in the litter box with 10 amputated toes?
Now there is a lot of hype about laser declawing - that there is much less pain and all. With a laser declaw there may be less blood and all, but it is STILL 10 amputations. It is considered so cruel that it is not done at all in European countries, and many states are working at making it illegal here.
Yes, most cats do make a full recovery and have no lasting effects, but some don't. Since you can never know before the procedure how the cat will be after the procedure, it just doesn't seem worth the risk, nor fair to put the cat through so much pain. And if Kip is an older kitty, the recovery time will be much longer and the pain much greater.
We have one declawed cat - Trixie, the one we're trying to integrate. She used to belong to our next door neighbors (long story how she came to be with us), and they said they "HAD" to declaw her because of the kids. I really don't talk to the neighbors because of the situation of how Trixie came ot us so I don't know the details of her recovery, but I can say that at this point she rarely puts her right front paw down on the floor; it's never down when she is sitting and rarely down when she is standing. She runs around fine, but often will stop playing just to hold her paw up. I can only assume she has residual pain from beind declawed. I also have a friend whose cat never recovered from her declaw surgery; 13+ years later she still has obvious pain and associated issues. Just not worth it.
There are alternatives to declawing. SoftPaws nail caps for one, and keeping Kip's nails trimmed for another. Both can be challenging to accomplish at first, but if you need help on either one I'm sure your vet will be happy to instruct you. If furniture scratching becomes an issue, there are many ways to teach a cat how to appropriately scratch where he is supposed to. Well placed scratching pads and posts all around the house (not just in one room), as well as a variety of scratching surfaces (corregated cardboard, sisal, carpeted kitty condos) all encourage good scratching behavior.
I completely understand that you are concerned about your other cats being injured by Kip since he is so fiesty. But I do think that if you continue to work with getting him slowly integrated into the crowd along with keeping his nails either trimmed or covered with SoftPaws, everything will be fine and he'll get to keep is little toes intact. Yes, you'll have the occasional scuffle that may result in a scratch, but once he settles in and finds his ranking amongst the others, I would doubt that any of those scuffles would be so severe that serious injury would result.
BTW - in the future if you find you'd prefer to share your home with declawed cats, there are many already-declawed cats available for adoption through animal shelters! These are loving, healthy kitties that need homes; by adopting one of them, they'd get a new chance at life AND it would save another kitty from being declawed.
Sorry for being so long-winded....this happens to be a topic I am VERY passionate about.
~Amy
Re: De-clawing new cat?
Amy, see the House Rules. Strong heated debates on this subject are prohibited.
..........Traci
I'm sorry, I wasn't trying to start a heated debate; I was only trying to share some facts about, and my thoughts on the subject. I thought LinZ should know what is involved with the declaw procedure before making her decision, as well as letting her know there are other options out there that may work for her situation.
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LinZ
- Posts: 118
- Joined: Sat May 22, 2004 12:50 am
- Location: Behind that deformed sprinkle on your ice cream cone
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Re: De-clawing new cat?
Amy, are you sure that part of the cat's paws are actually amputated? I have always believed de-clawing was done by pulling the claws completely out of their sheaths. If a cat had its "fingers" amputated, would that mean they would lack those little toe pads? My cat, Mollie, was de-clawed many years ago, and his paws look as normal as the next cat.
I have been trying to slowly introduce the cats to each other, and I have debated over tying bags on Kip's feet
, but I think that might be pushing it. I did set down food on a plate next to Kip's cage, and my Caspurr approached and nibbled at it, but then she grabbed the dish with her claws and dragged it farther from the cage.
................................
Can I buy cat booties or socks or something similar to put over Kip's feet?
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LinZ - reaching for straws
I have been trying to slowly introduce the cats to each other, and I have debated over tying bags on Kip's feet
, but I think that might be pushing it. I did set down food on a plate next to Kip's cage, and my Caspurr approached and nibbled at it, but then she grabbed the dish with her claws and dragged it farther from the cage.................................
Can I buy cat booties or socks or something similar to put over Kip's feet?
..................
LinZ - reaching for straws
"There's three ways to a man's heart - through his stomach, through his crotch, and through his rib cage." - Squeak
Hi LinZ-
Yes, the toe is actually amputed up to the first joint in the declaw procedure. However, this is not far enough up the toe to include the toe pad. The best comparison in human terms is cutting off the finger or toe to the first knuckle; the digit is basically intact but the part where the nail grew from is gone. Since kitty toes are furry, visually it doesn't really look as if the toes are any different in a declawed cat, although I can say that with Trixie's toes the almost look uneven in length, if you know what I mean. If you do a general "Yahoo" or "Google" search on declawing you will find many sites that describe the actual process involved.
There are no little "kitty booties" that I know of (and am thinking most kitties would not be pleased at all about having booties on!), but there are SoftPaws nail caps. These are little vinyl caps that completely cover the cats' nails; they are attached with a glue similar to that used to attach fake fingernails on humans. They eventually come off as the nail grows, and are not harmful if ingested. Personally I have never used them, but I've heard of others having great success with them. Of course there are kitties who couldn't stand them at all, too, but from what I've heard the success stories outweigh the failures. This is another one of those things that you won't know if Kip will mind them unless you give them a shot. Here is a link to the SoftPaws website, which describes their product:
http://www.softpaws.com/
We're having our own brand of fun getting Trixie integrated into our crowd. She's pretty fiesty, but it sounds like Kip may be more of a handful than she is! When you put the food dish near Kip's cage, did you put it there in one fell swoop, or did you slowly move it closer and closer with each feeding? If you didn't inch it closer and closer, give that a shot. Try to find the closest your other kitties feel the most comfortable with and let them eat there for a day or so. Then, move the dish a little closer to the cage and let them eat from this new point for a day or so. Continue this process and you should eventually be able to get them eating right next to eachother with Kip in the cage and the other kitties outside the cage.
As I'm sure you know, intrudicing kitties takes time - some much more time than others! And each experience is different. For us this time is so different than our last time was; last time we introduced 3 10 week old kittens to our 8 year old; he was not happy at all and was very stressed - just wanted to get away from them, but at the same time he never got aggessive (and of course the kittens just wanted to play). It took him 6 full months to accept them. Now trying to introduce Trixie, she has actually been aggressive (in the form of fear agression - attacking when scared or startled) which we had never experiened before, but since we started using the crate for her introductions, that aggression has melted away to playfulnes, cuddley-ness, and - although a little quirky - fairly calmness (a few tails here and there, but no outward aggression).
I'm sure you guys will do fine - all it takes is dedication...sometimes a lot of it, but I think with a lot of heart and a lot of work even the toughest of kitties can learn to be one of the crowd.
~Amy
Yes, the toe is actually amputed up to the first joint in the declaw procedure. However, this is not far enough up the toe to include the toe pad. The best comparison in human terms is cutting off the finger or toe to the first knuckle; the digit is basically intact but the part where the nail grew from is gone. Since kitty toes are furry, visually it doesn't really look as if the toes are any different in a declawed cat, although I can say that with Trixie's toes the almost look uneven in length, if you know what I mean. If you do a general "Yahoo" or "Google" search on declawing you will find many sites that describe the actual process involved.
There are no little "kitty booties" that I know of (and am thinking most kitties would not be pleased at all about having booties on
!), but there are SoftPaws nail caps. These are little vinyl caps that completely cover the cats' nails; they are attached with a glue similar to that used to attach fake fingernails on humans. They eventually come off as the nail grows, and are not harmful if ingested. Personally I have never used them, but I've heard of others having great success with them. Of course there are kitties who couldn't stand them at all, too, but from what I've heard the success stories outweigh the failures. This is another one of those things that you won't know if Kip will mind them unless you give them a shot. Here is a link to the SoftPaws website, which describes their product:http://www.softpaws.com/
We're having our own brand of fun getting Trixie integrated into our crowd. She's pretty fiesty, but it sounds like Kip may be more of a handful than she is! When you put the food dish near Kip's cage, did you put it there in one fell swoop, or did you slowly move it closer and closer with each feeding? If you didn't inch it closer and closer, give that a shot. Try to find the closest your other kitties feel the most comfortable with and let them eat there for a day or so. Then, move the dish a little closer to the cage and let them eat from this new point for a day or so. Continue this process and you should eventually be able to get them eating right next to eachother with Kip in the cage and the other kitties outside the cage.
As I'm sure you know, intrudicing kitties takes time - some much more time than others! And each experience is different. For us this time is so different than our last time was; last time we introduced 3 10 week old kittens to our 8 year old; he was not happy at all and was very stressed - just wanted to get away from them, but at the same time he never got aggessive (and of course the kittens just wanted to play). It took him 6 full months to accept them. Now trying to introduce Trixie, she has actually been aggressive (in the form of fear agression - attacking when scared or startled) which we had never experiened before, but since we started using the crate for her introductions, that aggression has melted away to playfulnes, cuddley-ness, and - although a little quirky - fairly calmness (a few tails here and there, but no outward aggression).
I'm sure you guys will do fine - all it takes is dedication...sometimes a lot of it, but I think with a lot of heart and a lot of work even the toughest of kitties can learn to be one of the crowd.
~Amy