My vet had offered Deramax to me when Copper had some teeth pulled. Being susupicious of new drugs, I opted for codeine instead for a couple days. It's something I've had many times myself for dental pain and am very familiar with. Now after reading some of the discussions on this and other boards, I'm glad I made that choice.
A link on cyberdobies shows 108 adverse effect cases, but this is out of how many total dogs getting this drug? If it's out of 300, that's major. If it's out of 300 million, it's negligable. (link is at: http://www.cyberdobes.com/PDF/Deramaxx.pdf ).
But it seems all the NSAID drugs are risky in dogs, from asprin to rimadyl to deramax to bute. They're risky for humans too for many of the same reasons: GI problems, live, etc, but it doesn't seem I hear as much about the human problems with similiar drugs. I heard of many people who've lost dogs to these drugs, but of not one human who's died from an NSAID reaction, not even a friend of a friend kind of thing. Granted, my observations are skewed since I read more about canine health than human health.
But are there other reasons for this discrepancy between damage caused to dogs vs damage caused to humans? Is it because the study samples are broader in humans? Or are dogs more sensitive to NSAID drug reactions than humans? This last question is what I'm most curious about.
NSAIDS? dogs vs humans....
me thinks you worry too much...of course there can be
adverse effect from anything going into the body but as long as over dowsage is not doen , aspirin, nasids (whoops nsaids) eetc.etc are not over used they are allright...truthfully i never Rx codein for anything in any animals...just cause4 you got good results in yourself does not mean it can be similar in animals...people can take morphine but you give it to a cat and it will walk across the ceiling like it was on the floor--although i have used it in low doses with no problem...i would not extrapolate from yourself to your dog.
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LM
well....
I realize all bets are usually off with cats, LOL.
Believe me, I didn't do something stupid like give him my own prescription. Codeine was one of the choices for pain meds the vet offered me, along with Deramax and something else I don't remember, but it was probably rimadyl. He felt it safe for Copper in the small dose he prescribed and it worked well for the very short time he got it (day and a half after the surgery, 3 doses). There's NO way I'd have given it without vet supervison, I've never given any drug to my dogs, even stuff like glucosamine, without talking to him first. (BTW, he's a conventional type of vet, much like yourself).
But I really do have the tendency to try to extrapolate from humans to dogs, as well as from horses to dogs. If it's good for me, chances are fairly high it's good for my animals. Because I know this isn't always true, I try to find where the differences are. That's why I'm asking about NSAIDS in the first place.
Believe me, I didn't do something stupid like give him my own prescription. Codeine was one of the choices for pain meds the vet offered me, along with Deramax and something else I don't remember, but it was probably rimadyl. He felt it safe for Copper in the small dose he prescribed and it worked well for the very short time he got it (day and a half after the surgery, 3 doses). There's NO way I'd have given it without vet supervison, I've never given any drug to my dogs, even stuff like glucosamine, without talking to him first. (BTW, he's a conventional type of vet, much like yourself).
But I really do have the tendency to try to extrapolate from humans to dogs, as well as from horses to dogs. If it's good for me, chances are fairly high it's good for my animals. Because I know this isn't always true, I try to find where the differences are. That's why I'm asking about NSAIDS in the first place.
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LM
BTW
I get to worry as much as I want to about my critters. I think I earned my paranoia fair and square, ROTFL.
<img src="http://www.wonderpuppy.net/hikeL1.jpg">
<img src="http://www.wonderpuppy.net/hikeL1.jpg">
that is with out a doubt the darndest expression i
have seen on a dog, would love to know what goes through their minds when they get quizical like that
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LM
Nah...
That's just a happy grin.
THIS is quizzical....
<img src="http://www.wonderpuppy.net/misc2/huh.jpg">
THIS is quizzical....
<img src="http://www.wonderpuppy.net/misc2/huh.jpg">
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TheSkeptic
- Posts: 1703
- Joined: Fri Apr 25, 2003 8:56 am
- Location: LaPlace LA
Some stuff from the studies I've read
From what I have read, between 10 and 15% of the dogs recieving NSAIDS have some type of reaction. The reaction is deadly in about 5% of those that have a reaction.
Of those cases you read on the Dobie board, you have to realize that very few were actually confirmed to be from the medication. Few of the people claiming that the drug killed eheir dogs had a necroscopy done on them.
Remember these are all old dogs and many had problems before recieving the drug. I am not saying that the drug did not harm all of those dogs, only that the proof is not there. They are making the classic post hoc logic error.
I Gave my dog X.
My dog died.
X killed my dog.
In actuallity there may be any number of other factors that caused the death of their beloved pet, though they have thoroughly convinced themselves that X did their dog in.
Just a warning to be leery of the horror story testimonials.
Of those cases you read on the Dobie board, you have to realize that very few were actually confirmed to be from the medication. Few of the people claiming that the drug killed eheir dogs had a necroscopy done on them.
Remember these are all old dogs and many had problems before recieving the drug. I am not saying that the drug did not harm all of those dogs, only that the proof is not there. They are making the classic post hoc logic error.
I Gave my dog X.
My dog died.
X killed my dog.
In actuallity there may be any number of other factors that caused the death of their beloved pet, though they have thoroughly convinced themselves that X did their dog in.
Just a warning to be leery of the horror story testimonials.
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LM
Thanks...
Skeptic, your 10-15% estimate is very interesting, that kind of general stat is very useful for me. Chickendog is starting to show his age and his existing back problems are affecting him more. I think it will probably only be a matter of time before he may need drugs like these. I am trying to take what I read with a grain of salt, but it's not always easy, I don't always find the discreps. Thanks.
Davet, that's a huge percentage of humans with GI problems from NSAIDS! OTC use in humans is recommended for only 2 weeks though, so I would imagine that would be way safer. I do wish they'd checked for liver damage too, that might have been interesting.
My question still isn't answered, but both of you have definitely shed more light on the matter for me. Thanks.
Davet, that's a huge percentage of humans with GI problems from NSAIDS! OTC use in humans is recommended for only 2 weeks though, so I would imagine that would be way safer. I do wish they'd checked for liver damage too, that might have been interesting.
My question still isn't answered, but both of you have definitely shed more light on the matter for me. Thanks.