i can see how it could be done...a persone would

[davet]

have to know very little of anatomyonce the got into the abdomin..if a person saw a large structure with movement inside like kicking feet or moving heads...it would not take a rocket scientist to assume thqt they were puppys...and you cut in and pop them out,..the uterus would be so huge compared to other organs that athere would be noother option....i don't knoe cause i wasn;t there and cant say yes or know but i can picture it happeing and have know knowledge of the pre conditions or the cause of death or know if the dog was ever seen by a vet or not, or maybe panic set in...but it did happen with a cow when i was in vet school....the cow died we thought of of eclampsi or mile fever or what ever and the farm butcher knifed in a nd pulled the calf...the calf did die about one hour later so whose to know

[davet]

this should have gone under :inbteresting article"--don't know what i did to put it in a new message....

[Traci]

Sure, but being the EMT she was (or claimed to be), she knew that in her own profession, it wasn't up to her or within her means to attempt to do so. She knew what was the most ethical thing to do, and she knew a veterinarian would be the most qualified to handle the situation. The time she spent on the phone with her husband, the time it took to gather supplies and give instructions to her daughter-in-law, and any other timing/events that took place could have just as well been taken care of at an ER vet, and she darn well knew it. She could have killed those puppies with an non-adept hand, a wrong turn of the blade, if hemorrhage were concerning, (gosh the potentials are endless here), etc, she would have been up a creek without a paddle...why take that risk in the first place without the aid of a qualified veterinarian?

Granted, most of us have the driven instinct to save life, and some circumstances may in fact warrant the attempt, but the timing and sequence of events (at least as reported in the story), leave much to be desired, she knew the appropriate action to take, but she put matters into her own hands and took a great risk.

I would sure hope to never have to suffer a condition that brought this EMT into my situation, god only knows what she might do without the aid of professionalism, ethics, permission etc.

Well, that's my opinion.

[Marty]

Yeah.....and if the dog was dead, it's not like she would have to be careful of the other organs. It just angers me that the husband was on the phone to her instead of rushing her to a Vet! Now a question......I don't know anything about eclampsia....does it always cause death....or could she have been saved?

I have seen enough on Animal Planet to be glad mine are spayed, and realize I don't know enough to breed safely.

[Marty]

Oops, sorry Traci.....your post was not there when I wrote that.

[Traci]

Eclampsia is a treatable condition, providing it is not left undetected, and it is treated at the immediate onset of symptoms. My guess is it wasn't eclampsia at all, but rather something else, which I would think should have been reported in the story, not to mention a vet's comments.

I suspose the husband could have been clueless when he phoned his wife, but "her first instinct was to perform a c-section"....is bull, her first instinct should have been to get the dog to the nearest veterinary emergency facility, because god only knows when the time of death actually occured, had it only been within minutes, cpr and other emergency procedures may have been attempted. She didn't do that, she found no heartbeat so she assumed she could perform a c-section and not have any associated risks for the puppies.

Absolutely absurd and the entire situation (if true) makes my blood boil. Sounds like a case of martyrism, albeit sickening. I would just love to know if the dog had a necropsy done by a vet (or perhaps the EMT performed that as well), and/or if a vet examined the pups, determined cause of death on the mother.

[Marty]

I agree with you, Traci.........the whole thing just seems out of proportion...but if one person learns something from this discussion..it will be worth it and save lives!

a PLUG FOR SPAY AND NEUTER.....it DOES make a difference!

[davet]

every one seems to be asuming that these people are the normal caring pet owner...they may be a bunch of creeps, probably should not have a dog, are in the 10th sentyery etc etc....but i have known clients like this who wait till the dog or cat has been sick for two months and call me up at 2 or 3 AM and tell me the dog died and want to know why.,..not every one is the typical normal caring pet owner and i have seen lots who are not...have seemn so many come in when the unvaccinated, uncared for dog and want to put it to sleep cause it is getting to be a nusance...i wouldn't ever do it but i am sure someone would do it......end of my part of this discussion