phenylpropanolamine for incontinence

[hopeneedshelp]

My mom's shepherd has been diagnosed with incontinence because of her being spayed. She was wetting her bed and panting heavily before the meds, now she is still panting heavily, bleeding a bit, and is acting sedated, which is frightening to my mother. She has seen 3 vets, all of whom agree with each other. My mom does not like having her on this med because of the effects that it had on humans and also because of how her dog is acting. Does anyone have any info or experience with this problem and med? Can anyone recommend a natural remedy or even another med that is safer? Thanks!

[davet]

i assume they have suggest PPA for this but i gave up using it and went to the DES (diethylstilbesteraol) and have had dog s on it for yewars with nary a problem. I know in humans it has a bed rep which is justified b ut in dogs there is no correlation..have had many a dog on as low dosage as i tab a week...it is far better than the ppa which has to be given two to three tiems daily...don;t know if the three vest have suggested the DES but it is a far better medication....and on such a low dose as needed there are no problems....forget the rep with humans...

[hopeneedshelp]

Thanks for your reply. The vet did have her dog on DES but she was still urinating so they took her off. I'm not sure how long she was on it but I'm wondering, does it have to be taken several times for it to start working? Maybe they should give it another try? Thanks!

[davet]

i would give the DES another try at a higher dose and if no change then i would suspect it is not spay urinary incompenance.....

[hopeneedshelp]

Hi again. She was on DES, 1mg for 3 days then 1mg 2xs a week, it didn't work, vet didn't want her to go to a higher dose and switched to PPA. Mom got off the phone just now with the vet, they said if the PPA doesn't work there really isn't anything more that can be done. She had blood work done and xrays to see if it was another problem besides incontinence and everything came back ok. They didn't do any invasive testing to see if it was for sure incontinence from spay but they decided it that was after a process of elimination. We are wondering now, could this be stress related? Since the meds aren't working we thought stress may be the cause. Any ideas? Thanks again.

[davet]

this is just stricly my opinon but if this is a shepard over say 50 pounds, i think i would gofor a higher dose for maybe just two weeks to see the effect...if no change then there is another problem...but two weeks is not going to hurt anything, but again an opinion only

[Doglady]

My mom's shepherd has been diagnosed with incontinence because of her being spayed. quote]

I had two girls, one of which became incontinent of urine at age two (according the former owner. I got her at age 4 1/2. She was a Coon/Grey mix. My other girl was a GSD/Dobe mix and suddenly became urine incontinent at 14. Initially, they were put on PPA. The first day I gave it to them, Jezebel (the Coon/Grey) acted very weird, lay down and wouldn't move, then threw up. Jingles, the GSD/Dobe had a "panic attack," and was panting and pacing for several hours. I told my vet, and he said to cut the dose in half. Same thing happened, so I took them off of it, and we then gave DES.

From reading your posts about the DES, it seems to me it was not given long enough. I had to "load" both girls for at least one week by giving daily (could have been more..it's been awhile.) Then I was to skip one day for a week, then skip two days, and if no leaking was present to try one every 3 days, which ultimately worked.

At one point, my vet ran out of DES, and the order got screwed up, so my girls had nothing for a few weeks. For some reason, neither of them had a problem with leaking or peeing. So, I never gave it again. I don't know why this happened, (Jezebel had this problem 2 1/2 years before I adopted her...Jingles' was sudden) unless it turned something "right" with them.

However, the GSD/Dobe had another problem. I later found out that she had GSD degenerative myelopathy, thought to be something else, which could have been the reason why she suddenly dumped her entire bladder in my bed one night Ugh! This was the first time she had ever peed in the house, and spayed female incontinency was thought to be the cause of that issue. In her case, I think it was the DM.

You didn't mention the age of this GSD girl, but DM usually strikes between the ages of 4 and 14..my girl showed symptoms prior to her 14th Birthday. I was very suspicious of DM when noticing certain things. My vet did not think it was DM, but I felt it was and pursued it further.

It would be a good idea to visit the following site regarding GSD DM. Every owner of a GSD should be aware of this disease, which is often missed or misdiagnosed. I'm not saying this is the cause of the urine incontinency, but being aware of DM is a must for GSD owners IMO.

http://neuro.vetmed.ufl.edu/neuro/DM_Web/DMofGS.htm

[hopeneedshelp]

Wow, well thanks so much for the replies. She is back on DES now, still having some leaks and panting, also seems to be down in the dumps, not herself. Sorry I forgot to mention her age, she's 9 now. I just scanned the website you gave me for DM and will read through it with my mom tomorrow when she comes over. I did however see that the spinal cord was mentioned a lot....he vet did some xrays and did find her to have arthritis in her spine, I'm wondering if that could be something to do with her having DM, or perhaps the arthritis is causing her to have incontinence. So many things to think about really. I thank you all for your help, this has really been a great help.

[Doglady]

Wow, well thanks so much for the replies. She is back on DES now, still having some leaks and panting, also seems to be down in the dumps, not herself. Sorry I forgot to mention her age, she's 9 now. I just scanned the website you gave me for DM and will read through it with my mom tomorrow when she comes over. I did however see that the spinal cord was mentioned a lot....he vet did some xrays and did find her to have arthritis in her spine, I'm wondering if that could be something to do with her having DM, or perhaps the arthritis is causing her to have incontinence. So many things to think about really. I thank you all for your help, this has really been a great help.

DM is the same thing as MS in humans, and no pain associated with it, and it is a disease that attacks the myelin sheathing of the spinal cord. The first thing I noticed with Jingles was her beginning to drag her right rear leg, and would hear a "scraping" on pavement from time to time. Then I began to notice her toes curl under from time to time. Later on it progressed to muscle weakness and a lot of muscle wasting, as you will read about on Dr. Clemmons' site. If DM is a possibility, then your best bet is a referral to a veterinary neurologist, as there is specific testing for DM.

I wonder about the panting, and being seemingly depressed. Do you have a teaching veterinary hospital within reasonable driving distance? If you do, that's where I would go, to get some answers. They have all the latest technology, equipment and people well-versed in the various specialties.

[hopeneedshelp]

Thanks again! I'm not sure if there is a teaching vet hospital nearby where my mom lives. She is in the Outer Banks of North Carolina (she was just here visiting me in Florida). I will do some research to see if I can find one close to where she is but basically she is in the middle of nowhere. She would drive a great distance for her dog though! Her dog isn't dragging her feet but today while she was in my yard we did notice a slight tightness or limp in her right hind leg. My mom will bring the DM to her current vets attention and see what he suggests. It's sad and also confusing as we really aren't 100% sure that it's just incontinence due to spay. Your posts have been very educational and I thank you so much!