We switched the food to something easier on the intestines. My suggestion. She wants to do endoscopy, colonoscopy etc. Since T.W. is 16½ I am not anxious to put him under general anesthesia. It got a little better but not much. Now she put him on Metronidazol. Since one of the side effects is diarrhea, how is it going to cure diarrhea? I asked her to put him on Pred. He was on it in the past. She said that is for IBD. (The day before she told me he has underlying IBD). She would need a test wouldn't she, to form that conclusion? She also wants to run the thyroid test again. His is normal but she claims that it is a grey area for cats 13 and older. My question is that if this is thyroid related, he has had it undiagnosed by his last vet for so long, he wouldn't be here anymore would he? The thyroid can't go untreated for so long if there is truly a problem?
Ivy is going to see a cardiologist. Our new vet isn't concerned about her heart though. We first saw this new vet a few weeks ago. You have told me to find someone else. I wanted to but have been so sick myself. I drag myself out of bed to get to these appts. I needed blood work done etc. They diagnosed Ivy with anemia, CRF and heart murmur. They were only concerned with the CRF. I have to tell them everything to do. That is horrible. I got them to see that if her heart goes, there won't be anything else to treat. The specialist, who runs the ER has a complaint against him that is coming up before the vet bd. in March. See what I mean about there are no good vets here! On the list at the Jan. meeting I saw the names of SIX of the quacks I have first hand knowledge about.
I will get the tests and hope nothing invasive has to be done.
Teddy (Giardia) and Ivy
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leslks@aol.com
- Posts: 72
- Joined: Thu Oct 16, 2003 9:59 am
Re: Teddy (Giardia) and Ivy
Ivy has also been diabetic five years. The only thing this vet cares about is the CRF. I am still testing her at home and keeping a watch on the diabetes. I don't see how any vet can say that you forget everything else for one disease.
While Ivy was getting the blood pressure they cut her paw. Later that evening while I was giving her her pill, my finger got cut. I discovered her tooth was broken. They admit to the paw but not the tooth. Traci is it possible that when they cut her she either tried to bite them and smacked her canine into the clipper OR they pulled away from her bite and she got hit? Seems like the only logical story of what happened. They are saying she got hurt in her carrier. She doesn't use one. Oh, then she got hurt in the car. Seems like they should just tell the truth. I am done with them because they can't be trusted in addition to being lousy vets.
While Ivy was getting the blood pressure they cut her paw. Later that evening while I was giving her her pill, my finger got cut. I discovered her tooth was broken. They admit to the paw but not the tooth. Traci is it possible that when they cut her she either tried to bite them and smacked her canine into the clipper OR they pulled away from her bite and she got hit? Seems like the only logical story of what happened. They are saying she got hurt in her carrier. She doesn't use one. Oh, then she got hurt in the car. Seems like they should just tell the truth. I am done with them because they can't be trusted in addition to being lousy vets.
Lynda
Re: Teddy (Giardia) and Ivy
Re: T.W.......Metronidazole is the recommended treatment for Giardia (despite your vet's inconclusive fecals), but it is also recommended for other parasitic infection as well as bacterial overgrowth, which your vet might suspect. If after 7 days and the metronidazole has not proved favorable results (decrease in diarrhea), then it's time to recheck the fecal, possibly opt for a culture to rule out other forms of bacteria that cannot otherwise be detected upon a fecal alone.
Your vet may be wanting to perform an endoscopy and/or colonoscopy because she can't find any other underlying cause to the inflammation/persistent diarrhea....this would be the appropriate diagnosic in the absense of other confirmed diagnosis, especially if she needed to confirm IBD in order to treat effectively, or to rule out something like intestinal neoplasia.
However, due to T.W.'s age, I wouldn't recommend the endoscopy or colonoscopy until or unless all diagnostics and treatment approaches fail completely. Give the new diet a try and expect at least 4-6 weeks for improvement if this happens to be a dietary sensitivity problem. What is the diet she prescribed? Does it contain a novel protein source (i.e., hypoallergenic, only one protein source he has never been exposed to), and has your vet also recommended some form of fiber supplementation?
Untreated hyperthyroidism can indeed lead to complications, such as intractable diarrhea, congestive heart failure, renal damage and even death. Your vet wants to monitor the thyroid function to decide whether or not treatment is appropriate. As with pre-existing CRF, the renal disease can complicate hyperthyroidism, in which treating the hyperthyroidism would become necessary (depending on the progression, signs/symptoms, degree of thyroid disfunction)
Re: Ivy...... your vets are more concerned about the CRF than the heart mumur at this point because they know how she is or is not responding to treating the CRF (labs, signs/symptoms, response to meds, etc). Some murmurs only need to be monitored, but if the grade is higher than 2 or 3 and when renal impairment is a primary disease, then it is of coure appropriate to monitor heart function on a regular basis, as with all other organ function. If radiographs didn't reveal any enlargement, fluid, blockages, etc, then monitoring may be all that's needed, but if you are concerned, by all means, get a full cardiology workup with a feline cardiologist. Your vet is not saying "let's not worry about the heart", he/she is simply saying the CRF is probably the most primary disease consideration and it needs to be managed carefully....as with any primary disease, secondary problems can always develop as a result. For this reason, again, monitoring the heart at this point may be all that is necessary.
As for the broken tooth, I can't answer that, I wasn't there and don't know when it happened. But, it does need to be examined, because if it is a diseased tooth or that the break is too deep or too near the gumline, it should probably be extracted.
Your vet may be wanting to perform an endoscopy and/or colonoscopy because she can't find any other underlying cause to the inflammation/persistent diarrhea....this would be the appropriate diagnosic in the absense of other confirmed diagnosis, especially if she needed to confirm IBD in order to treat effectively, or to rule out something like intestinal neoplasia.
However, due to T.W.'s age, I wouldn't recommend the endoscopy or colonoscopy until or unless all diagnostics and treatment approaches fail completely. Give the new diet a try and expect at least 4-6 weeks for improvement if this happens to be a dietary sensitivity problem. What is the diet she prescribed? Does it contain a novel protein source (i.e., hypoallergenic, only one protein source he has never been exposed to), and has your vet also recommended some form of fiber supplementation?
Untreated hyperthyroidism can indeed lead to complications, such as intractable diarrhea, congestive heart failure, renal damage and even death. Your vet wants to monitor the thyroid function to decide whether or not treatment is appropriate. As with pre-existing CRF, the renal disease can complicate hyperthyroidism, in which treating the hyperthyroidism would become necessary (depending on the progression, signs/symptoms, degree of thyroid disfunction)
Re: Ivy...... your vets are more concerned about the CRF than the heart mumur at this point because they know how she is or is not responding to treating the CRF (labs, signs/symptoms, response to meds, etc). Some murmurs only need to be monitored, but if the grade is higher than 2 or 3 and when renal impairment is a primary disease, then it is of coure appropriate to monitor heart function on a regular basis, as with all other organ function. If radiographs didn't reveal any enlargement, fluid, blockages, etc, then monitoring may be all that's needed, but if you are concerned, by all means, get a full cardiology workup with a feline cardiologist. Your vet is not saying "let's not worry about the heart", he/she is simply saying the CRF is probably the most primary disease consideration and it needs to be managed carefully....as with any primary disease, secondary problems can always develop as a result. For this reason, again, monitoring the heart at this point may be all that is necessary.
As for the broken tooth, I can't answer that, I wasn't there and don't know when it happened. But, it does need to be examined, because if it is a diseased tooth or that the break is too deep or too near the gumline, it should probably be extracted.
..........Traci
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leslks@aol.com
- Posts: 72
- Joined: Thu Oct 16, 2003 9:59 am
Re: Teddy (Giardia) and Ivy
T.W. - Panacur didn't help. Isn't Metronidazol basically the same thing? Today, after two days on the med, the diarrhea is worse. What about trying an antidiarrheal med for people? However, I will try it for the term you suggested. I will find another vet and hope someone is better qualified.
The food we tried was Eukanuba low residue. She didn't tell me it would take a long time to work like you did. Instead she changed to Metronidazol. I still Pred would have been worth a try. I took the food back yesterday.
Ivy - Since the murmur has remained a grade 3 for over a month now should I wait on the extensive tests right now? We have an appt. with a cardiologist, there aren't many here, who is currently in trouble with the vet board. I am really at a loss as to whom to trust. Would monitoring the murmur be ok. What are the causes of murmurs? They do not always go into more serious heart disease?
I know you weren't there with Ivy. I was asking if they could have broken her tooth with the clippers when they cut her paw. The tooth is not broken off anywhere near the gum. It is the long part that hangs under the lip that is missing.
The food we tried was Eukanuba low residue. She didn't tell me it would take a long time to work like you did. Instead she changed to Metronidazol. I still Pred would have been worth a try. I took the food back yesterday.
Ivy - Since the murmur has remained a grade 3 for over a month now should I wait on the extensive tests right now? We have an appt. with a cardiologist, there aren't many here, who is currently in trouble with the vet board. I am really at a loss as to whom to trust. Would monitoring the murmur be ok. What are the causes of murmurs? They do not always go into more serious heart disease?
I know you weren't there with Ivy. I was asking if they could have broken her tooth with the clippers when they cut her paw. The tooth is not broken off anywhere near the gum. It is the long part that hangs under the lip that is missing.
Lynda
Re: Teddy (Giardia) and Ivy
Well, it would be reaching to say that the metronidazole is causing or exacerbating the diarrhea at this point, it would be one of the first meds to consider treating persistent diarrhea, but again, not knowing the underlyging cause of the diarrhea is the problem. If it is in fact, IBD (at least as your vet tentatively suspects), then the dietary change should at least give some indication if the diet can work alone. No dietary approach is going to work overnight, especially in the case of IBD...if there is a food sensitivity, it can technically take up to 4-6 weeks to show improvement. Low residue is not a bad prescription food, but if you've used it for at least 4 weeks and the situation is not improving, you can always opt for another diet, such as Hills D/D, I/D, Z/D,... Purina EN,... IVD Limited, Hi-Factor, Neutral Formulas or.....Waltham's Slected Protein.
No, don't use human over-the-counter antidiarrheals and they contain subsalicylates, toxic to cats.
If you already have an appointment with a cardiologist, try to keep that appointment because such appointments are hard to schedule. It sounds like you truly want peace of mind on the heart issue, so keep the appointment. The causes can be congenital or aquired, the latter usually do to a secondary health condition or developing myopathy, (i.e., dilated, hypertrophic or restrictive)..or congestive heart failure as a primary disease (CHF can also occur secondary to CRF). It depends on the individual cat, the physiology, the potential for primary/secondary conditions, etc as to whether a murmur will develop into something more serious. In congestive heart failure, or a cardiomyopathy, these are usually progressive. In some cats, murmurs may only be mild and may never develop into anything serious and may only require observation and monitoring.
As for the tooth, I suppose that if clippers were used and they cut her paw, she may have bitten them, hence a tooth getting braised by the clipper.....however, this is only conjecture and speculation, and the chances of that would be very slim, since the tech or vet should have had a good handle on the proper restraining technique during the procedure. There are various reasons a canine tooth can get chipped, broken, especially if it was diseased in the first place, or if very brittle or was cracked in any way that was more suspectible to breaking off. In any event, the tooth needs to be evaluated to figure out if it needs extracted or not.
No, don't use human over-the-counter antidiarrheals and they contain subsalicylates, toxic to cats.
If you already have an appointment with a cardiologist, try to keep that appointment because such appointments are hard to schedule. It sounds like you truly want peace of mind on the heart issue, so keep the appointment. The causes can be congenital or aquired, the latter usually do to a secondary health condition or developing myopathy, (i.e., dilated, hypertrophic or restrictive)..or congestive heart failure as a primary disease (CHF can also occur secondary to CRF). It depends on the individual cat, the physiology, the potential for primary/secondary conditions, etc as to whether a murmur will develop into something more serious. In congestive heart failure, or a cardiomyopathy, these are usually progressive. In some cats, murmurs may only be mild and may never develop into anything serious and may only require observation and monitoring.
As for the tooth, I suppose that if clippers were used and they cut her paw, she may have bitten them, hence a tooth getting braised by the clipper.....however, this is only conjecture and speculation, and the chances of that would be very slim, since the tech or vet should have had a good handle on the proper restraining technique during the procedure. There are various reasons a canine tooth can get chipped, broken, especially if it was diseased in the first place, or if very brittle or was cracked in any way that was more suspectible to breaking off. In any event, the tooth needs to be evaluated to figure out if it needs extracted or not.
..........Traci
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leslks@aol.com
- Posts: 72
- Joined: Thu Oct 16, 2003 9:59 am
Re: Teddy (Giardia) and Ivy
The cardiologist said that her blood pressure is 198. Seemed like
they had a lot of trouble with the machine. Maybe they just kept
doing it see if it was that high. A month ago the vet said it was 140
and that is good. Card. said that is high normal. He showed me
several hearts with bad things that he said cats usually get. After
the Echo he said it isn't that bad. She DOES NOT have a grade 3
murmur (other vets in same office), she has a gallop rhythm. With her
CREAT higher two weeks ago than the week before, even though I didn't
give her fluids before that appt., he can't see why she is alive.
Fluids would have only lowered it a slight bit.
He put her on Norvasc 2.5 mg., ¼ tab at night. He wouldn't be
surprised if I call tomorrow that she died. I had to sign a release
for the med. I am going to give her her renal tab now and continue
with what we have been doing. Will the Norvasc help? He wants to
check her again in 10 days. He said this is what he would do if she
were his.
Ivy ate before we left for the appt., ate when we got back and is still very active and no where near leaving us. I got her the meds and started it Wed. evening. She is still doing very well.
If the blood pressure becomes normal can the gallop rhythm also become normal?
What causes the fluids to not absorb fully some of the time?
As for the broken off tooth, Ivy is a very good girl. The techs confirmed that and said they did not restrain her. The fact that they cut her paw shows me they are inept. In fact, the Cardiologist said that he will not cut her and he didn't.
they had a lot of trouble with the machine. Maybe they just kept
doing it see if it was that high. A month ago the vet said it was 140
and that is good. Card. said that is high normal. He showed me
several hearts with bad things that he said cats usually get. After
the Echo he said it isn't that bad. She DOES NOT have a grade 3
murmur (other vets in same office), she has a gallop rhythm. With her
CREAT higher two weeks ago than the week before, even though I didn't
give her fluids before that appt., he can't see why she is alive.
Fluids would have only lowered it a slight bit.
He put her on Norvasc 2.5 mg., ¼ tab at night. He wouldn't be
surprised if I call tomorrow that she died. I had to sign a release
for the med. I am going to give her her renal tab now and continue
with what we have been doing. Will the Norvasc help? He wants to
check her again in 10 days. He said this is what he would do if she
were his.
Ivy ate before we left for the appt., ate when we got back and is still very active and no where near leaving us. I got her the meds and started it Wed. evening. She is still doing very well.
If the blood pressure becomes normal can the gallop rhythm also become normal?
What causes the fluids to not absorb fully some of the time?
As for the broken off tooth, Ivy is a very good girl. The techs confirmed that and said they did not restrain her. The fact that they cut her paw shows me they are inept. In fact, the Cardiologist said that he will not cut her and he didn't.
Lynda
Re: Teddy (Giardia) and Ivy
The hypertension is probably caused by the primary CRF., the Norvasc will help to some degree, but as with any channel blockers, you will need to followup with your vet frequently to monitor the drug's effectiveness or to monitor for complications (i.e, retinal detachment, potassium/sodium balance, anemia, etc).....monitoring the blood pressure frequently is also required. Be prepared she may need to be on the norvasc long term or intermittently, depending on your vet's evaluations/bloodwork/continued hypertension. In that event, your vet would either lower the dose or choose another medication. Most cases of hypertension can be managed with the appropriate medication.
..........Traci