Hi Kim,
How's our Charlie doing? How are YOU doing? Hang in there.
I hope that WHEN Charlie recovers that you will go find a vet who has time to answer your questions. I cannot believe that they could not take the time to discuss Charlie's meds with you, or call you when you need to speak to someone. They should have a time at the end of the day that they call their clients with questions, particularly one who is as serious as Charlie. I would also request his blood work results. It's always good to have them on hand for comparison.
As Traci says, be sure to get his thyroid tested. I would certainly not want to take the risk of using Tapazole again, but the condition will have to be treated. When do you have his PCV checked again? Is his little nose still pink? Is he still feeling well? I sure hope that he will continue to do well. I really love to hear good news, so give me some! (Aren't I selfish?)
Anyway, I'm thinking about you. ((hugs)),kk
Update on Charlie (low PCV)
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Kim D
Re: Update on Charlie (low PCV)
Hi KK,
Thank you so much for asking about us!
Charlie is really feeling good. I'd say he's at about 75% of his normal self. He's eating like crazy and finally moving around the house -- he's been laying in a little bed on my desk for 2 weeks. I'm waiting for him to give me a clue in his catbox this morning. What a constant vigil this has been!
I'm so upset about the vets not getting back to me about a simple message I left on Wed asking if the pathology report was a complete serology and if he should still be on his prednisone. But I'm going to be livid if this thing turns out to be because of the Tapazole and here's why:
I'm probably repeating myself here (forgive me, I've gone insane from all this) but when he had his teeth cleaned in November I went to pick him up and the office person handed me a bottle of Tapazole and told me he was hyperthyroid so here, take these. I said I wanted to consult with the doctor about them before shoving pills down my cat's throat, but no one ever did, despite repeated requests for three weeks. Finally I started giving them to him anyway and 16 days later he was at the vets because he hadn't eaten in 3 days. That was the start of the whole craziness. I continued to give him the Tapazole for the next 10 days! No one suggested the possibility that there could be a connection. I think there is.
It really bugs me because I have never picked up a new medication for myself or my family without having to have a consultation with the pharmacist first. In fact I'm always given a list of possible complications to look out for. So why was I allowed to give my cat medication with no consultation? And I even asked for one many times!
I don't know what to hope for, that it was the Tapazole that caused his problem or not. At any rate I'm going to try to get to the vet today and get the records of all my cats just in case I can find a new vet (I'm not a car owner so getting to the vet is a major issue). Hopefully if I am in the office I can get a vet to take some time with me. They are so crowded now and so rushed all the time. I've been going there for 12 years and until a year ago they were great.
As far as I am doing, I'm still a nervous wreck but not sobbing all the time so that's an improvement! I'm waaaaaaay behind in work too so this weekend I'm going to try to catch up. But I will keep you updated. Your support really means a lot to me!
Kim
Thank you so much for asking about us!
Charlie is really feeling good. I'd say he's at about 75% of his normal self. He's eating like crazy and finally moving around the house -- he's been laying in a little bed on my desk for 2 weeks. I'm waiting for him to give me a clue in his catbox this morning. What a constant vigil this has been!
I'm so upset about the vets not getting back to me about a simple message I left on Wed asking if the pathology report was a complete serology and if he should still be on his prednisone. But I'm going to be livid if this thing turns out to be because of the Tapazole and here's why:
I'm probably repeating myself here (forgive me, I've gone insane from all this) but when he had his teeth cleaned in November I went to pick him up and the office person handed me a bottle of Tapazole and told me he was hyperthyroid so here, take these. I said I wanted to consult with the doctor about them before shoving pills down my cat's throat, but no one ever did, despite repeated requests for three weeks. Finally I started giving them to him anyway and 16 days later he was at the vets because he hadn't eaten in 3 days. That was the start of the whole craziness. I continued to give him the Tapazole for the next 10 days! No one suggested the possibility that there could be a connection. I think there is.
It really bugs me because I have never picked up a new medication for myself or my family without having to have a consultation with the pharmacist first. In fact I'm always given a list of possible complications to look out for. So why was I allowed to give my cat medication with no consultation? And I even asked for one many times!
I don't know what to hope for, that it was the Tapazole that caused his problem or not. At any rate I'm going to try to get to the vet today and get the records of all my cats just in case I can find a new vet (I'm not a car owner so getting to the vet is a major issue). Hopefully if I am in the office I can get a vet to take some time with me. They are so crowded now and so rushed all the time. I've been going there for 12 years and until a year ago they were great.
As far as I am doing, I'm still a nervous wreck but not sobbing all the time so that's an improvement! I'm waaaaaaay behind in work too so this weekend I'm going to try to catch up. But I will keep you updated. Your support really means a lot to me!
Kim
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Kim D
Re: Update on Charlie (low PCV)
Hi you guys,
Here's an update on Charlie. He's definitely getting better but I am still worried. His cat box report for the past few days has been good. His stool is no longer black and tarry. It's almost normal, except that now it's the tiniest bit on the greenish side. So I don't know what that means, but I'm guessing that at least he stopped bleeding. Also he's not urinating as heavily and when he does it's much more normal, not so watery. That might have something to do with me taking him off the prednisone, which was a call I made after his blood transfusion. No one ever got back to me on that or his path report (if it was a complete serology or not). I've had it with that clinic. I'm going to try to get asap in to retrieve all my cats' records and I think I found a new vet.
I'm convinced now that his problems are from the Tapazole. The more I read about it the angrier I get. He was showing early signs of trouble well before I took him off of it. For one thing the reason why I took him to the vet in the first place was because he had stopped eating, even though he was clearly hungry. He was constantly crying for food but would only stare at his bowl and not eat. My first thought was that there was something wrong with his mouth -- I thought he had a gum or tooth infection. But no one paid attention to that idea. As it turns out one of the early signs of an adverse reaction to Tapazole is a sort throat. Grrrr......
My question now is that if you remove the catalyst for this anemia problem, can the bone marrow heal itself or is it permanently damaged? I called the Aplastic Anemia Society Friday but was too late -- they had already gone home for the weekend. But the remaining office person said someone would call me Monday.
But anyway Charlie is feeling a whole lot better. He's putting on some of the weight he lost and is moving around the house, finding the sunny spots and even wanted to go outside yesterday.
That's all the news for now!
Kim
Here's an update on Charlie. He's definitely getting better but I am still worried. His cat box report for the past few days has been good. His stool is no longer black and tarry. It's almost normal, except that now it's the tiniest bit on the greenish side. So I don't know what that means, but I'm guessing that at least he stopped bleeding. Also he's not urinating as heavily and when he does it's much more normal, not so watery. That might have something to do with me taking him off the prednisone, which was a call I made after his blood transfusion. No one ever got back to me on that or his path report (if it was a complete serology or not). I've had it with that clinic. I'm going to try to get asap in to retrieve all my cats' records and I think I found a new vet.
I'm convinced now that his problems are from the Tapazole. The more I read about it the angrier I get. He was showing early signs of trouble well before I took him off of it. For one thing the reason why I took him to the vet in the first place was because he had stopped eating, even though he was clearly hungry. He was constantly crying for food but would only stare at his bowl and not eat. My first thought was that there was something wrong with his mouth -- I thought he had a gum or tooth infection. But no one paid attention to that idea. As it turns out one of the early signs of an adverse reaction to Tapazole is a sort throat. Grrrr......
My question now is that if you remove the catalyst for this anemia problem, can the bone marrow heal itself or is it permanently damaged? I called the Aplastic Anemia Society Friday but was too late -- they had already gone home for the weekend. But the remaining office person said someone would call me Monday.
But anyway Charlie is feeling a whole lot better. He's putting on some of the weight he lost and is moving around the house, finding the sunny spots and even wanted to go outside yesterday.
That's all the news for now!
Kim
Re: Update on Charlie (low PCV)
Oh Kim,
This is really making my blood boil. It is totally unacceptable for you to not get feedback from the vets, or call-backs when you request them. Your Charlie has been in a critical situation recently, and you need them to discuss his treatment and care. I could just come over there and give them a good talking to! Kim, please do not delay in getting in to see another vet pronto. I'm glad to hear that Charlie is improving, but you must get him seen to make sure he's doing ok in all areas. Check that PCV, check his liver and kidney enzymes, and his thyroid. The new vet can request his records from the old vet. Let me tell you, with my first two kitties, they both had long-term illnesses and we moved a lot (and are still doing that!). I've been through a bunch of vets, and they were very good about calling me back at the end of the day if they do not have time during the day and they were swamped! They should have a time set aside to return phone calls. You really need to complain to someone. About removing the prednisone, I would still keep giving it until I had him seen again, but since you have stopped it, I also want to caution you in further situations that sudden removal of pred can be very dangerous. Since Charlie took it for only a short time, it's probably ok, but when taken for a while, pred must be tapered very slowly. This is another bit of info the vets should have given you. Lastly, removing the Tapazole may very well stop the process of bone marrow depression, but you need to be sure to get him rechecked very soon to make sure it's kicked back in. The tranfusion is only a temporary fix until that happens. He needs to be under a vet's care, so please get on the phone and get him in somewhere else ASAP. Ooooh, I'm still steaming! Ok, I'll go now, but I wanted to let you know I'm thinking about you and Charlie!
((hugs)), kk
This is really making my blood boil. It is totally unacceptable for you to not get feedback from the vets, or call-backs when you request them. Your Charlie has been in a critical situation recently, and you need them to discuss his treatment and care. I could just come over there and give them a good talking to! Kim, please do not delay in getting in to see another vet pronto. I'm glad to hear that Charlie is improving, but you must get him seen to make sure he's doing ok in all areas. Check that PCV, check his liver and kidney enzymes, and his thyroid. The new vet can request his records from the old vet. Let me tell you, with my first two kitties, they both had long-term illnesses and we moved a lot (and are still doing that!). I've been through a bunch of vets, and they were very good about calling me back at the end of the day if they do not have time during the day and they were swamped! They should have a time set aside to return phone calls. You really need to complain to someone. About removing the prednisone, I would still keep giving it until I had him seen again, but since you have stopped it, I also want to caution you in further situations that sudden removal of pred can be very dangerous. Since Charlie took it for only a short time, it's probably ok, but when taken for a while, pred must be tapered very slowly. This is another bit of info the vets should have given you. Lastly, removing the Tapazole may very well stop the process of bone marrow depression, but you need to be sure to get him rechecked very soon to make sure it's kicked back in. The tranfusion is only a temporary fix until that happens. He needs to be under a vet's care, so please get on the phone and get him in somewhere else ASAP. Ooooh, I'm still steaming! Ok, I'll go now, but I wanted to let you know I'm thinking about you and Charlie!
((hugs)), kk
Re: Update on Charlie (low PCV)
Kim, I must echo KK's advice.....you cannot simply cease the prednisone, your vet needs to be consulted about this immediately. In cases like Charlie's, the course of action would probably have been to continue the prednisone up until the point of full recovery, and then it would be tapered slowly, lower dose, until eventually, ceased. The process could take anywhere from 2 weeks to 6 months or more, depending on the condition, diagnosis, health status and bloodwork results. As I mentioned earlier, prednisone can leave serious side effects if not handled/dosed correctly...ceasing it abruptly can cause a miriad of problems, and those problems can be really really fast, even lethal sometimes.
Only one example of several....if Charlie happened to have hemobart, the pred might have been used up to 4 months....hemobart is a condition that requires agressive care and frequent blood monitoring. Treatment itself usually is extended to 4 months, longer if the condition is not resolving. As KK mentions, the transfusion may have only been a temporary fix, you STILL have to recheck bloodwork immediately so you know where Charlie is at, his organ function, his PCV and thyroid functions, and of course, liver and kidney function. This will also determine the necessity for the prednisone and/or other medications.
Another example is neoplasia....prednisone is often used to treat a variety of cancer conditions for a great length of time, some cats will need a carefully adjusted course of prednisone for life.
Without these tests, and without a followup exam, Charlie is STILL at risk. Anemia is a very serious condition....it can decline so rapidly, you've witnessed that before, don't risk it again.
As for the stool, it could be a bacterial infection or poor absorption of nutrients from the diet...you need to inform your vet, and get Charlie re-examined, bloodwork re-evaluated immediately.
Only one example of several....if Charlie happened to have hemobart, the pred might have been used up to 4 months....hemobart is a condition that requires agressive care and frequent blood monitoring. Treatment itself usually is extended to 4 months, longer if the condition is not resolving. As KK mentions, the transfusion may have only been a temporary fix, you STILL have to recheck bloodwork immediately so you know where Charlie is at, his organ function, his PCV and thyroid functions, and of course, liver and kidney function. This will also determine the necessity for the prednisone and/or other medications.
Another example is neoplasia....prednisone is often used to treat a variety of cancer conditions for a great length of time, some cats will need a carefully adjusted course of prednisone for life.
Without these tests, and without a followup exam, Charlie is STILL at risk. Anemia is a very serious condition....it can decline so rapidly, you've witnessed that before, don't risk it again.
As for the stool, it could be a bacterial infection or poor absorption of nutrients from the diet...you need to inform your vet, and get Charlie re-examined, bloodwork re-evaluated immediately.
..........Traci
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Kim D
Re: Update on Charlie (low PCV)
Hi Tracy and KK,
Thanks for the rapid feedback! I really appreciate it. There is a vet here in town who came highly recommended to me last night through an experienced friend of a friend (a major cat person) so I am going to call her tomorrow morning (they're closed today). I'm so excited! Hopefully she will see us right away.
I'm actually not worried about the pred thing -- he had been down to 5mg a day before the transfusion and never took another one after he got the fresh blood. He seems to be doing fine without it. If I could get my path report I might be able to tell you about the hemobart situation etc. Hopefully tomorrow I can get those records given to me by hand (it's very difficult for me to get to that vet). I am not only steaming, I'm also highly curious. I mean, this is REALLY bugging me.
I have rehearsed all kinds of speeches in my head about how I'm going to approach that vet (actually vets -- 2 have been involved) and I just don't know the best approach. I guess we'll see how I handle it when the time comes for the face off. I'm sorry but I really feel they are greatly to blame for this due to the lack of communication. For my part I wish I would have researched this drug myself before I gave it to him. Why did I think I had to wait for the vet to advise me? I could have been looking for signs myself, and looking back they were all there. Well not all of them but the sore throat part makes perfect sense. I thought he had a toothache or something.
I know he's not out of danger, don't worry. I want all of those levels checked too. He sure is feeling better all the time though. His stool isn't even greenish now. And he's starting to act bratty again (a good sign) by insisting on sitting on a stack of papers I'm working on (I'm an editor).
But boy am I behind in work. It's like I've taken 2 weeks off so I have a lot of catching up to do. So back to the old grind! I will update you tomorrow.
Thanks again for everything!
Kim
Thanks for the rapid feedback! I really appreciate it. There is a vet here in town who came highly recommended to me last night through an experienced friend of a friend (a major cat person) so I am going to call her tomorrow morning (they're closed today). I'm so excited! Hopefully she will see us right away.
I'm actually not worried about the pred thing -- he had been down to 5mg a day before the transfusion and never took another one after he got the fresh blood. He seems to be doing fine without it. If I could get my path report I might be able to tell you about the hemobart situation etc. Hopefully tomorrow I can get those records given to me by hand (it's very difficult for me to get to that vet). I am not only steaming, I'm also highly curious. I mean, this is REALLY bugging me.
I have rehearsed all kinds of speeches in my head about how I'm going to approach that vet (actually vets -- 2 have been involved) and I just don't know the best approach. I guess we'll see how I handle it when the time comes for the face off. I'm sorry but I really feel they are greatly to blame for this due to the lack of communication. For my part I wish I would have researched this drug myself before I gave it to him. Why did I think I had to wait for the vet to advise me? I could have been looking for signs myself, and looking back they were all there. Well not all of them but the sore throat part makes perfect sense. I thought he had a toothache or something.
I know he's not out of danger, don't worry. I want all of those levels checked too. He sure is feeling better all the time though. His stool isn't even greenish now. And he's starting to act bratty again (a good sign) by insisting on sitting on a stack of papers I'm working on (I'm an editor).
But boy am I behind in work. It's like I've taken 2 weeks off so I have a lot of catching up to do. So back to the old grind! I will update you tomorrow.
Thanks again for everything!
Kim
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Kim D
Re: Update on Charlie (low PCV)
Hello again!
I just got back from our appt with our new vet and the report is very good! First of all I am so glad to have found her. She's just wonderful! And you know I appreciated that she spent 45 minutes with us. There was no rushing around or chaos in the office at all. Very peaceful.
She did Charlie's blood work and also managed to have his last path report faxed to her, so I have copies of both here for you Traci. I asked her about the Coombs test and hemobart. She did not see anything that looked like Coombs results but did say that the hemobart looked fine. Anyway, if there is anything you want me to look up I can.
Also his packed cell volume is up to 18.5. The doctor said that's still iffy but it's sure better than it was. She wants him in again Friday morning for another test. His thyroid test results will be in tomorrow and I'll report that then.
She also said he has high blood pressure (she could tell from when she was taking his blood). No one had mentioned that before so I don't know if it's new.
Liver, kidneys and about a dozen other things on that page (AML, ALB, ALKB...etc) all tested straight down the middle, so that's good.
HCT: 18.5; HGB: 6.4 g/dl; PLT 500 x10-9/L -- those were the only things that looked bad. The rest on that page was normal.
She said it looked like Tapazole was the culprit. Interestingly enough she said that if you search vet medicine forums for Tapazole and anemia, you get a million hits, but no one has really linked the two for some reason. I told her to search the people sites for it -- they have definitely linked the two for people.
She put him on glucosomine in case there is some intestinal bleeding however small. Also some stuff that helps increase the red blood cell production and some liquid vitamins. She's a nutritionist but mostly right now she said he could eat anything because he needs to gain weight. So we'll talk about diet stuff at a later date.
I feel so much better about all this now. At least I feel like I have a doctor who really cares. Charlie was so relaxed in her office too. I will keep you updated and Traci, if there is anything you want me to look up on his blood reports let me know.
Kim
I just got back from our appt with our new vet and the report is very good! First of all I am so glad to have found her. She's just wonderful! And you know I appreciated that she spent 45 minutes with us. There was no rushing around or chaos in the office at all. Very peaceful.
She did Charlie's blood work and also managed to have his last path report faxed to her, so I have copies of both here for you Traci. I asked her about the Coombs test and hemobart. She did not see anything that looked like Coombs results but did say that the hemobart looked fine. Anyway, if there is anything you want me to look up I can.
Also his packed cell volume is up to 18.5. The doctor said that's still iffy but it's sure better than it was. She wants him in again Friday morning for another test. His thyroid test results will be in tomorrow and I'll report that then.
She also said he has high blood pressure (she could tell from when she was taking his blood). No one had mentioned that before so I don't know if it's new.
Liver, kidneys and about a dozen other things on that page (AML, ALB, ALKB...etc) all tested straight down the middle, so that's good.
HCT: 18.5; HGB: 6.4 g/dl; PLT 500 x10-9/L -- those were the only things that looked bad. The rest on that page was normal.
She said it looked like Tapazole was the culprit. Interestingly enough she said that if you search vet medicine forums for Tapazole and anemia, you get a million hits, but no one has really linked the two for some reason. I told her to search the people sites for it -- they have definitely linked the two for people.
She put him on glucosomine in case there is some intestinal bleeding however small. Also some stuff that helps increase the red blood cell production and some liquid vitamins. She's a nutritionist but mostly right now she said he could eat anything because he needs to gain weight. So we'll talk about diet stuff at a later date.
I feel so much better about all this now. At least I feel like I have a doctor who really cares. Charlie was so relaxed in her office too. I will keep you updated and Traci, if there is anything you want me to look up on his blood reports let me know.
Kim
Re: Update on Charlie (low PCV)
Hurray! I'm so glad that you have found a new vet. Now, let's just keep that PCV headed in the right direction. Please keep us updated. Oh, and I have my own news..NCR. I'm pregnant!
((hugs)), kk
((hugs)), kk
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Kim D
Re: Update on Charlie (low PCV)
Thanks for thinking of us! And Congratulations! Wow, what wonderful news.
Kim
Kim
Re: Update on Charlie (low PCV)
Kim, may I ask what the supplements are and what the "other stuff" is?
The PCV is still far below normal...please keep an eye on that, his symptoms, his vitals.
The PCV is still far below normal...please keep an eye on that, his symptoms, his vitals.
..........Traci