NO CANCER!! NO CANCER!! NO CANCER!!!!!!!!

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LisaK
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NO CANCER!! NO CANCER!! NO CANCER!!!!!!!!

Post by LisaK »

:D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D

YAHOOOOOOO!!!!! The vet called and said the cytology report showed NO cancer of any type! Wow, I was Sure Tux had lymphoma. What he has is lipidosis. What's weird is he eats like a horse and has no history of anorexia. He was just tested for diabetes recently and will be again when he finishes the antibiotic. If a cat continues to eat well, does he get over this? I suppose having FIV makes it even more difficult, right? He will be getting milk thistle (Silymarin) and Felobite 2. What else can I do for him? What else do I ask the vet?
kate & kobi
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Post by kate & kobi »

Glad to hear it, Lisa!

I dunno about your other questions, but I'm sure someone else will know.
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kk
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Woo hoo!..

Post by kk »

I am so happy! Tux is so beautiful! I love tuxedo cats. I'm on my third, (well, actually fourth if you count an old boyfriends baby). Bless you for taking such good care of Tux! kk
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Traci
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Re: NO CANCER!! NO CANCER!! NO CANCER!!!!!!!!

Post by Traci »

LisaK wrote:What he has is lipidosis. What's weird is he eats like a horse and has no history of anorexia. He was just tested for diabetes recently and will be again when he finishes the antibiotic. If a cat continues to eat well, does he get over this? I suppose having FIV makes it even more difficult, right? He will be getting milk thistle (Silymarin) and Felobite 2. What else can I do for him? What else do I ask the vet?
Well the good news of course, no cancer. But the bad news is that you must treat this agressively, and milk thistle, felobite alone isn't going to do it. Your vet probably wants to prescribe a high protein, high caloric diet to help regenerate the liver. The key essential therapy in hepatic lipidosis is proper diet, fluids, and antibiotics.

Diet: Preferrably Hill's A/D or Eukanuba Recovery, mixed with water (for tube feeding, forced feeding)

Fluids: You must ensure more than a usual amount of natural water intake daily, dehydration is one of the most common problems in HL, electrolytes must be replenished on an on-going basis. Sub-q fluids may need to be administered if the dehydration deficit is high.

Antibiotics: Broad spectrum antibiotics, such as amoxicillin or clavamox are usually mainstay in treating HL. This combats secondary infections that can targe the liver as it starts regenerating itself.

If Tux is still eating on his own, your vet may only require you to ensure a new diet as mentioned above, to ensure plenty of protein and calories. However, depending on the extent of the condition depends on what your vet feels is the best approach for your kitty in particular. Usually, HL is so advanced that tube feeding or a surgically placed parenteal tube is placed so that administering food and water and meds can be done through syringe into the tube. A calculated and very consistent feeding schedule must be met, your vet will instruct you based on Tux's needs at this point.

Most HL kitties cannot survive on allowing them to eat on their own. While it is good that he is, it may not be enough. Forced feeding rarely is successful either, which is why most successful recoveries are through a parenteal approach. The key is consistency in the meal, the feeding schedule, the amounts per feeding, and that kitty is receiving the required amount daily. Several feedings a day may be necessary.

Your vet will discuss all these things with you, and I wouldn't wait a second for him to call you, get started on his treatment approach ASAP, you have the added burden of FIV to worry about, so aggressive treatment must be approached in order to expect a successful outcome. Tux may be more suscpetible to secondary infections due to the FIV, so you don't want to miss anything in his treatment.

It's possible you have caught this just before severe liver degeneration, and your vet may not require for Tux as much as I've noted here, but don't wait to find out, call him and find out what his treatment approach is.

Hang in there, Lisa, Tux is obviously a very strong boy, let us know how he's doing......
..........Traci
LisaK
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Ok, now you just............

Post by LisaK »

scared the hell out of me! Tux is still eating normally. My vet didn't mention changing food when I talked to him. Will he definitely stop eating? He's on Baytril now - he was on Amoxitabs and Metronidazole previously. When the Baytril is gone, does he go on another antibiotic? He's not dehydrated and he's not a big water drinker. He evidently gets his water mostly from his canned food. Will he need sub Q fluids anyway? This is scary. I'll talk to the vet tomorrow when I go to pick up the felobite.

Thanks for all the info.

Lisa
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Traci
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Post by Traci »

I certainly didn't mean to scare you, but this is a specialty area for me. I don't know what your vet has planned, and I'm actually wondering why he didn't tell you that today when he told you the results. Perhaps he doesn't classify this as a serious stage, but in any event, you need to find out.

Again, it is great that Tux is eating on his own, but in HL kitties, it is rarely enough. As a matter of fact, treatment gets agressive before it gets better. Usually one must expect at the very least, 4 weeks for kitty to even begin to eat a sufficient amount on his own, even after that, consistency is still very important thereafter until all labs reveal the liver has healed, all jaundice or icteric blood is undetectable, and hydration status is normal.

Occasionally, and Tux may be in this category, the diagnosis is done in a timely manner and all that is required is a diet regimin, maybe antibiotic and fluid support if dehydration is a concern. Those cases are rare though, so that's why I prefer you discuss every detail with your vet so that you know to what extent the condition really is. If Tux falls into this rare category, then you're very very lucky and supportive care may be all that is needed.

Again, I don't know what all the labs revealed or to what extent your vet feels the liver has degenerated, but anytime a diagnosis of HL is done, the vet usually gets right to the point with a treatment approach and takes the time to discuss with the client what to expect.

Please at least humor me, call your vet first thing in the a.m., find out more, and let me know what he says.
..........Traci
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Tina B and crew
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Post by Tina B and crew »

The key is consistency in the meal, the feeding schedule, the amounts per feeding, and that kitty is receiving the required amount daily. Several feedings a day may be necessary.
Traci's got that right...and I know from experience. I do pray that Tux is one of those rare cases she speaks of, but I think I'd take Traci's advice and discuss it further with your vet. Our Gizmo developed HL and we tried the force feeding, it just was too stressful. We finally opted for the PEG tube (after a failed attempt at using the esophogeal tube) and had to feed him on such a regular schedule that we had to take turns coming home from work during the day to see that he got his proper amount of nutrients. My holistic vet diagnosed him, but she referred me to an internal med specialist, as she does with any serious problems. But she supported his care with the holistic approach. We added colostrum to his A/D...otherwise I did nothing else holistically until I new he was on the mend...then we did some homeopathics to support the liver.

Lisa, feel free to email me anytime....I'd be glad to share more on my experiences with you...or you can post here. I'm keeping Tux in my prayers and praying that he will need no further aggressive care.

Wishing I had known about this place when Giz was sick!
Tina B and "what a crew!"

How we behave towards cats here below determines our status in heaven ~Robert A. Heinlein
LisaK
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I spoke to the vet

Post by LisaK »

Traci wrote:.

Please at least humor me, call your vet first thing in the a.m., find out more, and let me know what he says.

I'm getting so scared that Tux will die from this, yet the vet does not seem overly concerned BECAUSE Tux is eating normally and has been all along. He eats about every 90 minutes! I mean he's concerned, just doesn't feel Tux is in danger of dying or whatever. He's mystified why Tux has this. He said he was surprised when the ultrasound Dr suspected lipidosis because he knows Tux has no history of anorexia. When I asked if he WILL stop eating, he said I should not assume he WILL stop eating since he has been eating all along. The cytology report said the lipidosis is mild. He also said as long as Tux is eating normally, he can stay on his regular food. I asked about the high protein/high calorie diet and he said they give KD or LD which is LOW protein because high protein can affect the liver. Tux had a bile acid test last week - after fasting and after eating and it was in the normal range both times. He also said Tux will have to stay on antibiotics for a while. The only stress Tux has been having lately is when he has to go to the vet - he gets really stressed in the car. He wants to retest him for diabetes when he's thru with the Baytril.
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Traci
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Re: I spoke to the vet

Post by Traci »

LisaK wrote:When I asked if he WILL stop eating, he said I should not assume he WILL stop eating since he has been eating all along.
That may be true, however, you will need to watch him with an eagle eye for ANY signs of anorexia or decreased appetite, no matter how slight!
He also said as long as Tux is eating normally, he can stay on his regular food.
What are you currently feeding him?
I asked about the high protein/high calorie diet and he said they give KD or LD which is LOW protein because high protein can affect the liver.
Here is where I disagree with your vet. In the initial treatment of HL, we usually want to introduce a high protein, high calorie recovery diet. LOW-protein diet is used AFTER the crisis and when kitty is eating totally on his own, once the liver has regenerated, then a low-protein diet is used to maintain thereafter. But I don't know the protein content in the current diet, and don't know if significant weight loss has contributed to Tux's condition. I am assuming your vet feels this is a "mild" case because the labs didn't reveal most of the liver enzymes out of normal range. But, you need to be aware that they could elevate at any time during this point, during times of stress, during any change in eating habits, or change of hydration status. Right now, your vet may feel as long as he is eating, he can use an antibiotic approach and retest the liver enzymes next week or so. But, I wouldn't wait any longer than that to retest. Also watch for any signs of jaundice, vomiting, depression, withdrawal, etc.
Tux had a bile acid test last week - after fasting and after eating and it was in the normal range both times.
The bile acids really are not a significant marker in HL, the bile acids levels are usually indicative of hepatic obstruction, statsis, bile blockage, etc. or to diagnose severe liver disease or cholangiohepatitis or shunting. Liver enzymes you want to keep an eye on include ALT, AST, total protein, bilirubin, BUN, sometimes triglycerides and glucose. Speaking of glucose, I'm glad to hear your vet wants to retest because there is always the possibility of a secondary condition related to either the HL or FIV.

I just want to stress how important it is to watch Tux carefully and if you note anything unusual about his eating habits, attitude, drinking habits, dehydration, anything at all, no matter how slight, do not hesitate to contact your vet immediately in the event further treatment is warranted. HL can be a rapidly progressing disease if not closely monitored, and in some cats, it can take up to 6 months to fully recover, or to be out of the danger zone. Most cats recover sooner than that, but the treatment approach is most commonly a very agressive one.

Keep in constant contact with your vet, find out when the next labwork schedule is, and don't wait for him to call you, if he hasn't set up an appointment for those labs, be sure to call him and get it set up.
..........Traci
LisaK
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Location: Northern NJ

Ok............

Post by LisaK »

I will watch his eating habits with an eagle eye.

He likes to eat canned Fancy Feast - protein 11 and 12%. He has not lost ANY weight. He has always weighed 13-14 lbs.

He'll be going in next week for the glucose tests and I will tell him I want the liver tests done also.

Thanks for the advice - I appreciate it! :)
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