I have 5 persian cats. One of them is a 2 year old female calico that is PKD+ (polycystic kidney disease). Actually I just adopted her from a breeder who is a friend. I knew about her PKD+ diagnosis before I adopted her and I knew she was thin but I guess I didn't realize how thin until I picked her up from the airport. We are not sure if she is in active status of the PKD. The breeder I got her from says she believes the kitty is underweight because of a queen in the house that picked on her and wouldn't let her eat.
The first day I had the cat (Hallie) I took her to the vet. Hallie only weighed 4.8 lbs. Her BUN was very elevated and her Creat was a little above normal. I didn't have a UA done on her because of lack of funds but we will have that done on a return visit in a few weeks. I've had Hallie for one week now. I still have her in the spare room by herself so that I can monitor her intake and output and I think she is eating fairly well now. It took 4 days of constant encouragment and prodding her to eat! Right now she is on a mixture of Hills KD and regular whiskas canned food just because she needs the calories right now. She is eating maybe 3-5 oz a day now. Plus a shot of nutri-cal mixed with her food. I took her into the vet today for a weigh in and she stayed the same. I was dissapointed but the vet reminded me that it has only been a week and that she really looks much better.
I'm just worried about this sweet little girl. And I always feel like I'm not doing enough. There isn't tons of info on feline PKD out there either. I'm just hoping that her low weight is due to the stress of the queen picking on her at her old home and that she is not starting kidney failure. Anyone else out there have any experience with PKD kitties? Any encouraging stories or advice? Am I feeding her enough? She is pretty much free feeding. I make sure she has food all the time. When should I expect some weight gain?
Feline PKD
Re: Feline PKD
Have you seen this website yet?
http://www.felinepkd.com/
Also you might talk to the vet about the probiotic Fastrack, although I do not know if it would interfere with the PKD it does help to enhance the appetite.
http://www.felinepkd.com/
Also you might talk to the vet about the probiotic Fastrack, although I do not know if it would interfere with the PKD it does help to enhance the appetite.
The smallest feline is a masterpiece.
Leonardo da Vinci
Leonardo da Vinci
Personally I feel your breeder was very negligent by not seeing that this kitty had the proper nutrition. An excuse about a Queen picking on her shows a lack of responsibility for these anmials.I would be furious to have received in this condition.
The reason for the elevated BUN etc reasons may be due to her starving, and starting to have hepatic lipodosis (liver disease from not eating).I would treat this aggressively. What has the vet said about the bloodwork? Fluid support helps also, sub-q fluids to rebuild. A high calorie kitten food works very well too. The 3-5 0z per day is not enough food. My kitten eats half a can of wet and over 2/3 cup of dry food per day at 6 mos of age.
Good luck and I do hope this can be turned around.
Mona, Honeybun and Chloe
The reason for the elevated BUN etc reasons may be due to her starving, and starting to have hepatic lipodosis (liver disease from not eating).I would treat this aggressively. What has the vet said about the bloodwork? Fluid support helps also, sub-q fluids to rebuild. A high calorie kitten food works very well too. The 3-5 0z per day is not enough food. My kitten eats half a can of wet and over 2/3 cup of dry food per day at 6 mos of age.
Good luck and I do hope this can be turned around.
Mona, Honeybun and Chloe
Mona wrote:Personally I feel your breeder was very negligent by not seeing that this kitty had the proper nutrition. An excuse about a Queen picking on her shows a lack of responsibility for these anmials.I would be furious to have received in this condition.
The reason for the elevated BUN etc reasons may be due to her starving, and starting to have hepatic lipodosis (liver disease from not eating).I would treat this aggressively. What has the vet said about the bloodwork? Fluid support helps also, sub-q fluids to rebuild. A high calorie kitten food works very well too. The 3-5 0z per day is not enough food. My kitten eats half a can of wet and over 2/3 cup of dry food per day at 6 mos of age.
Good luck and I do hope this can be turned around.
Mona, Honeybun and Chloe
Please remember that I knew about this cat's condition before I agreed to take her. The breeder is not my breeder, but my friend. I was asked to take her because I have been very sucessful at bringing cat's to better health. But I've never had a PKD cat before so I was looking for some support. I know the breeder and she tried everything she could with this cat. She had 18 cats/kittens at the time and did have this cat to the vet every 2 weeks. I have the records. That is why she contacted me right away so that the cat could be cared for properly. Hallie had never weighed more then 7 lbs.
If your cat eats 1/2 can of wet food that is 2.75 oz (a can is 5.5 oz) + 3/4c dry food. And my cat is eating aprox 3-5 oz of wet food per day. Plus a little bit of high calorie supplement. I assume (and hope) your kitten is healthy. Hallie is not, she has a kidney disease and you can't compare what a healthy cat eats with a sick cat. I did ask the vet about high calorie food but that would be extremely hard on the kidneys and cause her to have more problems including earlier death. High calorie foods are not an option for Hallie. She is eating mostly wet food so that she also gets fluids. Hallie is drinking water well and nibbles on dry food. Her urnine output is very good and she is having normal bowel movements. So those are all good things!
My vet said that the BUN could be elevated because of slight dehydration, stress from being on 2 flights and 3 States on her way here. Her blood counts are excellent, she's not anemic, her phosphorous, glucose, calcium, cholesterol are all normal. So the vet said all those things are very positive and hopeful.
Thanks for the web link. Yes, I have seen that link. Unfortunately there is not a ton of info on it. I've read that link a dozen times before Hallie got here! LOL
Maybe I made a mistake by joining and posting here. I was hoping for support and maybe some sucess stories from people with similar experiences in feline kidney disease. I don't feel it does any good to blame others at this point. That won't change anything. All I can do is move forward and try to get this kitty as healthy as possible!
I am sorry you feel that way, but your cat is underweight, and you did state:
"The breeder I got her from says she believes the kitty is underweight because of a queen in the house that picked on her and wouldn't let her eat. "
I was only suggesting that the vet could be more agressive in treating your new kitty, with fluid support to rehydrate. You also stated that she had weighed 7 lbs and now weighs 4.8 lbs.
This link below describes the disease in detail and recommends an ultrasound procedure: http://www.fabcats.org/is32.html
Mona, HOneybun and Chloe
"The breeder I got her from says she believes the kitty is underweight because of a queen in the house that picked on her and wouldn't let her eat. "
I was only suggesting that the vet could be more agressive in treating your new kitty, with fluid support to rehydrate. You also stated that she had weighed 7 lbs and now weighs 4.8 lbs.
This link below describes the disease in detail and recommends an ultrasound procedure: http://www.fabcats.org/is32.html
Mona, HOneybun and Chloe
Yes I did say that! Anyone who knows about feline diseases (and even human) will understand that Kidney disease + Stress (Queen picking on cat) will = weight loss. And any vet that treats a cat such as Hallie much more aggressively then this should have his/her liscense pulled! You have to protect the kidneys. And she has had an ultrasound. Are you a vet? Would you like those details? I know the description of the disease. But even that site doesn't give details on feeding, monitoring etc. Not DETAILS. Again... I want support and encouragement!Mona wrote:I am sorry you feel that way, but your cat is underweight, and you did state:
"The breeder I got her from says she believes the kitty is underweight because of a queen in the house that picked on her and wouldn't let her eat. "
I was only suggesting that the vet could be more agressive in treating your new kitty, with fluid support to rehydrate. You also stated that she had weighed 7 lbs and now weighs 4.8 lbs.
This link below describes the disease in detail and recommends an ultrasound procedure: http://www.fabcats.org/is32.html
Mona, HOneybun and Chloe
Like I said, really all I wanted was some support . Not an arguement with finger pointing since that won't help my kitty at all.
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Tina B and crew
- Posts: 2536
- Joined: Fri Apr 25, 2003 9:48 am
- Location: Virginia
Re: Feline PKD
calm down mzjazz....Mona isn't trying to point fingers or imply guilt...she was only expressing her opinion on the subject and I have to agree with her to a point. Your cats weight problem COULD have been avoided I think if the cat had not had to deal with the stress of the queen intimidating her, but you are right, what is past is past and no use crying over spilled milk as the saying goes.
I would also agree that such a weight loss DOES need to be treated aggressively to avoid hepatic lipidosis (HL) which would bring you a whole new set of problems...and you don't need that on top of the kidney disease. I have not dealt with kidney disease in my own cats, thank goodness...but I have dealt with weight loss and HL. At least she is eating, that's one thing you have going for you...I would think that if she isn't gaining weight then she needs to be eating more. I do know the kidney disease can affect a cats eating habits as I petsit for one on occasion that is a CRF kitty. I have to coax this one to eat at times, however he is older than yours...at this point yours has youth going for her. Id guess that if she doesn't start gaining soon you need to look at why? I can't tell you if it's due to the kidney disease or due to stress...I take it from your post that the kitty had to travel a distance to get to you...between that, the former environment with the queen and being in new surroundings I'm sure she is stressed to the max. This is prime for developing HL...that would be my biggest concern. Has your vet not given you any advice on getting her weight up?
I would also agree that such a weight loss DOES need to be treated aggressively to avoid hepatic lipidosis (HL) which would bring you a whole new set of problems...and you don't need that on top of the kidney disease. I have not dealt with kidney disease in my own cats, thank goodness...but I have dealt with weight loss and HL. At least she is eating, that's one thing you have going for you...I would think that if she isn't gaining weight then she needs to be eating more. I do know the kidney disease can affect a cats eating habits as I petsit for one on occasion that is a CRF kitty. I have to coax this one to eat at times, however he is older than yours...at this point yours has youth going for her. Id guess that if she doesn't start gaining soon you need to look at why? I can't tell you if it's due to the kidney disease or due to stress...I take it from your post that the kitty had to travel a distance to get to you...between that, the former environment with the queen and being in new surroundings I'm sure she is stressed to the max. This is prime for developing HL...that would be my biggest concern. Has your vet not given you any advice on getting her weight up?
Tina B and "what a crew!"
How we behave towards cats here below determines our status in heaven ~Robert A. Heinlein
How we behave towards cats here below determines our status in heaven ~Robert A. Heinlein
Re: Feline PKD
Your posts are somewhat confusing. First you say that Hallie has PKD, but you are wondering if she is in "active" state. There is no true "active" state, it is a diagnosable condition. You also said she had been seen by a vet prior to your adopting her, said an ultrasound was done, and that labs looked good. However, you didn't say what any of it revealed.
Are the kidneys lumpy? Is Hallie exhibiting common signs of PKD? (distended abdomen, infection, pain, any signs of early renal failure?). Did the ultrasound reveal enlarged cysts or numerous cysts? Was bacterial infection diagnosed with aspiration of cyst fluids? Are the kidneys otherwise abnormally small or large?
The weight loss is hugely concerning and you can't assume it is caused by stress alone. Clearly, she has been previously diagnosed with PKD, but the question remains, is it true PKD (how was this diagnosed)......or is there a developing early renal impairment going undetected. In order to determine that, you need to follow up on bloodwork, urinalysis, and get a clearer answer on the kidneys as a whole. (if there are cysts, and numerous or large ones at that, they may require aspiration in order to relieve and attend common painful symptoms of this disease. Cysts also are generally infected, so various antibiotic or cephalosporin/penicillin-like drugs may need to be taken into serious consideration.) Without agressive treatment and maintenance of such cysts and bacterial infection, early renal failure is a high potential.
The drastic weight loss could be a combination of stress and the disease itself, however, you do need to rule out secondary problems that can occur with any primary disease process. Some primary diseases are accompanied by another disease, so it's imperative that you are not missing a clear diagnosis. You said Hallie never weighed over 7 lbs, but she is now at 4.8 lbs, that is a drastic loss and should not be contributed to stress alone. You need to find the cause and treat it aggressively and promptly.
As for the food issue, yes, ideally a low protein diet should be the general rule, but you also have to base this on her labs, the progression of the disease if any, and upon the symptoms she is and has been exhibiting, along with ruling out other potential concerns as the cause. There are various veterinary diets available for this purpose, available in canned form as well if she is not eating enough of the dry K/D, owners must often supplement with whatever works to serve the purpose. If she won't eat canned K/D, try Waltham's or Purina veterinary diets in canned form.
At this point, it's probably better she eats anything rather than nothing, and your vet has probably told you as much. But, again, if you don't know yet if she is in early renal failure, you don't know what diet is appropriate for her individual needs. This must be addressed immediately.
She could also probably benefit from sub-q fluids at home, given the BUN and dehydration status you mentioned. You need to discuss these options with your vet, and if they are not telling you how to manage this, you need to get a new opinion in order to diagnose and treat most effectively.
For what it's worth, you cannot afford to wait around on getting her evaluated on a frequent basis. If cystic infection sets in and it becomes septic, then the prognosis is not favorable and treatment becomes much more difficult and more costly. It is much better to follow up as the vet advises, followup on bloodwork and keeping an eye on cyst formation/bacterial infections and treating appropriately rather than waiting around to see what is going to happen next. Yes, this requires a committment on your part, but the disease can progress as rapidly as any other organ failure, and you can't take the risk of a sporadic treatment approach.
The bottom line here is ruling out other potential causes to her drastic weight loss and present failure to gain. I'm not sure you could contribute it to stress only, nor PKD alone. There could be another underlying cause here that needs to be addressed. At least you would have peace of mind for doing so.
Here is a link to Kathy James, DVM, a leading expert on kidney disease, you will find several other links to PKD in which to explore. If you are not getting enough information, encouragement or input from your vet, a second opinion is warranted so that you know what to expect.
Kathy James - Nephrology
Are the kidneys lumpy? Is Hallie exhibiting common signs of PKD? (distended abdomen, infection, pain, any signs of early renal failure?). Did the ultrasound reveal enlarged cysts or numerous cysts? Was bacterial infection diagnosed with aspiration of cyst fluids? Are the kidneys otherwise abnormally small or large?
The weight loss is hugely concerning and you can't assume it is caused by stress alone. Clearly, she has been previously diagnosed with PKD, but the question remains, is it true PKD (how was this diagnosed)......or is there a developing early renal impairment going undetected. In order to determine that, you need to follow up on bloodwork, urinalysis, and get a clearer answer on the kidneys as a whole. (if there are cysts, and numerous or large ones at that, they may require aspiration in order to relieve and attend common painful symptoms of this disease. Cysts also are generally infected, so various antibiotic or cephalosporin/penicillin-like drugs may need to be taken into serious consideration.) Without agressive treatment and maintenance of such cysts and bacterial infection, early renal failure is a high potential.
The drastic weight loss could be a combination of stress and the disease itself, however, you do need to rule out secondary problems that can occur with any primary disease process. Some primary diseases are accompanied by another disease, so it's imperative that you are not missing a clear diagnosis. You said Hallie never weighed over 7 lbs, but she is now at 4.8 lbs, that is a drastic loss and should not be contributed to stress alone. You need to find the cause and treat it aggressively and promptly.
As for the food issue, yes, ideally a low protein diet should be the general rule, but you also have to base this on her labs, the progression of the disease if any, and upon the symptoms she is and has been exhibiting, along with ruling out other potential concerns as the cause. There are various veterinary diets available for this purpose, available in canned form as well if she is not eating enough of the dry K/D, owners must often supplement with whatever works to serve the purpose. If she won't eat canned K/D, try Waltham's or Purina veterinary diets in canned form.
At this point, it's probably better she eats anything rather than nothing, and your vet has probably told you as much. But, again, if you don't know yet if she is in early renal failure, you don't know what diet is appropriate for her individual needs. This must be addressed immediately.
She could also probably benefit from sub-q fluids at home, given the BUN and dehydration status you mentioned. You need to discuss these options with your vet, and if they are not telling you how to manage this, you need to get a new opinion in order to diagnose and treat most effectively.
For what it's worth, you cannot afford to wait around on getting her evaluated on a frequent basis. If cystic infection sets in and it becomes septic, then the prognosis is not favorable and treatment becomes much more difficult and more costly. It is much better to follow up as the vet advises, followup on bloodwork and keeping an eye on cyst formation/bacterial infections and treating appropriately rather than waiting around to see what is going to happen next. Yes, this requires a committment on your part, but the disease can progress as rapidly as any other organ failure, and you can't take the risk of a sporadic treatment approach.
The bottom line here is ruling out other potential causes to her drastic weight loss and present failure to gain. I'm not sure you could contribute it to stress only, nor PKD alone. There could be another underlying cause here that needs to be addressed. At least you would have peace of mind for doing so.
Here is a link to Kathy James, DVM, a leading expert on kidney disease, you will find several other links to PKD in which to explore. If you are not getting enough information, encouragement or input from your vet, a second opinion is warranted so that you know what to expect.
Kathy James - Nephrology
..........Traci
Re: Feline PKD
I don't understand what is so confusing. I stated that Hallie is PKD+ and we're not sure if she is in an active stage of kidney disease yet. Here is information from the Feline PKD website that states that a cat can be diagnosed at an early age but the actual renal disease doesn't show up till usually later in life.
<<What does this disease cause in cats?
Polycystic Kidney Disease is a slowly progressive disease. It clinically shows up later in life (late onset), with enlarged kidneys and kidney dysfunction on average at seven years of age. The condition is inherited and cysts are present from birth. The size of cysts can vary from less than one millimetre to several centimetres, with older animals having larger and more numerous cysts. Problems occur when these cysts start to grow and progressively enlarge the kidney, reducing the kidneys' ability to function properly. The ultimate end is kidney failure.>>
So there she is PKD+ and does have kidney disease but is not yet in the progressive state of the disease. Her kidneys on exam, are not enlarged or painful at all.
Like I said, I was hoping for support , not flamming. Maybe Mona shouldn't have started off by making bad comments about my friend. We are doing the best we can and I was hoping to get stories from other pet owners who have gone through this. Obviously I was wrong. Please delete my thread and take me off your lists.
<<What does this disease cause in cats?
Polycystic Kidney Disease is a slowly progressive disease. It clinically shows up later in life (late onset), with enlarged kidneys and kidney dysfunction on average at seven years of age. The condition is inherited and cysts are present from birth. The size of cysts can vary from less than one millimetre to several centimetres, with older animals having larger and more numerous cysts. Problems occur when these cysts start to grow and progressively enlarge the kidney, reducing the kidneys' ability to function properly. The ultimate end is kidney failure.>>
So there she is PKD+ and does have kidney disease but is not yet in the progressive state of the disease. Her kidneys on exam, are not enlarged or painful at all.
Like I said, I was hoping for support , not flamming. Maybe Mona shouldn't have started off by making bad comments about my friend. We are doing the best we can and I was hoping to get stories from other pet owners who have gone through this. Obviously I was wrong. Please delete my thread and take me off your lists.
Re: Feline PKD
ok members, nothing to see here anymore...just move along. thanks.mzjazz2u wrote: Please delete my thread and take me off your lists.