Older dogs -hormone estrogen DES

[ragsjpause]

I don't know much about hormone therapy .. Are there any side-effects that I should be aware of when giving my dog, Rags, estrogen for dogs? (DES) .

Rags also has Cushing's and is taking Lysodren for it. She is around 16 years old, but doing really well, especially for her age. - The estrogen part is new .. to help with urination while sleeping.

I could probably deal with the urination thing without treatment if there were any possibility of damage to any organs. I guess lots of people take estrogen, so it's probably OK?

Thanks lots! - Patrick and Rags.

[davet]

you have to get to the lowest dose that is effective...i had patients on it for years with no problem but only at dosing maybe once a week depending on the weight of the dog...there are other substitutes for DES but none work as well. However i am not sure of any interaction between it and the other medications your dog is on...suspect your vet is aware of any interactions...but i sure used a lot of DES and made many dogs more welcome with out the urinating problem....

[Rachel]

Hi Patrick,

I don't know much about using DES for urinary incontinence in dogs, but I do have a friend who has a dog who has Cushing’s and who is being treated with Lysodren and her dog also had a problem similar to what you describe with Rags.

They checked for urinary tract infection and found none and they were hoping that once the cortisol levels were lowered enough with the Lysodren that the pee accidents at night would stop. The accidents became less frequent but didn’t stop completely after several months of Lysodren treatment.

I’m not 100% positive if I remember this correctly, but I think she told me that her Vet said that although DES (diethylstilbestrol) is one choice that may be used for urinary incontinence in dogs, it does have to be used at the lowest possible doses because at higher doses it might cause bone marrow suppression.

Her Vet said he prefers to use PPA (phenylpropanolamine) instead of DES to treat urinary incontinence, and that PPA is okay to use for Cushing’s dogs on Lysodren. So they have been treating with PPA and she says that the PPA has been very effective for her dog.

Your Vet knows your dog best, and may have a special reason for choosing to prescribe DES, but maybe you could ask your Vet what he/she thinks of using PPA instead of DES and what the advantages and disadvantages of both treatments for urinary incontinence would be?

Also to consider is that the urinary incontinence of Cushing's dogs may improve with no other treatments necessary at all once the cortisol levels have been effectively lowered with the Lysodren for a little while.

[davet]

advantage of DES is once or twice a week dosage vrs up to three times a day with PPA...Bone Marrow supression is a posibity with DES but that is when a daily to twice daily is used....would never happen on a weekly dose but again your vet on the scene can make thejudgement.....both work, i just got better results with DES

[ragsjpause]

Thanks Davet, That's good to know that it's widely used. I will double check with her doc about being the losest dose.

Thanks Rachel, ... I have heard of "PPA" in a board for Cushings... I'm not sure I want that one, but cannot remember what it was about. Meanwhile - You might be correct about the incontinence going away after a while. She has only been "under control" for Cushing's for two months. In this time it has only happened a few times. Before treatment it was happening much more frequently.

Maybe I could stop the DES after a couple of weeks to see how she does.

Thanks again, -Patrick and Rags.