We have had 2 kittens and their mom on the front porch living under a table...she was fine with that and so were we...but now they are venturing down the steps...one has a patch of fur gone from the top of her head...probably from a tumble down to the sidewalk...
and then this morning, I could not find one...I finally found him...in with their "aunt" and her two new babies...born yesterday morning...in a trash can full of leaves and debris that we had been collecting and got blown over...I put the kitten back where he belongs and soon enough, their aunt was chirping and nuzzling at him til he was back in with hers...
also....we could no longer leave Sammie out to enjoy the sunshine on the front sidewalk...the kittens might wander down to him and he "plays" too rough with them and hurts them...
Sooo...out came the 5 plastic shelves that got tied back together....a storage tote washed out and set on its side in there...tarp tied over about 1/3 of the top to give shade and protection from rain...and a fresh egg crate box bottom to lay in...they also have an old log to climb on and scratch on....and I found a shingle that blew off the roof for them to scratch at.....water and food dishes and they were set....
Except...Auntie Lightbulb (calico with a white tip on her tail) wanted to be in with them...so I finally went and got her 2 kittens...that I had put into a box on top of the leaves and debris...moved the box over to slide perfectly in beside the sideways storage tote,....and she was happy...almost....she wanted the storage tote with the egg crate bottom, so I moved her kittens over to that one and she was happy as can be nursing her two babies and watching her niece and nephew....
Sooo...I cut another egg crate bottom and put in the smaller box...and the two larger kittens curled up in there to sleep....
the two sister cats...with the two litters...have cared for each others litters anyways...and are close...I just need to keep an eye to make sure the larger ones do not want to nurse on the new mamma and steal milk from her babies...so far, even though they cuddled with her, they gave no interest in nursing...and they are eating hard kibble and drinking water...
After I cool off some, I will go take some pictures of the big happy family!
The Outside PlayPen is Once Again Erected
Re: The Outside PlayPen is Once Again Erected
If that's a tar shingle, don't put it in with the kittens, the tar is toxic, and will melt slightly in the heat, emitting extremely toxic fumes, and getting sticky. If it's a wood shingle, etc, it still shouldn't be in there (they could hurt themselves on edges, if the wood is treated, it's toxic, etc) Newborns and young kittens don't need anything to scratch on at this age.
..........Traci
Re: The Outside PlayPen is Once Again Erected
All are doing well...and the playpen area has grown...
have you ever seen a CAT that is a kitten hoarder?
Auntie Lightbulb...the mother of the 2 new ones, and aunt to the two older ones...became very fluistered and upset the other day when we heard a kitten crying desperately in the tall grass...
I carefully looked and found one lone gray kitten out there...watched quite a while and no others appeared...no mom....so I carried it over for Lightbulb...she was extatic to have it in her nest....
Hubby happened to be outside and saw a gray cat looking around that area...then back onto the screened porch, with a tear in the screen....back and forth....we wondered if it wa hers...so I went and got it...
Auntie Lightbulb ran after me...gray momma sniffed and started to chirp and lick her baby...she tried to pick it up to carry it back, but could not do so...so she was trying to nuzzle it along...but insead...Lightbulb came over....picked up the kitten and started to cary it back to HER nest...Hubby stopped her and took the kiten to give back to the gray mom...I had to hold Lightbulb to keep her from going after it again....
gray momma settled in the grass with her baby and I carried Lightbulb back to her babies...
However....since then....we found the other 3 gray mamma kittens...but she was wanting to keep the one separate and only take care of it..neglecting her other 3...she does not seem to be making a lot of milk, so I am supplimenting her and her babies with KMR...they are old enough and figuring out how to lap from a dish...
But a day later, since she was still semeing to be overwhelmed with 4 older kittens...I took that single kitten back to Lightbulb...and now the gray mamma is taking care of her other 3 again...I guess 4 was too much for her so she was choosing 1 or 3...
I also noticed that the one I did take back started to cry desperately and tighten up the first time it tried to drink KMR...I picked it up, rubbed its back and belly and it peed all down my arm and hands....good thing I wash....but it peed quite a lot...so not sure if she had even taken care of it in that area...but Lightbulb and her sister both started to lick and primp the kitten right away and the bloatedness has gone away and no more crying...
Lightbulb however, is taking care of everyone just fine...the 2 oldest (her niece and nephew) are not nursing at all..they just like to snuggle with her and their cousins...and today I found one of her babies actually out of the nesting box and wandering around on the ground...so they are doing well enough and quite strong too...
2 more spays and 2 more neuters will be happening this month...that will help...I won't do more than that at a time, and wait til they are totally healed in case of complications that will require more vet care...
have you ever seen a CAT that is a kitten hoarder?
Auntie Lightbulb...the mother of the 2 new ones, and aunt to the two older ones...became very fluistered and upset the other day when we heard a kitten crying desperately in the tall grass...
I carefully looked and found one lone gray kitten out there...watched quite a while and no others appeared...no mom....so I carried it over for Lightbulb...she was extatic to have it in her nest....
Hubby happened to be outside and saw a gray cat looking around that area...then back onto the screened porch, with a tear in the screen....back and forth....we wondered if it wa hers...so I went and got it...
Auntie Lightbulb ran after me...gray momma sniffed and started to chirp and lick her baby...she tried to pick it up to carry it back, but could not do so...so she was trying to nuzzle it along...but insead...Lightbulb came over....picked up the kitten and started to cary it back to HER nest...Hubby stopped her and took the kiten to give back to the gray mom...I had to hold Lightbulb to keep her from going after it again....
gray momma settled in the grass with her baby and I carried Lightbulb back to her babies...
However....since then....we found the other 3 gray mamma kittens...but she was wanting to keep the one separate and only take care of it..neglecting her other 3...she does not seem to be making a lot of milk, so I am supplimenting her and her babies with KMR...they are old enough and figuring out how to lap from a dish...
But a day later, since she was still semeing to be overwhelmed with 4 older kittens...I took that single kitten back to Lightbulb...and now the gray mamma is taking care of her other 3 again...I guess 4 was too much for her so she was choosing 1 or 3...
I also noticed that the one I did take back started to cry desperately and tighten up the first time it tried to drink KMR...I picked it up, rubbed its back and belly and it peed all down my arm and hands....good thing I wash....but it peed quite a lot...so not sure if she had even taken care of it in that area...but Lightbulb and her sister both started to lick and primp the kitten right away and the bloatedness has gone away and no more crying...
Lightbulb however, is taking care of everyone just fine...the 2 oldest (her niece and nephew) are not nursing at all..they just like to snuggle with her and their cousins...and today I found one of her babies actually out of the nesting box and wandering around on the ground...so they are doing well enough and quite strong too...
2 more spays and 2 more neuters will be happening this month...that will help...I won't do more than that at a time, and wait til they are totally healed in case of complications that will require more vet care...
Re: The Outside PlayPen is Once Again Erected
Why don't you keep the nesting boxes close together so all the moms and babies are nearly together - you could use a very large wood box (clean and not damp or treated etc), and see who does what. Chances are, every single kitten would be well cared for both by their respective moms as well as the other moms. You really have to ensure that each kitten is nursing, there is plenty of room for all moms to stretch out comfortably, and kittens have just a little bit of room to explore minimally at this age. Change bedding daily or twice daily if moms aren't doing potty duty for the kittens.
It is not unusual for surrogate moms to take on others' kittens, so try to find a huge clean suitable box, one that is also protected from the elements and predators, and see if they would all stay close together. The sides of the box must be high enough to keep the babes inside safely, yet also allow the moms to jump out of so they can do their own potty duty, exercise, etc.
Do not let the kittens wander on their own, they are prey for predators, (dogs, owls, raptors, etc), and are too young to venture out on their own, plus with such a heavy mom-duty taking care of so many kittens, the moms could be overwhelmed and not notice one might be wandering away.
It is not unusual for surrogate moms to take on others' kittens, so try to find a huge clean suitable box, one that is also protected from the elements and predators, and see if they would all stay close together. The sides of the box must be high enough to keep the babes inside safely, yet also allow the moms to jump out of so they can do their own potty duty, exercise, etc.
Do not let the kittens wander on their own, they are prey for predators, (dogs, owls, raptors, etc), and are too young to venture out on their own, plus with such a heavy mom-duty taking care of so many kittens, the moms could be overwhelmed and not notice one might be wandering away.
..........Traci
Re: The Outside PlayPen is Once Again Erected
Hopefully when all are done nursing, all moms & kittens can be taken in for spays and neuters. You still have funds from the Scooter donations for it right? This sounds like something that can go from 0 to 60 in one season.
Re: The Outside PlayPen is Once Again Erected
Cleo yes...funds are still available and I have 4 that will be done within the next couple of weeks...two females that both have lost their kittens. due to prematurity of either the kittens or the mammas just not taking care of them..and the two males that look to be the fathers of most of the kittens...then hopefully these mom's will be done nursing by the time those are healed and they can go in too!
The males I had neutered last fall are still hanging around and still actually fighting other toms off, and I am thankful for that...so I can just keep working on the current ones here...
Traci....that is my goal, to get them all together...I have a huge storage tote on its side in the playpen area...with a foam crate bottom in it...and then next to that a smaller box.......there is a plastic shelf across the top for a "roof"...and then the blue tarp goes from the ground up over the back, and I have it tied about half way across the entire playpen area, so the nesting area will stay completely dry, and there is additional coverage for shade....there is plenty of room for everyone....however, the gray mamma is not thrilled with her other 3 being moved yet...but I am working on that slowly....hopefully by the weekend she will be content to join the calico sisters in there with their babies...
Fortunately, the litters are not big....2-3 kittens each...but still 2-3 each too many!
The males I had neutered last fall are still hanging around and still actually fighting other toms off, and I am thankful for that...so I can just keep working on the current ones here...
Traci....that is my goal, to get them all together...I have a huge storage tote on its side in the playpen area...with a foam crate bottom in it...and then next to that a smaller box.......there is a plastic shelf across the top for a "roof"...and then the blue tarp goes from the ground up over the back, and I have it tied about half way across the entire playpen area, so the nesting area will stay completely dry, and there is additional coverage for shade....there is plenty of room for everyone....however, the gray mamma is not thrilled with her other 3 being moved yet...but I am working on that slowly....hopefully by the weekend she will be content to join the calico sisters in there with their babies...
Fortunately, the litters are not big....2-3 kittens each...but still 2-3 each too many!
Re: The Outside PlayPen is Once Again Erected
ggrrr...not sur eis she sensed an incoming storm or what....but we went out this morning to some kittens just...gone....one if the newborns was still in the box, along with 2 older ones...one newborn and one older one were gone...we waited...watched...waited....I put out food for everyone....Lighbulb did not appear....so finally took the younger one up to the bathroom to give it formula...and put it in a box with a warm bottle...
I took the youngest of the older ones...the one that the two mammas were "fighting" over the other day....and slipped it back in with its siblings and gray mamma seems fine with that....all 4 of them...and mamma...also got some formula....
Went back down and outside to do some yardwork...she suddenly appeared...I went and got the kitten and brought it to her....she carried it to the front sidewalk...laid down and nursed right there....then picked it up and started off the south side of the house...I followed her past the storm cellar...she kept going....I went as far as I could in shorts and slip on shoes befor I lost her in the wooded area out back....she eitehr wen farther or jumped the fence there where the neighbor has a camper and boat stored out back...
It is storming now so praying she has them safe...and when the neighbor gets home, I will go let him know and ask if hubby and I can go searching in his back yard for mamma and kittens...and if we find them....if he is okay with them staying there as she obviously feels safe...wherever she has taken them too
Thunde ris rumbling really good out there right now and it is DARK....sighs
I took the youngest of the older ones...the one that the two mammas were "fighting" over the other day....and slipped it back in with its siblings and gray mamma seems fine with that....all 4 of them...and mamma...also got some formula....
Went back down and outside to do some yardwork...she suddenly appeared...I went and got the kitten and brought it to her....she carried it to the front sidewalk...laid down and nursed right there....then picked it up and started off the south side of the house...I followed her past the storm cellar...she kept going....I went as far as I could in shorts and slip on shoes befor I lost her in the wooded area out back....she eitehr wen farther or jumped the fence there where the neighbor has a camper and boat stored out back...
It is storming now so praying she has them safe...and when the neighbor gets home, I will go let him know and ask if hubby and I can go searching in his back yard for mamma and kittens...and if we find them....if he is okay with them staying there as she obviously feels safe...wherever she has taken them too
Thunde ris rumbling really good out there right now and it is DARK....sighs
Re: The Outside PlayPen is Once Again Erected
Yep, was just about to tell you watch out for the storms, we had a few awful ones for 48 hours, non-stop and our NWS alarms on tv and radio were going off every 20 minutes. That's why those babies and moms need sturdy and sheltered boxes, so 60-75 MPH winds do not blow them away or pummel debris into them (not to mention rain and hail, and lightning and thunder are scary)
My guess is one of the moms chose to move the kittens elsewhere, they have incredible instincts when something isn't right (whether placement/area or weather elements etc), but do keep an eye out, listen closely for kitten mews etc.
I strongly advise to get 4 females spayed before considering any of the males, since it is kitten season and just when you think you're safe with no pregnant females, wham, you have more kittens. The males will be ok for now (but do get them neutered as soon as possible), it's most important to prevent the females from getting pregnant. Btw, each of those new moms can get pregnant again, immediately.
My guess is one of the moms chose to move the kittens elsewhere, they have incredible instincts when something isn't right (whether placement/area or weather elements etc), but do keep an eye out, listen closely for kitten mews etc.
I strongly advise to get 4 females spayed before considering any of the males, since it is kitten season and just when you think you're safe with no pregnant females, wham, you have more kittens. The males will be ok for now (but do get them neutered as soon as possible), it's most important to prevent the females from getting pregnant. Btw, each of those new moms can get pregnant again, immediately.
..........Traci
Re: The Outside PlayPen is Once Again Erected
I thought they could not get pregnant while nursing....or that you could spay them while they were nursing.....ugh!!
I keep debating 4 females or 2 and 2....then I think...well...if I get 2 males done...they cannot be impregnating any more while I am working on spays....
MOST of our cats around here are female...another big UGH....so I figure that doing the 2 and 2 will give me 2 less males to make more...especially since they do tend to hang around afterwards and chase newcomers away
the shelters we have are sturdy and have never blown away in any of our storms (yet...fingers crossed) So I am not sure if that was an issue...or maybe she wanted they away from the others...I just do not know...
I keep debating 4 females or 2 and 2....then I think...well...if I get 2 males done...they cannot be impregnating any more while I am working on spays....
MOST of our cats around here are female...another big UGH....so I figure that doing the 2 and 2 will give me 2 less males to make more...especially since they do tend to hang around afterwards and chase newcomers away
the shelters we have are sturdy and have never blown away in any of our storms (yet...fingers crossed) So I am not sure if that was an issue...or maybe she wanted they away from the others...I just do not know...
Re: The Outside PlayPen is Once Again Erected
Technically, the females could go into heat and mate any time after delivery. Yes, they can mate/get pregnant during nursing, and yes, you could spay a female while still nursing but I personally would not recommend doing so unless there was a health issue that warranted it. It's hard on moms to nurse after a spay, it's painful, and they can't risk infection.
The problem is that it's the females who produce the kittens. Males from other areas will come in to try to mate, regardless of the neutered males you already have. Do not ever assume you can stop a female in heat or a male wanting to mate. How many other intact female cats do you have, and when you can determine gender in the kittens, you'll see you'll have more females who can produce more kittens!
Ideally, the kittens and moms should be seperated from all males until the kittens are fully weaned, then spay the females.
Also, it is not just intact females that attract intact males, it is most likely also territory issues, food sources, etc. Regardless, it is best to spay the females before neutering the males.
The problem is that it's the females who produce the kittens. Males from other areas will come in to try to mate, regardless of the neutered males you already have. Do not ever assume you can stop a female in heat or a male wanting to mate. How many other intact female cats do you have, and when you can determine gender in the kittens, you'll see you'll have more females who can produce more kittens!
Ideally, the kittens and moms should be seperated from all males until the kittens are fully weaned, then spay the females.
Also, it is not just intact females that attract intact males, it is most likely also territory issues, food sources, etc. Regardless, it is best to spay the females before neutering the males.
..........Traci