Hello!
I'm new here but I have an emergency and a question. My 16 year old cat won't eat. I've made several rounds to vets and spent several hundred dollars but with no real diagnosis, only possibilities (irritable bowel disease, stomach cancer). He was diagnosed with high thyroid a month ago and has been on medication since, and those problems have disappeared (matty coat, vomiting).
However, 2 months ago he had his teeth cleaned and nose lasered (he's pink nosed and occasionally needs a laser swipe). It was right after that that he started taking a nose dive, losing weight like crazy, until finally last week he just stopped eating altogether. After all the rounds and being prescribed a special diet and prednisone, I was thinking... could his refusal to eat, even though he's clearly hungry, be a result of his nose lasering? Is it possible that he can't smell now and therefore won't eat?
He ate with relish at the vets when she introduced the special cat food, but then has barely picked at it since. The stuff is so expensive that I was only giving him a little bit and then refrigerating the rest. But then when I was thinking that it might have lost its smell and opened a new can, he ate it!
What do you guys think? Is it possible that I could be on to something? Sorry this is so long. Any feedback is appreciated. I can't seem to get my vets attention, they just want to do a biopsy on him which I don't think he is strong enough to survive.
Thank you so much!
Kim
SOS! Will cats not eat what they can't smell?
Re: SOS! Will cats not eat what they can't smell?
I'm confused when you say your kitty's nose "needs lasered".....for WHAT reason was this done, and how many times prior has it been done?
Also, just what tests have been done thus far...x-rays? Was an ultrasound offered you? If one or more of these vets are suggesting lymphoma or IBD, I'm afraid that additional diagnostics (and the cost) are probably necessary to confirm either condition. Lymphoma is difficult enough to diagnose without extensive diagnostics, but an ultrasound should have at least been offered you. As for IBD, the first thing you could try is discussing this with your vet and talk about a dietary approach, to one that contains only a specific source of protein kitty has never been exposed to, and you can also discuss the possible use of temporary prednisone to see if kitty responds, in which your vet can further investigate and/or confirm from there.
Please don't ration kitty's prescription diet due to cost alone, it's obvious your vet prescribed it for a reason. Feed it as the vet prescribed, and try warming it up slightly before feeding. If he isn't taking to this particular diet (what is it exactly?), ask your vet for a suitable alternative with another veterinary brand. Also talk to your vet about a potential bacterial infection (oral, secondary for whatever the reason).
Biopsy,.. where is the location the vet wants to biopsy? Do they want to do a fine-needle biopsy or did they suggest an exploratory surgery?
If you're not happy with your vet's approach, it's time to see a new vet, particularly a feline-only vet, or even an oncologist, given the suspicion of lymphoma. Not eating for a week is a serious matter, and the liver and kidney could be at risk, you can't risk that....please seek a second opion if you're not comfortable with your primary vet's treatment approach.
Also, just what tests have been done thus far...x-rays? Was an ultrasound offered you? If one or more of these vets are suggesting lymphoma or IBD, I'm afraid that additional diagnostics (and the cost) are probably necessary to confirm either condition. Lymphoma is difficult enough to diagnose without extensive diagnostics, but an ultrasound should have at least been offered you. As for IBD, the first thing you could try is discussing this with your vet and talk about a dietary approach, to one that contains only a specific source of protein kitty has never been exposed to, and you can also discuss the possible use of temporary prednisone to see if kitty responds, in which your vet can further investigate and/or confirm from there.
Please don't ration kitty's prescription diet due to cost alone, it's obvious your vet prescribed it for a reason. Feed it as the vet prescribed, and try warming it up slightly before feeding. If he isn't taking to this particular diet (what is it exactly?), ask your vet for a suitable alternative with another veterinary brand. Also talk to your vet about a potential bacterial infection (oral, secondary for whatever the reason).
Biopsy,.. where is the location the vet wants to biopsy? Do they want to do a fine-needle biopsy or did they suggest an exploratory surgery?
If you're not happy with your vet's approach, it's time to see a new vet, particularly a feline-only vet, or even an oncologist, given the suspicion of lymphoma. Not eating for a week is a serious matter, and the liver and kidney could be at risk, you can't risk that....please seek a second opion if you're not comfortable with your primary vet's treatment approach.
..........Traci
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Kim D
Re: SOS! Will cats not eat what they can't smell?
HI Tracy,
Thanks for all the information. The second vet I saw did think an ultrasound was in order, but there was no one in the clinic at that time to give one. No one said anything about lymphoma. The fine needle biopsy was suggested by the second vet. The first vet took x-rays of his abdomen and said she saw "a mass", but when I showed them to the second vet, she said they were too overexposed to see anything at all. Obviously I have a problem with the first vet (she is replacing my regular vet who is on sabbatical for a year).
The second vet game him several cans of IVD for the very reasons you listed. He likes it, but just doesn't eat very much of it. I got desperate yesterday and gave him tuna, which he ate quite a bit of, even though I wasn't supposed to alter his diet. I'm thinking it has something to do with the strong smell.
I will try heating up the IVD as you suggested. Also, you might be right about the secondary bacterial infection as all this started after he had his teeth cleaned and nose lasered. He is on 1mg of Ceph-drops twice a day right now, would this be good for a bacterial infection?
He has had his nose lasered only once before. By that I mean they run a laser pass over it because he gets very large scabs on the pink part which the vet called "a tumor." The first time was several years ago. The scabs get very large and then fall off, then start over again. It takes about 3 months for the whole process.
I leave you with these questions: are the cepha-drops good for a bacterial infection and is it true that cats won't eat what they can't smell. I really, really appreciate the help -- obviously I'm not getting very far with the vets around here. I wish my regular vet was still in town.
Thanks again,
Kim
Thanks for all the information. The second vet I saw did think an ultrasound was in order, but there was no one in the clinic at that time to give one. No one said anything about lymphoma. The fine needle biopsy was suggested by the second vet. The first vet took x-rays of his abdomen and said she saw "a mass", but when I showed them to the second vet, she said they were too overexposed to see anything at all. Obviously I have a problem with the first vet (she is replacing my regular vet who is on sabbatical for a year).
The second vet game him several cans of IVD for the very reasons you listed. He likes it, but just doesn't eat very much of it. I got desperate yesterday and gave him tuna, which he ate quite a bit of, even though I wasn't supposed to alter his diet. I'm thinking it has something to do with the strong smell.
I will try heating up the IVD as you suggested. Also, you might be right about the secondary bacterial infection as all this started after he had his teeth cleaned and nose lasered. He is on 1mg of Ceph-drops twice a day right now, would this be good for a bacterial infection?
He has had his nose lasered only once before. By that I mean they run a laser pass over it because he gets very large scabs on the pink part which the vet called "a tumor." The first time was several years ago. The scabs get very large and then fall off, then start over again. It takes about 3 months for the whole process.
I leave you with these questions: are the cepha-drops good for a bacterial infection and is it true that cats won't eat what they can't smell. I really, really appreciate the help -- obviously I'm not getting very far with the vets around here. I wish my regular vet was still in town.
Thanks again,
Kim
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Wanda51
Re: SOS! Will cats not eat what they can't smell?
I read your posts and am so sorry for what you are going through, I can offer very little other than compassion and to say you've come to the right place for help. I haven't been here long but have found everyone and especially Traci and Jason to be very helpful. I do think you are on to something about the smell though because my Dolly will not eat out of her bowl unless its clean, the other day I was in a rush and didn't wash her bowl and she just kept coming after me and taking me to her bowl, I couldn't figure out anything different except I remembered I didn't wash it first, so I threw away the food washed her bowl and refilled, she sniffed it then went to eating. Just hang in there and listen to Traci, she knows her stuff! Wanda
Re: SOS! Will cats not eat what they can't smell?
Kim, to answer your questions, yes, the cefa-drops should target any bacterial infection, but it wouldn't have been my first choice (I would have suggested amoxicillin or clavamox to start). Also remember that depending on when the cefa-drops were prescribed, if your kitty's appetite declined even moreso after, then ask your vet to consider a different antibiotic in the event kitty is too sensitive to the cefa-drops.
Yes, if kitty can't smell his food, he won't be as likely to eat. Warming up the food, crumbling a treat on top of it, adding a bit of tuna to entice, whatever you can think of to get him to eat.
As for the lasering, ask the vet who performed it if he has had other complaints of his patients being anorexic afterward. It's reaching, considering that laser surgery doesn't truly invade tissues as a conventional surgery would, but anything is possible. Are you talking about melanoma or what type of neoplasia was diagnosed? Is this an agressive type in that it could invade locally other than the pigmented skin, or is it another type altogether?
When I said lymphoma, this is what we commonly refer to when a "mass" is suspected. While there are various types of cancer, lymphoma, neoplasia, etc, when the stomach, intestines are involved, it is usually of the lymphoma type. (as the first vet suggested "cancer" to you, the stomach)
If the first vet felt she saw a mass on the x-ray and the second vet didn't, why didn't the second vet confirm with another x-ray? If the film was overexposed at all, the best thing to have done was get another, more clearer x-ray done at once, especially given the first vet's initial concern. Not trusting the first vet doesn't necessarily mean she wasn't thorough, she very well could have suspected something and without a clear film to offer the second vet, it was within the second vet's ability to get another x-ray to define if a mass was or was not evident.
I'm not sure I would proceed with a biopsy unless another x-ray clearly shows something significant. Since changes can occur between vet visits, now would be a good time to re-evaluate the potential for a mass with another x-ray. However, since you didn't mention vomiting, constipation or diarrhea, or any other signs other than anorexia, a mass may not be a concern at all, but I wouldn't want to leave it unchecked. One of the vets also needs to differentiate between mass vs inflammation (i.e., possibly IBD), and if kitty presented or soon presents other signs of illness, then an endoscopy might be in order at that point.
An oral bacterial infection is always a possibility, especially if any teeth were removed or abcesses, diseased teeth, etc were found during the dental. While this would seem the least of the problems, it's worth re-investigating for potential oral infection. I would also run this by the vet who did the laser procedure and find out if infection occured as a result. (is kitty's nose runny, sneezing, congested, etc?)
Lastly, were the thyroid levels checked recently, and did your vet ever feel the medications might need adjusting?
Yes, if kitty can't smell his food, he won't be as likely to eat. Warming up the food, crumbling a treat on top of it, adding a bit of tuna to entice, whatever you can think of to get him to eat.
As for the lasering, ask the vet who performed it if he has had other complaints of his patients being anorexic afterward. It's reaching, considering that laser surgery doesn't truly invade tissues as a conventional surgery would, but anything is possible. Are you talking about melanoma or what type of neoplasia was diagnosed? Is this an agressive type in that it could invade locally other than the pigmented skin, or is it another type altogether?
When I said lymphoma, this is what we commonly refer to when a "mass" is suspected. While there are various types of cancer, lymphoma, neoplasia, etc, when the stomach, intestines are involved, it is usually of the lymphoma type. (as the first vet suggested "cancer" to you, the stomach)
If the first vet felt she saw a mass on the x-ray and the second vet didn't, why didn't the second vet confirm with another x-ray? If the film was overexposed at all, the best thing to have done was get another, more clearer x-ray done at once, especially given the first vet's initial concern. Not trusting the first vet doesn't necessarily mean she wasn't thorough, she very well could have suspected something and without a clear film to offer the second vet, it was within the second vet's ability to get another x-ray to define if a mass was or was not evident.
I'm not sure I would proceed with a biopsy unless another x-ray clearly shows something significant. Since changes can occur between vet visits, now would be a good time to re-evaluate the potential for a mass with another x-ray. However, since you didn't mention vomiting, constipation or diarrhea, or any other signs other than anorexia, a mass may not be a concern at all, but I wouldn't want to leave it unchecked. One of the vets also needs to differentiate between mass vs inflammation (i.e., possibly IBD), and if kitty presented or soon presents other signs of illness, then an endoscopy might be in order at that point.
An oral bacterial infection is always a possibility, especially if any teeth were removed or abcesses, diseased teeth, etc were found during the dental. While this would seem the least of the problems, it's worth re-investigating for potential oral infection. I would also run this by the vet who did the laser procedure and find out if infection occured as a result. (is kitty's nose runny, sneezing, congested, etc?)
Lastly, were the thyroid levels checked recently, and did your vet ever feel the medications might need adjusting?
..........Traci
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Guest
Re: SOS! Will cats not eat what they can't smell?
Hi Traci and Wanda,
I really thank you both for the support. I am in a pretty bad way here.
Traci your opinions sound very close to mine. Anorexia crossed my mind but I didn't think it could be possible in a cat. However, I have some grim news.
I took him back to the vet yesterday. I took him to the "first vet", who works in the clinic I have been going to for 12 years. This time I insisted on seeing the head of the clinic, and not the vet who is replacing my regular one. I was really quite firm in my opinion that I did not believe there was anything wrong with his stomach (to backtrack here an answer your question of why the second vet didn't give another x-ray: there was no one there at that time to give one, but I knew it would be a waste of money anyway because I just knew there was nothing wrong with his stomach). I told the vet yesterday that I really thought there was something wrong with his nose.
He took me very seriously and did another blood test and smear. The results were quite different than they were on Jan 15, when the first vet studied his blood. As of yesterday his white count was very high (30,000?) and some other level was crashingly low. The pallix level? Something like that. Anyway he said it was at 12 and that my cat needed a transfusion. He also said the nuclei in the blood was very abnormal. His gums have turned very pale. I guess he is very anemic now and he said words like leukemia, bone marrow and things like that. I'm sorry I wasn't taking notes as my head was just swimming with this new information.
He did not see anything wrong with his nose or teeth or anything and did not concur with my feelings of bacterial infection along those lines but he did take new x-rays and agreed there was nothing wrong with his stomach.
The picture was so grim that I left the clinic with my cat and no blood transfusion as the pathology report will be back today. I was under the impression that no matter what, the picture is very dire and that a transfusion would only buy me a couple of weeks' time anyway. My cat has been through so much in the past couple of weeks. An overnight stay in the hospital would be miserable for him and I think he's better off at home. I hope I made the right decision.
He did not eat anything at all yesterday, even with all the tempting tricks.
You asked about thyroid: yes, he was diagnosed in November as hyperthyroid when he had a blood test before his teeth cleaning. The symptoms for that were chronic vomiting and matty coat. After three weeks into the thyroid medication he stopped vomiting and his coat started looking better. And that's what's so weird and confusing about all this. He started the thyroid pills about 2 weeks after the teeth cleaning. He stopped vomiting about 3 weeks after that but was still eating well. However that is when he started losing weight too. It was about 2 weeks after that that I noticed his weight was getting pretty low and he wasn't eating well. So there was a window of about 2 or 3 weeks where he was eating normally and not vomiting before he really started having these new problems of not eating and losing weight.
Now I'm wondering if there is any connection between the thyroid pills and his new problems.
I'm sorry I can't answer your question about what kind of neoplasia was going on with his nose. Back then I merely trusted my doctor and did not ask that kind of question. As far as I know there was no biospy performed on what was removed (a dark raised scab).
I thought as you did that perhaps a type of penicillin was more in order than the cefa-drops, but I left the clinic with him still on the prednisone and cefa-drops. He told me to stop the thyroid pills for some reason.
This all must sound so lame to you. It's just that I am so confused and shocked about all this that I don't know the right questions to ask when I'm seeing the vet. I think of the good questions afterwards, which is why I came to this forum. I really appreciate your help.
My cat is sitting here next to me but he is very weak. After what I was told yesterday I can't help but think the end is near, so I am just trying to make him as comfortable as possible. Fortunately I work from home so I can be with him all the time. I will get back to you with the pathology report today.
Thanks for listening. And thank you too Wanda for your concern.
Kim
I really thank you both for the support. I am in a pretty bad way here.
Traci your opinions sound very close to mine. Anorexia crossed my mind but I didn't think it could be possible in a cat. However, I have some grim news.
I took him back to the vet yesterday. I took him to the "first vet", who works in the clinic I have been going to for 12 years. This time I insisted on seeing the head of the clinic, and not the vet who is replacing my regular one. I was really quite firm in my opinion that I did not believe there was anything wrong with his stomach (to backtrack here an answer your question of why the second vet didn't give another x-ray: there was no one there at that time to give one, but I knew it would be a waste of money anyway because I just knew there was nothing wrong with his stomach). I told the vet yesterday that I really thought there was something wrong with his nose.
He took me very seriously and did another blood test and smear. The results were quite different than they were on Jan 15, when the first vet studied his blood. As of yesterday his white count was very high (30,000?) and some other level was crashingly low. The pallix level? Something like that. Anyway he said it was at 12 and that my cat needed a transfusion. He also said the nuclei in the blood was very abnormal. His gums have turned very pale. I guess he is very anemic now and he said words like leukemia, bone marrow and things like that. I'm sorry I wasn't taking notes as my head was just swimming with this new information.
He did not see anything wrong with his nose or teeth or anything and did not concur with my feelings of bacterial infection along those lines but he did take new x-rays and agreed there was nothing wrong with his stomach.
The picture was so grim that I left the clinic with my cat and no blood transfusion as the pathology report will be back today. I was under the impression that no matter what, the picture is very dire and that a transfusion would only buy me a couple of weeks' time anyway. My cat has been through so much in the past couple of weeks. An overnight stay in the hospital would be miserable for him and I think he's better off at home. I hope I made the right decision.
He did not eat anything at all yesterday, even with all the tempting tricks.
You asked about thyroid: yes, he was diagnosed in November as hyperthyroid when he had a blood test before his teeth cleaning. The symptoms for that were chronic vomiting and matty coat. After three weeks into the thyroid medication he stopped vomiting and his coat started looking better. And that's what's so weird and confusing about all this. He started the thyroid pills about 2 weeks after the teeth cleaning. He stopped vomiting about 3 weeks after that but was still eating well. However that is when he started losing weight too. It was about 2 weeks after that that I noticed his weight was getting pretty low and he wasn't eating well. So there was a window of about 2 or 3 weeks where he was eating normally and not vomiting before he really started having these new problems of not eating and losing weight.
Now I'm wondering if there is any connection between the thyroid pills and his new problems.
I'm sorry I can't answer your question about what kind of neoplasia was going on with his nose. Back then I merely trusted my doctor and did not ask that kind of question. As far as I know there was no biospy performed on what was removed (a dark raised scab).
I thought as you did that perhaps a type of penicillin was more in order than the cefa-drops, but I left the clinic with him still on the prednisone and cefa-drops. He told me to stop the thyroid pills for some reason.
This all must sound so lame to you. It's just that I am so confused and shocked about all this that I don't know the right questions to ask when I'm seeing the vet. I think of the good questions afterwards, which is why I came to this forum. I really appreciate your help.
My cat is sitting here next to me but he is very weak. After what I was told yesterday I can't help but think the end is near, so I am just trying to make him as comfortable as possible. Fortunately I work from home so I can be with him all the time. I will get back to you with the pathology report today.
Thanks for listening. And thank you too Wanda for your concern.
Kim
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Guest
Re: SOS! Will cats not eat what they can't smell?
PS: Right after I posted the last message my cat started eating his cat food! I wonder if this has something to do with him not taking any thyroid pills yesterday?
Kim
Kim
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Wanda51
Re: SOS! Will cats not eat what they can't smell?
Wow Kim, how overwhelmed you must feel. I am praying for you and kitty. I am certainly hoping things aren't as grim as they seem. Eating is definitely a plus, and you being able to be at home I am sure is very comforting for kitty. The calmer you can stay ( and I know that is very difficult) the better kitty will be I believe. I believe they can feel our tension and is somewhat harder on them. I know it is almost impossible for you not to be tore up inside and out, so just do the best you can. Kitty knows you love it and will be comforted by that. You may have said but have you tried putting alittle food on your finger and see if kitty will eat that way? Dolly loves to, she thinks she's special when I do that. I am sure you have tried about everything. Your instincts will help because you know kitty better than anyone. I wish you and kitty the best. Wanda
Re: SOS! Will cats not eat what they can't smell?
Kim, the other blood you mentioned was probably packed cell volume, which means when it is dangerously low as you describe (at 12), a blood transfusion is the first course of action. If this were my kitty, I would definately get the transfusion done and your vet can monitor the blood cell counts as this occurs. There are various causes to anemia such as this, it could be an immunological problem in which a full serology should have been done or to be done ASAP NOW. Such a serology would include testing for FELV, FIV, FIP, toxoplasmosis, Coombs, hemobart, other types of regenerative anemia. Even another closer examination on a blood smear might rule out hemobart, it's worth finding out right away.
At this point in time, see your vet again, discuss in detail what to expect from the transfusion, ask about getting kitty started on doxycycline right away, (probably continue prednisone and antibiotics). I do not want to give you false hope about the transfusion, as it may not be successful, but it's worth every try considering the packed cell volume (PCV) is so dangerously low. If it gets any lower, it will be nearly impossible to recover. I can't stress to you enough that the PCV is critical right now, and without treatment, the prognosis is not favorable.
I do not recommend a bone marrow aspirate, this would require anesthesia and I doubt your kitty could withstand anesthesia right now. Instead, opt for a feline serology and get feline infectious disease, hemobart ruled out quickly.
I realize much is lost in this translation, you are clearly upset, but please, take notes and discuss them thoroughly with your vet ASAP...only thing is, time is of the essence, the PCV can drastically decline from here and you don't want to face that. Your kitty will continue to decline, get weaker by the minute without agressive, prompt treatment. At this point, a transfusion may be your only option......don't wait another minute on this.
At this point in time, see your vet again, discuss in detail what to expect from the transfusion, ask about getting kitty started on doxycycline right away, (probably continue prednisone and antibiotics). I do not want to give you false hope about the transfusion, as it may not be successful, but it's worth every try considering the packed cell volume (PCV) is so dangerously low. If it gets any lower, it will be nearly impossible to recover. I can't stress to you enough that the PCV is critical right now, and without treatment, the prognosis is not favorable.
I do not recommend a bone marrow aspirate, this would require anesthesia and I doubt your kitty could withstand anesthesia right now. Instead, opt for a feline serology and get feline infectious disease, hemobart ruled out quickly.
I realize much is lost in this translation, you are clearly upset, but please, take notes and discuss them thoroughly with your vet ASAP...only thing is, time is of the essence, the PCV can drastically decline from here and you don't want to face that. Your kitty will continue to decline, get weaker by the minute without agressive, prompt treatment. At this point, a transfusion may be your only option......don't wait another minute on this.
..........Traci
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Guest
Re: SOS! Will cats not eat what they can't smell?
Ok Traci, thanks for staying with me on this. I will see how to arrange a transfusion. Meanwhile, have you ever heard of a cat having a toxic reaction to Tapazole? He started declining about when he started those pills, although he did stop vomiting. Now I'm wondering if the vomiting was from some kind of parasite. He wasn't tested for that at the time. I have never noticed anything unusual in his cat box or on him.
The blood work they did yesterday seemed very complete but they did not ask for a stool sample. I don't think they are thinking parasite. He did say that the feline leukemia test was negative, but then something about a virus and some other kind of leukemia. I asked if whatever he has could be contagious and he said no. He muttered a long list of checkpoints as he was reading the results and it seemed the only thing that came up bad was the packed cell count.
How dangerous is a blood transfusion? And is the fact that he's eating more today after not taking the Tapazole for about a day and a half any clue?
Thank you for everything. You are really helping me.
Kim
The blood work they did yesterday seemed very complete but they did not ask for a stool sample. I don't think they are thinking parasite. He did say that the feline leukemia test was negative, but then something about a virus and some other kind of leukemia. I asked if whatever he has could be contagious and he said no. He muttered a long list of checkpoints as he was reading the results and it seemed the only thing that came up bad was the packed cell count.
How dangerous is a blood transfusion? And is the fact that he's eating more today after not taking the Tapazole for about a day and a half any clue?
Thank you for everything. You are really helping me.
Kim