Christy, I know you've said you are following your vet's instructions and not dosing/treating on your own - that said, it concerns me about "someone bringing prednisolone" - this is a medication that requires the strict dosing and monitoring by your vet, and it requires dosing to be exact, then a very strict tapering - also, one cannot directly cease the use of prednisone as it can cause serious side effects, this is the reason for the tapering doses. Do not ever attempt to use this medication without your vet's explicit direction.
I'm concerned about the muscle tone in his rear legs, have you discussed that with your vet? What are his comments on that?
Talk with the vet about a different diet - he may need additional protein, although a too-high protein diet may not be appropriate for the condition at this point - your NYC vet may want to re-evaluate what you've been feeding Benny, and I'd prefer you ask him about a hypoallergenic diet if IBD and diarrhea are concerns. Tell him your concerns about the rear leg muscle tone or muscle loss. IBD usually requires a novel-protein source diet anyway, and a hypoallergenic diet may be a good idea for Benny. One option would be Hill's Rx Z/D, comes in both canned and dry form.
Cat liver issues
Re: Cat liver issues
..........Traci
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christymexico
- Posts: 97
- Joined: Mon Feb 27, 2012 1:21 am
- Location: mexico
Re: Cat liver issues
My vet in NYC whom I speak with at least every other day recommended that i continue with prednisolone (not prenisone) every other day at a 12mg dose..he had been on a 3 week course 2xs a day then down to once a day every other day.
He responded well.
Unfortunately, my dr assumed we could get prednasolone here so he only sent us with 130 pills ,
We ran out and my vet sent , to a kind person whom i met online from our local cat shelter, is bringing it down.
for that reason we are off of prednisolone for the past 8 days now. she will arrive monday, tomorrow.
I have spoken with My vet about the leg weakness..yes, while in NYC we tried every kind, wet and dry , prescription and non of alternative protein .
benny refused it all
the only thing he will eat is fancy feast. this gives him diareah.
the only food that does not, which is what he is on now. is royal canine for intestine.
I steam him chicken breast occasionally as a treat, as anything else at all will cause diareah.
Once again, I only go by the advise and direction of my vet. He recommended to continue the pred..i mentioned i noticed the hind legs and asked if this was from the pred.
Benny seems to be doing fine without the steroid, he is still eating and his bowels are even more solid without it. we continue with the 50mg of ursodial and the denamarin which this kind lady is also bringing us some more of..I did not bring enough down last trip , i did not know this will be a forever drug. I do not like to medicate my animals much. Benny had never even had a blood test until sept of his 12th year of life..He has not been sick a day.
thank you again for all the help
I will again ask about the back legs
Christy
He responded well.
Unfortunately, my dr assumed we could get prednasolone here so he only sent us with 130 pills ,
We ran out and my vet sent , to a kind person whom i met online from our local cat shelter, is bringing it down.
for that reason we are off of prednisolone for the past 8 days now. she will arrive monday, tomorrow.
I have spoken with My vet about the leg weakness..yes, while in NYC we tried every kind, wet and dry , prescription and non of alternative protein .
benny refused it all
the only thing he will eat is fancy feast. this gives him diareah.
the only food that does not, which is what he is on now. is royal canine for intestine.
I steam him chicken breast occasionally as a treat, as anything else at all will cause diareah.
Once again, I only go by the advise and direction of my vet. He recommended to continue the pred..i mentioned i noticed the hind legs and asked if this was from the pred.
Benny seems to be doing fine without the steroid, he is still eating and his bowels are even more solid without it. we continue with the 50mg of ursodial and the denamarin which this kind lady is also bringing us some more of..I did not bring enough down last trip , i did not know this will be a forever drug. I do not like to medicate my animals much. Benny had never even had a blood test until sept of his 12th year of life..He has not been sick a day.
thank you again for all the help
I will again ask about the back legs
Christy
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christymexico
- Posts: 97
- Joined: Mon Feb 27, 2012 1:21 am
- Location: mexico
Re: Cat liver issues
in mexico only prednisone is available..prednisolone is only in suspension here.
My vet overnites all my meds from his inhouse pharmacy to whomever I can find to bring it down.
I am unable to receive medication from another country in the mail and cannot afford to fly home each time, so I rely on others to bring what my vet sends them.
We have another blood test for the 3rd of june..so i will know more then.
My vet overnites all my meds from his inhouse pharmacy to whomever I can find to bring it down.
I am unable to receive medication from another country in the mail and cannot afford to fly home each time, so I rely on others to bring what my vet sends them.
We have another blood test for the 3rd of june..so i will know more then.
Re: Cat liver issues
If you have access to the suspension prednisolone, that would be fine (just be sure the dose is correct). Cats generally do better on prednisolone rather than prednisone when long-term treatment is needed. Prednisolone doesn't need to be converted by the body like prednisone needs to be. Another thing about long-term use of either the prednisone or prednisolone is that if ceased too soon, symptoms or facets of prior disease can re-emerge because they were sort of dormant while the cat was on prednisone/prednisolone. The every other day dosing was ideal, and the best approach for long-term use. Remember, Benny may require treatment for a few to several months so the bile ducts/liver can regenerate.
If IBD is a problem, and he refuses some of the foods you've attempted, try a low-fat or high fiber diet - either of these should help with the diarrhea. The Fancy Feast may contain more fat that Benny is normally used to. Stools should correct when on a low-fat or high-fiber diet. Neither has to be a prescription diet, although the prescription diets are generally better for long-term use in treatment and are formulated specifically for the condition. Ask your vet about his opinion on what brand or type of low fat or high fiber diet would benefit Benny (prescription vs store-bought, etc).
There really aren't too many problems with using Ursodial long-term, although ideally and hopefully, he can be weaned off of it in time. The biggest problem with ursodial is if there is a bile duct obstruction, I'm assuming your vet doesn't feel that was ever a problem.
It's possible Benny may need another short course of antibiotics, and even though we're hesitant to do this again, sometimes it is necessary because in IBD (or cholangiohepatitis for that matter), the intestine is prone to bacterial infection. I don't know if a stool sample would help in determining that at this point, but you can certainly ask your vet about testing a stool sample, to see if a short course of maybe the metronidazole could be used again, just in case of an intestinal infection.
The pred may or may not have caused the muscle weakness, but most likely not - pred can cause "tiredness" but it is more like inactivity due to combatting the liver and IBD problems. Nonetheless, I would bring this up again with the vet next time you talk to him, you certainly do not want this to progress.
Remember also, the pred can alter bloodwork, so always keep that in mind. The liver values should be improving though, let's hope for a good report next time bloodwork is done.
If IBD is a problem, and he refuses some of the foods you've attempted, try a low-fat or high fiber diet - either of these should help with the diarrhea. The Fancy Feast may contain more fat that Benny is normally used to. Stools should correct when on a low-fat or high-fiber diet. Neither has to be a prescription diet, although the prescription diets are generally better for long-term use in treatment and are formulated specifically for the condition. Ask your vet about his opinion on what brand or type of low fat or high fiber diet would benefit Benny (prescription vs store-bought, etc).
There really aren't too many problems with using Ursodial long-term, although ideally and hopefully, he can be weaned off of it in time. The biggest problem with ursodial is if there is a bile duct obstruction, I'm assuming your vet doesn't feel that was ever a problem.
It's possible Benny may need another short course of antibiotics, and even though we're hesitant to do this again, sometimes it is necessary because in IBD (or cholangiohepatitis for that matter), the intestine is prone to bacterial infection. I don't know if a stool sample would help in determining that at this point, but you can certainly ask your vet about testing a stool sample, to see if a short course of maybe the metronidazole could be used again, just in case of an intestinal infection.
The pred may or may not have caused the muscle weakness, but most likely not - pred can cause "tiredness" but it is more like inactivity due to combatting the liver and IBD problems. Nonetheless, I would bring this up again with the vet next time you talk to him, you certainly do not want this to progress.
Remember also, the pred can alter bloodwork, so always keep that in mind. The liver values should be improving though, let's hope for a good report next time bloodwork is done.
..........Traci
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christymexico
- Posts: 97
- Joined: Mon Feb 27, 2012 1:21 am
- Location: mexico
Re: Cat liver issues
I did not know the pred will alter the bloods. How so?
Yes, I felt him really good all over today and his muscles all over his body are pretty much non existent. Hes so bony, but he plays outside and runs daily when I walk him. I am giving a chicken breast steamed in addition to royal canine now. maybe the extra protein will help.
I am still concerned it is cancer.
When my blind kitty jumps on his back legs he screams in pain and runs off..but when he sees a lizzard in yard he goes basically flying across trying to catch it..
I just am at a loss at to such muscle atrophy and why..
The pred arrives tomorrow...suspension and benny do not work well together. he just hates it too much for me to torture him with, that is why i opted to wait the 9 days for her to arrive.
I can take in a stool sample when i drive the blood to the new vet. Wont hurt to check it
Thanks again,
Christy
Yes, I felt him really good all over today and his muscles all over his body are pretty much non existent. Hes so bony, but he plays outside and runs daily when I walk him. I am giving a chicken breast steamed in addition to royal canine now. maybe the extra protein will help.
I am still concerned it is cancer.
When my blind kitty jumps on his back legs he screams in pain and runs off..but when he sees a lizzard in yard he goes basically flying across trying to catch it..
I just am at a loss at to such muscle atrophy and why..
The pred arrives tomorrow...suspension and benny do not work well together. he just hates it too much for me to torture him with, that is why i opted to wait the 9 days for her to arrive.
I can take in a stool sample when i drive the blood to the new vet. Wont hurt to check it
Thanks again,
Christy
Re: Cat liver issues
Have you been able to talk to the vet about the muscle loss? Why do you think he's so bony? You've until this point, indicated he is maintaining his weight. So, is he underweight? Any chance you can post a picture of him?
For the record, some lizards are poisonous, please don't let Benny chase or eat them.
For the record, some lizards are poisonous, please don't let Benny chase or eat them.
..........Traci
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christymexico
- Posts: 97
- Joined: Mon Feb 27, 2012 1:21 am
- Location: mexico
Re: Cat liver issues
sure I can post a picture. can I do it here?
Yes I mentioned it and he kinda eh'd me...hes eating well, no diareah..
enny was always very strong, a giant cat really..his paws are enormous..he feels like all the muscle has just disappeared of his body. he is uncomfortable now when i pick him up. all his life i carried him around, walk him everywhere on a leash..so his non=touchiness is out of character for him.hes always slept with me and been right with me. now he doesnt.
I am not sure. He is the same weight as he was in nyc 3 months ago..around 11 pounds..this down from 16, which is his normal.
his fur is not slick to his body its patchy.
I don't know what it is honestly, I am at a loss. With the pred, he ate more, that is for sure but never seemed to gain weight/muscle back.
He doesnt seem to feel bad, just tired.
He vomited the past week 2 times of bile and grass in middle of night. that he has never done . She arrives tonite with pred so he will go back on it tonite and back onto the every other day..
I am concerned about his lack of muscle tone. When i pick him up to put him on table his back legs shake a bit..so i massage them but he meows..im at a loss.
Yes I mentioned it and he kinda eh'd me...hes eating well, no diareah..
enny was always very strong, a giant cat really..his paws are enormous..he feels like all the muscle has just disappeared of his body. he is uncomfortable now when i pick him up. all his life i carried him around, walk him everywhere on a leash..so his non=touchiness is out of character for him.hes always slept with me and been right with me. now he doesnt.
I am not sure. He is the same weight as he was in nyc 3 months ago..around 11 pounds..this down from 16, which is his normal.
his fur is not slick to his body its patchy.
I don't know what it is honestly, I am at a loss. With the pred, he ate more, that is for sure but never seemed to gain weight/muscle back.
He doesnt seem to feel bad, just tired.
He vomited the past week 2 times of bile and grass in middle of night. that he has never done . She arrives tonite with pred so he will go back on it tonite and back onto the every other day..
I am concerned about his lack of muscle tone. When i pick him up to put him on table his back legs shake a bit..so i massage them but he meows..im at a loss.
Re: Cat liver issues
In order to post pictures, your image must reside on a webserver (image hosting site). For detailed instructions on how to post an image:
How to post pictures
http://www.cathelp-online.com/forums/vi ... php?t=1540
There are several free image hosting sites on the net. If you need help, let me know through a Private Message to me.
It may not be an issue for Benny at this point, since he hadn't been on prednisone long, however, I want to mention that some cats can develop diabetes with high doses or long-term use of pred. The rear leg weakness/wobbliness etc, if potential diabetes, could be a symptom, it's called diabetic neuropathy. It occurs due to uncontrolled high glucose levels, but it is treatable. When you go for Benny's next bloodwork, please ask the vet about also doing a blood AND urine glucose check. Ruling out potential diabetes would be a smart thing to do right now. A urinalysis can cover checking urine glucose, as well as other markers like bilirubin and protein, which can also coincide with the liver function - those can also be used in conjunction with the bloodwork parameters for bilirubin, protein, the liver enzymes etc. for a better picture of liver, bile duct, glucose or even kidney function -all helping your vet determine if Benny is responding to treatment or if something else needs to be addressed.
Another rule-out, as we discussed before, the diet - such as a potential vitamin/mineral deficiency - such as potassium. While I don't think Fancy Feast is necessarily a bad food, I don't recommend feeding it as the only staple diet. I would still recommend trying the Hill's Rx Z/D, or, a low-fat or high fiber diet for Benny. Just because he doesn't like or won't eat one veterinary diet brand, doesn't mean you should not try another, in fact, the options are there to compare and where one is not palatable to the cat, another veterinary brand may be.
How to post pictures
http://www.cathelp-online.com/forums/vi ... php?t=1540
There are several free image hosting sites on the net. If you need help, let me know through a Private Message to me.
It may not be an issue for Benny at this point, since he hadn't been on prednisone long, however, I want to mention that some cats can develop diabetes with high doses or long-term use of pred. The rear leg weakness/wobbliness etc, if potential diabetes, could be a symptom, it's called diabetic neuropathy. It occurs due to uncontrolled high glucose levels, but it is treatable. When you go for Benny's next bloodwork, please ask the vet about also doing a blood AND urine glucose check. Ruling out potential diabetes would be a smart thing to do right now. A urinalysis can cover checking urine glucose, as well as other markers like bilirubin and protein, which can also coincide with the liver function - those can also be used in conjunction with the bloodwork parameters for bilirubin, protein, the liver enzymes etc. for a better picture of liver, bile duct, glucose or even kidney function -all helping your vet determine if Benny is responding to treatment or if something else needs to be addressed.
Another rule-out, as we discussed before, the diet - such as a potential vitamin/mineral deficiency - such as potassium. While I don't think Fancy Feast is necessarily a bad food, I don't recommend feeding it as the only staple diet. I would still recommend trying the Hill's Rx Z/D, or, a low-fat or high fiber diet for Benny. Just because he doesn't like or won't eat one veterinary diet brand, doesn't mean you should not try another, in fact, the options are there to compare and where one is not palatable to the cat, another veterinary brand may be.
..........Traci
-
christymexico
- Posts: 97
- Joined: Mon Feb 27, 2012 1:21 am
- Location: mexico
Re: Cat liver issues
well the urinalysis last week showed no glucose.
yes, i had diabetic dog so I know the symptoms..when all this first started it was identical so i assumed benny had diabetes.
we tried all the brands my vet had and all the brands of 2 diff pet stores..i bought a can of each flavor and nothing but a nibble.
I will be in the usa june 6th so will bring more back. Z was my vets first choice also..or any other alternative protein..
with the special intestine diet he does well..it is by royal canin...he just wont eat it unless i smear it with fancy feast..(thimble full)..which i do .
he does eat the other cats calorie control by royal canine also with no problem
I had read the hairball formula also is an alternate protein...royal canin is my only choice here in mexico and in canned only comes recovery or urinary formulas. so dry food is what he eats. my vet wants me to keep him on intestine by royal because he tolerates it well.
I have a vitamin gel that i bought but he said its mostly sugar..I will continue with the one breast steamed chicken each night for now.
Once he is back on the pred he eats alot more..He will have been on it 2 months ..off 9 days and back on it ...i had hoped my vet would want to stop it but he thinks he tolorates it well and hes doing good..so keep him on it..he almost didnt prescribe it but thought it well over and decided since the chonlangiohep was not bacteria based to go for it..im glad he did..it helped benny feel good..feel free to check out my vet..dr lawrence putter of lennox hill vet clinic in manhattan..hes a great super smart compassionate loving vet. We are lucky to have him in our lives..It is hard to be so far away from good vet care..its heartbreaking really.
Benny is still drinking alot of water..this was his first symptom to me that something was wrong in sept....
but he seems to feel fine..so i am treating the patient and giving him alot of love and extra care right now.
Also, how will the pred effect the bloods..?
thanks
christy
yes, i had diabetic dog so I know the symptoms..when all this first started it was identical so i assumed benny had diabetes.
we tried all the brands my vet had and all the brands of 2 diff pet stores..i bought a can of each flavor and nothing but a nibble.
I will be in the usa june 6th so will bring more back. Z was my vets first choice also..or any other alternative protein..
with the special intestine diet he does well..it is by royal canin...he just wont eat it unless i smear it with fancy feast..(thimble full)..which i do .
he does eat the other cats calorie control by royal canine also with no problem
I had read the hairball formula also is an alternate protein...royal canin is my only choice here in mexico and in canned only comes recovery or urinary formulas. so dry food is what he eats. my vet wants me to keep him on intestine by royal because he tolerates it well.
I have a vitamin gel that i bought but he said its mostly sugar..I will continue with the one breast steamed chicken each night for now.
Once he is back on the pred he eats alot more..He will have been on it 2 months ..off 9 days and back on it ...i had hoped my vet would want to stop it but he thinks he tolorates it well and hes doing good..so keep him on it..he almost didnt prescribe it but thought it well over and decided since the chonlangiohep was not bacteria based to go for it..im glad he did..it helped benny feel good..feel free to check out my vet..dr lawrence putter of lennox hill vet clinic in manhattan..hes a great super smart compassionate loving vet. We are lucky to have him in our lives..It is hard to be so far away from good vet care..its heartbreaking really.
Benny is still drinking alot of water..this was his first symptom to me that something was wrong in sept....
but he seems to feel fine..so i am treating the patient and giving him alot of love and extra care right now.
Also, how will the pred effect the bloods..?
thanks
christy
Re: Cat liver issues
Any meds can affect blood parameters, and if they are unusual, the vet usually takes the meds into account. But, in Benny's case, I suspect the liver enzymes will remain abnormal for a little while longer, even though you should expect to see them improve (which is why I always hope you can be in regular contact with your NYC vet for his opinion). The liver enzymes will not be too affected by pred, but rather affected by the cholagiohepatitis.
I must have misunderstood, you had first stated Benny wouldn't eat his prescription diet, only the Fancy Feast. If he is in fact eating his intestinal formula diet, then continue with it - there's no harm in giving a tiny amount of Fancy Feast mixed in to get him to eat. Although you might try a dish without the fancy feast mixed in because some cats only need that enticer temporarily then actually start eating their intended food.
Drinking lots of water could indicate dehydration, which I've mentioned before. Anytime there is a liver problem going on, dehydration usually accompanies it. Even though you may feel he isn't dehydrated, some cats actually are, so that is why I suggested the sub-q fluids during the first initial treatment. Likewise, prednisone can cause increased thirst and appetite, which also leads to increased urination (side effects of pred).
I must have misunderstood, you had first stated Benny wouldn't eat his prescription diet, only the Fancy Feast. If he is in fact eating his intestinal formula diet, then continue with it - there's no harm in giving a tiny amount of Fancy Feast mixed in to get him to eat. Although you might try a dish without the fancy feast mixed in because some cats only need that enticer temporarily then actually start eating their intended food.
Drinking lots of water could indicate dehydration, which I've mentioned before. Anytime there is a liver problem going on, dehydration usually accompanies it. Even though you may feel he isn't dehydrated, some cats actually are, so that is why I suggested the sub-q fluids during the first initial treatment. Likewise, prednisone can cause increased thirst and appetite, which also leads to increased urination (side effects of pred).
..........Traci