Cat Arthritis
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mamabear
- Formerly mamaof4soon
- Posts: 589
- Joined: Wed Apr 18, 2007 10:39 pm
- Location: The Garden State
Re: Cat Arthritis
I have to agree whole heartedly with Traci. You and Cutie Pie deserve so much better. Orthopedist is the right choice and if he won't give you a name of someone he likes then go find one yourself. Call around to other vets and ask them. Tell them the situation and see if they can help you find someone that they can you in to see soon. If this can be treated and fixed it is so worth it. That Vet had no right to bandaid this at all. Again shame on him.
Almost 7 years in remission from Graves disease and no meds!
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leslks@aol.com
- Posts: 72
- Joined: Thu Oct 16, 2003 9:59 am
Re: Cat Arthritis
Cutie's blood tests were fine. Her xrays are about the same.
Vet showed me Cosequin capsules. Not all Cosequin is equal. I may try it. He didn't use it to start with because it does not help pain. He mentioned cortisone injection. My Mom and Grandmother used to get them for their knees.
Metacam is used as an injectable in cats and has been for years in other countries. The reason they have to say it isn't in the US is because it isn't approved here for cats.
All vets use things off label. I know from first hand experience. When Blondie was diagnosed with multiple myloma he used cancer meds for people. It is a very rare disease in cats.
Vet showed me Cosequin capsules. Not all Cosequin is equal. I may try it. He didn't use it to start with because it does not help pain. He mentioned cortisone injection. My Mom and Grandmother used to get them for their knees.
Metacam is used as an injectable in cats and has been for years in other countries. The reason they have to say it isn't in the US is because it isn't approved here for cats.
All vets use things off label. I know from first hand experience. When Blondie was diagnosed with multiple myloma he used cancer meds for people. It is a very rare disease in cats.
Lynda
Re: Cat Arthritis
What do you mean "not all Cosequin is equal"???
Cosequin for Cats is just that, it is designed and formulated for cats. Were you actually referring to glucosamine and chondroitin in other products? If so, you're right, and none of them equal Cosequin's safety level, level of purity and gaurantee and backing by the manufacturer. Always be leary of over-the-counter glucosamine and chondroitin products because chances are, they are not formulated correctly, and do not actually contain the amounts or levels or combination stated on the package (this has been researched and found that a large percentage of products do not contain what they say they do)
As I mentioned previously, Cosequin for Cats does not work for every cat, and it can take time to note improvement on it. But, the availability makes it a good choice and it's safety margin is unsurpassed by other brands. Reducing the inflammation reduces the pain, please remember that. Only thing is, in Cutie Pie's situation, I suspect there is more to the condition than your vet can manage, nor diagnose properly.
Regardless of Cosequin is right for Cutie Pie or not, you need to seek the opinion of a veterinary orthopedic, and make sure OTHER problems have been ruled out. All of the symptoms you describe are NOT typical of general arthritis in a cat.
No, metacam is NOT approved for use in cats in the manner your vet has prescribed. Read the literature, and read where it specifically states the manufacturer does NOT recommend use in that manner. Please also familiarize yourself with the use of NSAIDS in cats and their risks, particularly when used long term, the liver and kidney function can be severely compromised with ANY NSAID.
Off-label use of drugs and medications does NOT always mean it is good practice and does NOT mean this is necessarily the right thing to do for YOUR cat's particular needs. Your vet continues to bandaid the situation and he is NOT working to resolve the problem. How does this help Cutie Pie and is that fair to her?
Steroids, cortisone injections, etc are NOT WITHOUT RISKS, and your vet is subjecting Cutie Pie to long-term contraindications and putting her at risk for immunosuppression. How is this addressing the situation?
Consider the price to see an orthopedic vet or surgeon to get a new and fresh opinion on Cutie Pie's inflammation problem. Consider they may consider other treatment more effective (or surgery to correct the problem). Consider weighing the costs in the long term, vs bandaid approaches with considerable risks when using steroids long term, and having her constantly in pain because the CONDITION WAS NEVER ADDRESSED or TREATED PROPERLY.
I'm sorry if my frustration is showing through, but you've asked us several times for help, and the best thing you can do for Cutie Pie is get a new exam/diagnostics from a qualified orthopedic vet to address the inflammation properly and so that effective treatment can be started. The longer you allow your current vet to treat with steroids, the worse the condition is going to get, and the more pain she will suffer. Is that helping Cutie Pie?
Cosequin for Cats is just that, it is designed and formulated for cats. Were you actually referring to glucosamine and chondroitin in other products? If so, you're right, and none of them equal Cosequin's safety level, level of purity and gaurantee and backing by the manufacturer. Always be leary of over-the-counter glucosamine and chondroitin products because chances are, they are not formulated correctly, and do not actually contain the amounts or levels or combination stated on the package (this has been researched and found that a large percentage of products do not contain what they say they do)
As I mentioned previously, Cosequin for Cats does not work for every cat, and it can take time to note improvement on it. But, the availability makes it a good choice and it's safety margin is unsurpassed by other brands. Reducing the inflammation reduces the pain, please remember that. Only thing is, in Cutie Pie's situation, I suspect there is more to the condition than your vet can manage, nor diagnose properly.
Regardless of Cosequin is right for Cutie Pie or not, you need to seek the opinion of a veterinary orthopedic, and make sure OTHER problems have been ruled out. All of the symptoms you describe are NOT typical of general arthritis in a cat.
No, metacam is NOT approved for use in cats in the manner your vet has prescribed. Read the literature, and read where it specifically states the manufacturer does NOT recommend use in that manner. Please also familiarize yourself with the use of NSAIDS in cats and their risks, particularly when used long term, the liver and kidney function can be severely compromised with ANY NSAID.
Off-label use of drugs and medications does NOT always mean it is good practice and does NOT mean this is necessarily the right thing to do for YOUR cat's particular needs. Your vet continues to bandaid the situation and he is NOT working to resolve the problem. How does this help Cutie Pie and is that fair to her?
Steroids, cortisone injections, etc are NOT WITHOUT RISKS, and your vet is subjecting Cutie Pie to long-term contraindications and putting her at risk for immunosuppression. How is this addressing the situation?
Consider the price to see an orthopedic vet or surgeon to get a new and fresh opinion on Cutie Pie's inflammation problem. Consider they may consider other treatment more effective (or surgery to correct the problem). Consider weighing the costs in the long term, vs bandaid approaches with considerable risks when using steroids long term, and having her constantly in pain because the CONDITION WAS NEVER ADDRESSED or TREATED PROPERLY.
I'm sorry if my frustration is showing through, but you've asked us several times for help, and the best thing you can do for Cutie Pie is get a new exam/diagnostics from a qualified orthopedic vet to address the inflammation properly and so that effective treatment can be started. The longer you allow your current vet to treat with steroids, the worse the condition is going to get, and the more pain she will suffer. Is that helping Cutie Pie?
..........Traci
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leslks@aol.com
- Posts: 72
- Joined: Thu Oct 16, 2003 9:59 am
Re: Cat Arthritis
I DID NOT ALLOW my vet to treat with steroids. That is one suggestion he made.
He thinks NutraMax is the best Cosequin. You will probably disagree.
Money is not the problem. The problem is trusting surgeons whose main thing is surgery. I will consider seeing one.
He thinks NutraMax is the best Cosequin. You will probably disagree.
Money is not the problem. The problem is trusting surgeons whose main thing is surgery. I will consider seeing one.
Lynda
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leslks@aol.com
- Posts: 72
- Joined: Thu Oct 16, 2003 9:59 am
Re: Cat Arthritis
Traci,
I appreciate all of your opinions. I have to figure it all out.
Here is what the AAHA has to say about NSAIDS.
Pain Management for Pets
Decades ago in veterinary medicine, pain was thought to be good for an injured or sick animal. This wasn't because veterinarians were cruel or wanted pets to suffer; they believed that pain helped keep animals sufficiently quiet in order to heal. Plus, it was thought that there really wasn't any way to know whether a pet was feeling pain or needed some relief. Today it's just the opposite: some veterinarians now believe they should treat for pain until there is proof that an animal isn't hurting.
Why it's important to manage your pet's pain
Pain management has become an important issue in veterinary medicine, with organizations such as the University of Tennessee College of Veterinary Medicine Center for the Management of Animal Pain, the Colorado State University College of Veterinary Medicine, the Humane Society of the United States, and the Companion Animal Pain Management Consortium studying pain and pain management in animals. Studies like these have shown that by helping your pet avoid pain you may be able to speed the recovery process, whether from surgery or injury. Best of all, because it reduces stress and increases a sense of well being, pain management may even help your furry friend live longer.
Different kinds of pain
Acute pain comes on suddenly as a result of an injury, surgery, or an infection. It can be extremely uncomfortable for your pet and it may limit her mobility. The good news is that it's usually temporary. It generally goes away when the condition that causes it is treated.
Chronic pain is long lasting and usually slow to develop. Some of the more common sources of chronic pain are age-related disorders such as arthritis, but it can also result from illnesses such as cancer or bone disease. This pain may be the hardest to deal with, because it can go on for years, or for an animal's entire lifetime. Also, because it develops slowly, some animals may gradually learn to tolerate the pain and live with it. This can make chronic pain difficult to detect.
How to know when your pet is hurting
When we have pain, we complain. However, we generally don't hear a peep out of our pets. So how do you know when your pet's in pain?
Because our furry friends aren't able to tell us when something is wrong, it's important for you, the owner, to take note of any change in their behavior. Look for any of the following signs
they may be your pet's way of saying "I hurt."
Being unusually quiet, listless, restless, or unresponsive
Whining, whimpering, howling, or constantly meowing
Biting
Constantly licking a particular part of the body
Acting funny and out of character, either aggressively or submissively
Flattening ears against the head Having trouble sleeping or eating
Seeking a lot more affection than usual
If you suspect your pet might be hurting, ask your veterinarian to help you figure out the problem and to talk about what options are available. Be prepared to answer questions about your pet's behavior, activity level, and tolerance for being handled. Your critter's mobility is also crucial. Does Rover have a hard time getting up off his haunches or negotiating stairs (which was never a problem before)? Does Fluffy no longer jump up on to the furniture or have a hard time hopping back down?
Some critters never show signs of pain, but that doesn't mean they aren't feeling it. In these cases, if the injury, illness, or experience is one that sounds painful to you, go with the assumption that it may also hurt your pet and get to your veterinarian.
What you can do to help
First and foremost, a complete physical exam by your veterinarian is needed, possibly including lab and blood tests or X rays. Veterinarians will usually recommend physical therapy, drug treatment, or in more serious cases, surgery. There also are some simple things you can do at home to help keep your pet comfortable and to monitor whether her pain level is changing. (Check with your veterinarian first to make sure these won't harm your pet.)
Massaging your pet from head to toe will help relax and soothe him. This organized form of petting is a great way to bond with your buddy as well as to notice any unusual bumps, scrapes, or bruises on the body.
Watch for changes in how your pet responds to exercise. If he's acting sluggish, you may need to reduce his activity, or it may mean that chronic pain is developing. His ability to exercise will depend on his health, however, so make sure he has a thorough veterinary physical before he starts a new exercise program. (For more information on exercising your pet, see Exercising your Pet.)
Watch his diet. What you feed your little friend will help maintain his weight, regularity, and physical health, all of which can affect how well he feels. Don't let your pet overeat and don't let yourself over-treat him. Also, with certain conditions, your pet may need a special diet. Consult your veterinarian before you make any dietary changes.
Treatment choices and considerations
The standard form of treatment for pain is with medication. There are new and varied forms of prescriptions currently available. Aside from pill form, many drugs come in easily administered forms such as liquids, skin patches or gels. There are also new analgesic (pain-reducing) products to help treat your pet after an injurious trauma or to help treat chronic pain. Traditionally, steroids have been used for anti-inflammatory purposes and to decrease pain, but they can have adverse side effects. Although effective, steroids generally aren't used for prolonged periods, and it is crucial that you dispense them following your veterinarian's instructions. Additionally, nonsteroidal anti-inflammatory drugs (NSAIDS) are often used to treat orthopedic-related pain with fewer side effects.
I appreciate all of your opinions. I have to figure it all out.
Here is what the AAHA has to say about NSAIDS.
Pain Management for Pets
Decades ago in veterinary medicine, pain was thought to be good for an injured or sick animal. This wasn't because veterinarians were cruel or wanted pets to suffer; they believed that pain helped keep animals sufficiently quiet in order to heal. Plus, it was thought that there really wasn't any way to know whether a pet was feeling pain or needed some relief. Today it's just the opposite: some veterinarians now believe they should treat for pain until there is proof that an animal isn't hurting.
Why it's important to manage your pet's pain
Pain management has become an important issue in veterinary medicine, with organizations such as the University of Tennessee College of Veterinary Medicine Center for the Management of Animal Pain, the Colorado State University College of Veterinary Medicine, the Humane Society of the United States, and the Companion Animal Pain Management Consortium studying pain and pain management in animals. Studies like these have shown that by helping your pet avoid pain you may be able to speed the recovery process, whether from surgery or injury. Best of all, because it reduces stress and increases a sense of well being, pain management may even help your furry friend live longer.
Different kinds of pain
Acute pain comes on suddenly as a result of an injury, surgery, or an infection. It can be extremely uncomfortable for your pet and it may limit her mobility. The good news is that it's usually temporary. It generally goes away when the condition that causes it is treated.
Chronic pain is long lasting and usually slow to develop. Some of the more common sources of chronic pain are age-related disorders such as arthritis, but it can also result from illnesses such as cancer or bone disease. This pain may be the hardest to deal with, because it can go on for years, or for an animal's entire lifetime. Also, because it develops slowly, some animals may gradually learn to tolerate the pain and live with it. This can make chronic pain difficult to detect.
How to know when your pet is hurting
When we have pain, we complain. However, we generally don't hear a peep out of our pets. So how do you know when your pet's in pain?
Because our furry friends aren't able to tell us when something is wrong, it's important for you, the owner, to take note of any change in their behavior. Look for any of the following signs
they may be your pet's way of saying "I hurt."
Being unusually quiet, listless, restless, or unresponsive
Whining, whimpering, howling, or constantly meowing
Biting
Constantly licking a particular part of the body
Acting funny and out of character, either aggressively or submissively
Flattening ears against the head Having trouble sleeping or eating
Seeking a lot more affection than usual
If you suspect your pet might be hurting, ask your veterinarian to help you figure out the problem and to talk about what options are available. Be prepared to answer questions about your pet's behavior, activity level, and tolerance for being handled. Your critter's mobility is also crucial. Does Rover have a hard time getting up off his haunches or negotiating stairs (which was never a problem before)? Does Fluffy no longer jump up on to the furniture or have a hard time hopping back down?
Some critters never show signs of pain, but that doesn't mean they aren't feeling it. In these cases, if the injury, illness, or experience is one that sounds painful to you, go with the assumption that it may also hurt your pet and get to your veterinarian.
What you can do to help
First and foremost, a complete physical exam by your veterinarian is needed, possibly including lab and blood tests or X rays. Veterinarians will usually recommend physical therapy, drug treatment, or in more serious cases, surgery. There also are some simple things you can do at home to help keep your pet comfortable and to monitor whether her pain level is changing. (Check with your veterinarian first to make sure these won't harm your pet.)
Massaging your pet from head to toe will help relax and soothe him. This organized form of petting is a great way to bond with your buddy as well as to notice any unusual bumps, scrapes, or bruises on the body.
Watch for changes in how your pet responds to exercise. If he's acting sluggish, you may need to reduce his activity, or it may mean that chronic pain is developing. His ability to exercise will depend on his health, however, so make sure he has a thorough veterinary physical before he starts a new exercise program. (For more information on exercising your pet, see Exercising your Pet.)
Watch his diet. What you feed your little friend will help maintain his weight, regularity, and physical health, all of which can affect how well he feels. Don't let your pet overeat and don't let yourself over-treat him. Also, with certain conditions, your pet may need a special diet. Consult your veterinarian before you make any dietary changes.
Treatment choices and considerations
The standard form of treatment for pain is with medication. There are new and varied forms of prescriptions currently available. Aside from pill form, many drugs come in easily administered forms such as liquids, skin patches or gels. There are also new analgesic (pain-reducing) products to help treat your pet after an injurious trauma or to help treat chronic pain. Traditionally, steroids have been used for anti-inflammatory purposes and to decrease pain, but they can have adverse side effects. Although effective, steroids generally aren't used for prolonged periods, and it is crucial that you dispense them following your veterinarian's instructions. Additionally, nonsteroidal anti-inflammatory drugs (NSAIDS) are often used to treat orthopedic-related pain with fewer side effects.
Lynda
In a post some time ago, you said:
At that time, you asked about surgery, and I advised you seek an orthopedic vet or orthopedic surgeon to rule out other potential problems. From that time until now, you have not sought an orthopedic vet nor orthopedic surgeon, nor explored further diagnostics.
I am repeating myself from that very first post.
You said, this time:
Cosequin for Cats IS MADE BY Nutramax Labs, which is what I recommended in the first place.
And no, veterinary orthopedic surgeons do not always recommend surgery, but one thing they DO is orthopedics specifically, and perform diagnostics and recommend treatments they are familiar with, unlike it seems, your vet who has not managed Cutie Pie's problem, in at least 4 years?
What is the harm in getting a consult/second opinion for a MORE QUALIFED vet, whether that vet is an orthopedic vet or orthopedic surgeon, either will have qualifications that your vet does not. Again, isn't Cutie Pie worth it? Isn't resolving the inflammation and pain worth it? Isn't a second opinion by a qualifed vet worth it? Don't you think 4 years or more of inflammation and pain has been enough for her?
FWIW, I'm familiar with pain management, the drugs used in pain management, etc. But, your vet seems to be on a steroid-kick, and without a clear understanding of what he's treating, he's only putting Cutie Pie at risk, and has been, for 4 years. Think about it, if surgery could resolve the inflammation and unusual bone formation, imagine how much better Cutie Pie would feel. Get the consult/opinions and get them NOW, before too much damage is done, if it hasn't been already.
Steroids WERE given. Now your vet wants to give cortisone shots, which ARE STEROIDS.She had xrays in 2003 and last year, cortisone shot, pred. but we need to find something that will work. Would surgery to remove some bone be too drastic?
At that time, you asked about surgery, and I advised you seek an orthopedic vet or orthopedic surgeon to rule out other potential problems. From that time until now, you have not sought an orthopedic vet nor orthopedic surgeon, nor explored further diagnostics.
I am repeating myself from that very first post.
You said, this time:
I'm not familiar with this, but it obviously has not worked. Is it due to poor formulation, omission of glucosamine or chondroitin or? Did your vet evaluate the brand? Check research or studies on it?I have tried Projointin since July. Don't notice any results there either.
Cosequin for Cats IS MADE BY Nutramax Labs, which is what I recommended in the first place.
And no, veterinary orthopedic surgeons do not always recommend surgery, but one thing they DO is orthopedics specifically, and perform diagnostics and recommend treatments they are familiar with, unlike it seems, your vet who has not managed Cutie Pie's problem, in at least 4 years?
What is the harm in getting a consult/second opinion for a MORE QUALIFED vet, whether that vet is an orthopedic vet or orthopedic surgeon, either will have qualifications that your vet does not. Again, isn't Cutie Pie worth it? Isn't resolving the inflammation and pain worth it? Isn't a second opinion by a qualifed vet worth it? Don't you think 4 years or more of inflammation and pain has been enough for her?
FWIW, I'm familiar with pain management, the drugs used in pain management, etc. But, your vet seems to be on a steroid-kick, and without a clear understanding of what he's treating, he's only putting Cutie Pie at risk, and has been, for 4 years. Think about it, if surgery could resolve the inflammation and unusual bone formation, imagine how much better Cutie Pie would feel. Get the consult/opinions and get them NOW, before too much damage is done, if it hasn't been already.
..........Traci
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leslks@aol.com
- Posts: 72
- Joined: Thu Oct 16, 2003 9:59 am
Re: Cat Arthritis
Traci,
Let me try to clear this up.
The vet in 2003 is not who we have seen since 2004. That quack was horrible. She also treated her staff with acupucture. I made sure the vet board took care of her on that.
Cutie is not receiving cortisone. One injection 4½ years ago is hardly overdoing.
I am getting referrals right now for an Ortho Surgeon.
Thanks.
Let me try to clear this up.
The vet in 2003 is not who we have seen since 2004. That quack was horrible. She also treated her staff with acupucture. I made sure the vet board took care of her on that.
Cutie is not receiving cortisone. One injection 4½ years ago is hardly overdoing.
I am getting referrals right now for an Ortho Surgeon.
Thanks.
Lynda
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leslks@aol.com
- Posts: 72
- Joined: Thu Oct 16, 2003 9:59 am
Re: Cat Arthritis
Ask the new vet about Cosequin for Cats, but before you use this, ask the new vet for new xrays and evaluation, because it may be something else altogether (very well could be since it isn't responding to what your vet has done). Please find a vet who is very experienced in orthopedic veterinary medicine.
You didn't specify who made it until I just mentioned NutraMax. Anyway, glad you agree with my vet on which is the best.
You didn't specify who made it until I just mentioned NutraMax. Anyway, glad you agree with my vet on which is the best.
Lynda
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leslks@aol.com
- Posts: 72
- Joined: Thu Oct 16, 2003 9:59 am
Re: Cat Arthritis
Traci,
I got referrals from a vet service for 3 orthop surgeons. I called the vet board to check on them. One killed a cat regarding a tumor and the other has had 2 complaints. Turns out she is just a surgeon. I don't know if that qualifies her as a ortho surgeon but I wouldn't think so.
The third one is yet to be determined because the referral spelled the name wrong. I called the hosp and got the right spelling. Now the lady wasn't available at the vet bd. I left her a message.
See what I mean about I don't know who to trust?
I got referrals from a vet service for 3 orthop surgeons. I called the vet board to check on them. One killed a cat regarding a tumor and the other has had 2 complaints. Turns out she is just a surgeon. I don't know if that qualifies her as a ortho surgeon but I wouldn't think so.
The third one is yet to be determined because the referral spelled the name wrong. I called the hosp and got the right spelling. Now the lady wasn't available at the vet bd. I left her a message.
See what I mean about I don't know who to trust?
Lynda