It's been a while but here I am again to update the saga of Alley and Midnight.
(Alley, our boy resident is 11 and Midnight, our new girl addition is 1 and a half.)
If you folks remember we took in Midnight around Thanksgiving - and they hated each other. In the beginning Midnight was bullying Alley. Now Alley is the bully and he is a SCREAMER. We read all the books and forums and tried everything including - Feliway (we're on our second refill), Rescue Remedy and a couple of the other Flower Essences, an animal therapist, Kitty Prozac (by the third day of that Alley was uncontrollably vicious so we stopped that), Bottled Blessings No Bully and New Kitty in food and water, kava, Ttouch, positive reinforcement, more love than any cats have ever had, and even crystals - yes, Alley has a crystal next to him when he sleeps - its supposed to calm him.
Have they helped? Except for the prozac and kava I'm still doing all of them. I hope they're helping.
On Day 64 Alley's armor began to crack and I saw some hope in that boy. He smacked her about 5 times and things have been a little better since. Alley is able to get himself to food and the bathroom by himself now - I had to carry him back and forth up until then. They still are separated at night.
Today is Day 71 - they actually passed each other in the hall without bloodshed, and actually slept within 2 feet of each other - well, each sleeping with one eye open. Major accomplishment anyway. So things are looking better but my kids still don't like each other.
It has been a horrible experience for the whole family, but......
we love Midnight and Alley and believe this can work.
Alley's Mom
Update on Alley and Midnight - Day 71
Re: Update on Alley and Midnight - Day 71
Alley's mom, thanks for the update.
However, I can't let this go without saying, none of the alternative methods you are using, work. Period. I'm sorry, but this is wishful thinking, and is only serving to to rob your pocketbook, and MANY alternative substances are NOT without harm to animals, including kava! Please, I urge you to cease using these things, for the safety of your cats.
However, I can't let this go without saying, none of the alternative methods you are using, work. Period. I'm sorry, but this is wishful thinking, and is only serving to to rob your pocketbook, and MANY alternative substances are NOT without harm to animals, including kava! Please, I urge you to cease using these things, for the safety of your cats.
..........Traci
Re: Update on Alley and Midnight - Day 71
I have to agree with Traci on the holistic stuff....while I do some "natural therapy" of my own...as far as chiropractic and suppliments are concerned...when it comes ot my critters, it is a traditional veterinarian only...too many things that may work for humans do NOT work for critters....
My degree is in horticulture and I seriously thought of going into homeopathic medicine (for humans) as well, so know that I DO know at least a little bit about plants
However, I also know when traditional medicine is the way to go...
Kava Kava is a plant within the pepper family...it is a psychoactive substance and I would not even want to use it on ME let alone on one of my pets, so I am glad that you stopped that at least!!!
This animal therapist...how much is s/he charging a session?....Please do not waste any more of your $$$ save it to spend on creature comforts for your kitties and maybe separate beds and play areas, their own climbing trees or something..until they learn to accept each other....and know that they might never accept each other, they just may live forever tolerating each other...
Touch therapy...TTouch....well heck....almost all critters loved to be touched...to be petted....so whether you are stroking your kitty while he or she is laying on your lap...or paying someone to teach you how to do it right...you kitty is happy because it is being petted....
Again...do not spend any more money on touch therapy...just pet your kitties as they will allow you to do....
Hopefully, day by day, things will continue to improve....
My degree is in horticulture and I seriously thought of going into homeopathic medicine (for humans) as well, so know that I DO know at least a little bit about plants
However, I also know when traditional medicine is the way to go...
Kava Kava is a plant within the pepper family...it is a psychoactive substance and I would not even want to use it on ME let alone on one of my pets, so I am glad that you stopped that at least!!!
This animal therapist...how much is s/he charging a session?....Please do not waste any more of your $$$ save it to spend on creature comforts for your kitties and maybe separate beds and play areas, their own climbing trees or something..until they learn to accept each other....and know that they might never accept each other, they just may live forever tolerating each other...
Touch therapy...TTouch....well heck....almost all critters loved to be touched...to be petted....so whether you are stroking your kitty while he or she is laying on your lap...or paying someone to teach you how to do it right...you kitty is happy because it is being petted....
Again...do not spend any more money on touch therapy...just pet your kitties as they will allow you to do....
Hopefully, day by day, things will continue to improve....
Re: Update on Alley and Midnight - Day 71
Hello,
I have to clear up a couple of things.
This situation has been under the constant vigilance of our vets. Both have known exactly everything that has happened.
Kava - I've had three vets over the past 10-15 years give me kava for at least 3 pets. It works but I've never given it more than a day or two.
The animal behaviorist came free of charge (2 consultations) - I live near the Cornell Vet School.
Ttouch was a library book.
Homeopathy - those products were mine - I've relied on them for many years and for the cats I only used cat-sized portions.
Bottled Blessings were recommended by our local SPCA - that's what they use.
Feliway was recommended by both vets and the behaviorist.
The prozac was free - well came included with the vet visit.
And the crystal just looks nice in the window.':D'
Alley's Mom
I have to clear up a couple of things.
This situation has been under the constant vigilance of our vets. Both have known exactly everything that has happened.
Kava - I've had three vets over the past 10-15 years give me kava for at least 3 pets. It works but I've never given it more than a day or two.
The animal behaviorist came free of charge (2 consultations) - I live near the Cornell Vet School.
Ttouch was a library book.
Homeopathy - those products were mine - I've relied on them for many years and for the cats I only used cat-sized portions.
Bottled Blessings were recommended by our local SPCA - that's what they use.
Feliway was recommended by both vets and the behaviorist.
The prozac was free - well came included with the vet visit.
And the crystal just looks nice in the window.':D'
Alley's Mom
Re: Update on Alley and Midnight - Day 71
Please, I implore you, read the following, and see for yourself how well documented kava dangers are:
Here's a good start. If you learn to start thinking critically, you'll know how to find thousands of other documented data explaining the clear dangers of using kava, in both humans and pets.
Just because a vet says it's ok to use, does not mean it is. Any alternative practitioner will tell you anything, knowing full well there is documented research to prove otherwise. They are not acting in the best interests of you and your pet, but rather in the best interests for themselves. They prey on your emotions, they prey on your pocketbook, and when you continue to utilize their services and products, you are in essence, harming both your pets and yourself.
All it takes is critical thinking and common sense to refute any of the following, from the Bottled Blessings claims:
Safe and effective: of course, they never tested, nor provided studies to prove this.
Never interferes with prescribed medicines: so THEY say.
No effect if there is no imbalance...: in other words, there is either a no effect whatsoever in ANY form for ANY pet, or, there is an effect that may affect health, but you'll never know because it hasn't been tested for safety or purity or efficacy.
On their FAQ's page:
And,...
Please read this, Animals can't choose!
And this one, from their product information page:
As for homeopathy, same as above. IT DOES NOT WORK, PERIOD!!!
Irony of all ironies: A genuine homeopathic remedy is harmless while a fake homeopathic remedy may give you an overdose of a genuine medicine and thereby poison or kill you. A certified homeopathic remedy is basically pure water (or other solvent) with a fancy label sold at a high price. A fake remedy contains a real medicine at an unknown dosage and purity and is still sold for a high price.
Stay clear of homeopathy for the same reasons you would avoid herbal remedies - It is unlikely in the extreme that they will help, and they may contain something that will interfere with the standard treatments.
Here's a good start. If you learn to start thinking critically, you'll know how to find thousands of other documented data explaining the clear dangers of using kava, in both humans and pets.
Just because a vet says it's ok to use, does not mean it is. Any alternative practitioner will tell you anything, knowing full well there is documented research to prove otherwise. They are not acting in the best interests of you and your pet, but rather in the best interests for themselves. They prey on your emotions, they prey on your pocketbook, and when you continue to utilize their services and products, you are in essence, harming both your pets and yourself.
All it takes is critical thinking and common sense to refute any of the following, from the Bottled Blessings claims:
All natural: does NOT mean safe. Thousands of natural substances are lethal, and particularly so when they've been altered, adulterated, tampered with.You don't have to tolerate pet behavioral problems anymore!
Enjoy your pet again with Bottled Blessings' formulas
* Easy to use
* All natural
* Safe and Effective
* No unwanted side effects
* Never interferes with prescribed medicines
* No Effect if there is no imbalance so other pets can drink from the same water bowl
Safe and effective: of course, they never tested, nor provided studies to prove this.
Never interferes with prescribed medicines: so THEY say.
No effect if there is no imbalance...: in other words, there is either a no effect whatsoever in ANY form for ANY pet, or, there is an effect that may affect health, but you'll never know because it hasn't been tested for safety or purity or efficacy.
On their FAQ's page:
Science hasn't been able to detect it, because it DOES NOT EXIST! Here's the true science, water does not hold nor retain energy nor memory.How do these vibrational essences work?
Although science is unable to detect it, according to many teachings around the world, there is a type of energy called chi in China , or prana in India . The essences contain certain types of chi which are captured in the water and when ingested or sprayed into the aura, blend with the receivers' own etheric body or chi. This idea of chi has been highly developed in the Orient, and is the basis of Ayurveda medicine in India , acupuncture, even herbal and homeopathic medicine. We highly recommend using the flower essences with affirmations for our human users. This brings in the mental energies necessary to effect a more profound change. Of course, the animals won't need affirmations.
And,...
This should be a bright, glaring red flag to you. They want to lead you to believe they work in animals, but you should know that is a common ploy. Here is the plain truth of the matter: it's called the placebo effect, and since animals cannot tell us what effect they are or are not experiencing, it is SIMPLY the owner or prescriber's perception, nothing more. The anecdotal reports on small children and animals is observer bias. READ HERE!How effective are these formulas?
We have found them to be more effective on animals actually than on humans. Usually the greatest improvement is in the first week or two. If you haven't seen results after two weeks, you may need to increase the dosage or you haven't got the right formula. Direct usage in drinking water is best, but we have adjusted our formulation to account for spray application, such as our room sprays and some of our pet formulas. Oral dosing is also a way to deliver the remedies. In this case, only 3-4 drops is necessary per 2 CC of distilled or RO water.
Please read this, Animals can't choose!
And this one, from their product information page:
Ah yes it's a miracle!! Need more be said? Pure BS.No Spray
The most exciting product ever to hit the market for this problem. Our No Spray formula is easy to use and actually goes to work on the emotional cause of your cat's behavior problem. That's right- the cause . No other product can make this claim- not fancy litter, not fancy plug ins, sprays, pheromones or any other product on the market today. Simply put into water and watch your cat change. This formula eventually creates permanent changes- so you don't have to spend a fortune for the rest of your cat's life!
As for homeopathy, same as above. IT DOES NOT WORK, PERIOD!!!
Irony of all ironies: A genuine homeopathic remedy is harmless while a fake homeopathic remedy may give you an overdose of a genuine medicine and thereby poison or kill you. A certified homeopathic remedy is basically pure water (or other solvent) with a fancy label sold at a high price. A fake remedy contains a real medicine at an unknown dosage and purity and is still sold for a high price.
Stay clear of homeopathy for the same reasons you would avoid herbal remedies - It is unlikely in the extreme that they will help, and they may contain something that will interfere with the standard treatments.
..........Traci
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mamabear
- Formerly mamaof4soon
- Posts: 589
- Joined: Wed Apr 18, 2007 10:39 pm
- Location: The Garden State
Re: Update on Alley and Midnight - Day 71
I can't type but a short note here... I train dogs and I have to say that I know this for a fact that dogs as well as cats smell things. THey know when we are ill they know when we are pregnant or have our periods or even when we have cancer and when we take drugs. Dogs and cats act differently when we put something into our bodies IT ALSO rings true for giving a cat a drug whether it is herbal or not. If Midnight is on kava kava Alley might not the "scent" that Midnight smells like due to the kava kava. WE wont smell it but our animals can.
Don't stop the herbal suppliment because it doesnt work or it does, stop it to see if this might be the reason. ONce Midnight no longer has all of these herbal things and crystals by the cats sleeping beds and stuff in the air things might be different. Sometimes it might take months for them to get to like eachother but it seems that you are trying to use so many different things and IT DOES have an effect on the animals.
Get rid of all the stuff that you are using. And see what happens. If you are serious about bloodshed, well how bad has it been? Are we talking about these too drawing blood on eachother when they fight?......
If not then they might just be playing and it just sounds horrible. My dogs play and if you didn't know them you'd swear they were ripping eachother up.
Cats play and fuss, and hiss and swat eachother all the time. As long as there is no blood and they are fine then leave them alone. Adding all of this other stuff into your home has to be stressful for them and therefore they might be reacting to that.
Just my humble opinion, it's the only thing I can think of...
If they are shedding blood well hasnt the dr. figured out it still could be from the herbal stuff. WE dont smell it but they sure can. Dont underestimate the power of the feline nose. When they don't like something they hiss and spit and fuss.... If Midnight smells weird becuase of the stuff well i'd be hissing and spitting too.
Hugs
Don't stop the herbal suppliment because it doesnt work or it does, stop it to see if this might be the reason. ONce Midnight no longer has all of these herbal things and crystals by the cats sleeping beds and stuff in the air things might be different. Sometimes it might take months for them to get to like eachother but it seems that you are trying to use so many different things and IT DOES have an effect on the animals.
Get rid of all the stuff that you are using. And see what happens. If you are serious about bloodshed, well how bad has it been? Are we talking about these too drawing blood on eachother when they fight?......
If not then they might just be playing and it just sounds horrible. My dogs play and if you didn't know them you'd swear they were ripping eachother up.
Cats play and fuss, and hiss and swat eachother all the time. As long as there is no blood and they are fine then leave them alone. Adding all of this other stuff into your home has to be stressful for them and therefore they might be reacting to that.
Just my humble opinion, it's the only thing I can think of...
If they are shedding blood well hasnt the dr. figured out it still could be from the herbal stuff. WE dont smell it but they sure can. Dont underestimate the power of the feline nose. When they don't like something they hiss and spit and fuss.... If Midnight smells weird becuase of the stuff well i'd be hissing and spitting too.
Hugs
Almost 7 years in remission from Graves disease and no meds!
Re: Update on Alley and Midnight - Day 71
Alleysmom, I agree with the others on the Homeopathy - it doesn't work, and I tried it for many years thinking I was doing my cats a favor by trying 'gentle, natural' methods. The only herb I've had luck with is catnip. I am having similar problems to you with a new kitty, as my older cat Ozwald is an unpredictable bully. It takes time, sometimes months, for them to get used to each other. At the moment, catnip, a squirt gun, and my Voice Of Authority are the only tools in my arsenal that work.