possible uti, can't figure out which cat; new behaviors

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jessarose
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possible uti, can't figure out which cat; new behaviors

Post by jessarose »

Please excuse the length of this post, but I've been reading up on this issue on this forum and thought I should give you as much info as possible.

My roommate's cat (Madi) had a UTI about 3 weeks ago. Our deal for cat care has been I feed, she (my roommate) scoops. She has still been seeing red in the litter boxes, and since her cat has been medicated, I started to worry about my cats (Arthur and Ginny.)

To add to my worry, someone feline peed on my bed early yesterday morning- I have no idea which cat it was. Let me note here that neither of my cats (both altered) has EVER marked or had "accidents" outside of the box, unless you count Arthur being too tall for the box and overshooting. The urine in my bed was a clear light yellow, and there was a decent amount of it (about as much as I would expect in a normal clump, just spread out and soaked into the sheets.) So I soaked my bedclothes in the tub and called my vet, who recommended placing the cats in isolation all day to determine who is having issues.

I didn't see anything out of the ordinary in my cats' private boxes, although Arthur hadn't eaten much and didn't pee until I brought "his" box into the room he was isolated in. Then he peed right away and ate and drank while I was in the room (I think he was just nervous from being in a different room and separated from his sister all day.)

However, I did see some discoloration in Madi's box- there was one area that looked reddish (although it's hard to tell with the gray litter in her box- I only changed the litter to white in my cats' boxes since I had thought they were the ones with the problem.)

Arthur and Ginny are now secluded together in my room (less stressful for them if they're together, easier for me to moniter behavior) and I have observed one healthy stool passing from Arthur and a mystery clean pee from one of them when I myself was in the bathroom.

Ginny has developed a new gesture since we've moved to Boston- she will hold her tail up and her butt will wiggle so quickly that it's actually closer to a vibration. It almost looks as if she's trying to spray, but nothing comes out.

Arthur and Ginny have not seen a vet since their pre-flight checkup in Oregon 2 months ago. All their shots are up to date and so far, everything's been AOK. I am planning on keeping my eye on the box in my room, and keeping them both in my room for the time being. If I see red, I will rush them to the vet.

Several factors are affecting this situation:
a) there may be litter box/territory wars going on
b) we all moved in together 2 months ago
c) we've been trying to find litter and food that all the cats like
d) my roommate's definition of the phrase "clean litterbox" is not my ideal
e) Arthur, Ginny and I had a long cross-country flight to get here, and they had never moved anywhere before this move

Is there anything else I should be doing? Also, any ideas for how to minimize odor and tracking when the litterbox is in your bedroom? I am planning on moving our litterbox into my room so I can keep it clean to my standards, but I am not looking forward to it. I was so happy when Arthur and Ginny finally adjusted enough to start using the box on our enclosed porch...

Thanks, Jessica
jessarose
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Joined: Sat Oct 13, 2007 1:40 am
Location: Watertown, MA, USA

Post by jessarose »

update-

Arthur just peed. I watched and there was no yowling, crying, meowing or any sound made. He did try twice, but I got two smallish but normal and respectable clumps out of the box, so both times were productive. No blood.

Ginny had a healthy stool pass last night, and there were two pee clumps in the box when I woke up this morning.
mamabear
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Re: possible uti, can't figure out which cat; new behaviors

Post by mamabear »

The kitty that had the UTI should go back for reevaluation. YOur kitties need to get a check asap as well.
I saw you said enclosed porch. Please make sure they all stay indoors for their own protection against the elements and other animals. Always check your scream for damage before putting cats out there.

Please also talk to vet or have roommate talk to vet about a special diet for UTI cats and also food that can be used to help prevent it. There are foods out there formulated just for that.

If your cats are not the ones doing it then hers needs to go back asap. Call today.
Almost 7 years in remission from Graves disease and no meds!
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Traci
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Re: possible uti, can't figure out which cat; new behaviors

Post by Traci »

If you're not observing the following signs in Arthur or Ginny, chances are neither one has a UTI, although that doesn't mean you shouldn't watch them carefully for signs:

Straining in the litterbox, frequent trips to the litterbox, squatting in unusual places, urinating only small amounts or not being able to produce urine at all, blood in the urine, painful abdomen when touched or handled, anorexia, lethargy, withdrawal, pacing or nervousness, fever activity.

1) the accident on the bed could have been from any of the three cats, possibly due to stress, such as something in the environment, one of them got chased by another, or was intimidated, etc. Madi's UTI may not actually be resolved yet, your roomate should get her re-checked immediately. Whenever a UTI is diagnosed and treated with antibiotics, after the course of the antibiotics the cat should be re-evaluated and a new urinalysis done to ensure the infection has resolved and/or that no crystal formation is present.

2) I don't think confining Arthur and Ginny to one room is productive, and may in fact, cause undue stress on both of them, as well as on Madi. Anytime you drastically change something in the environment, will be stressful for all the cats. Stress is a common precursor to inciting many health problems.

3) How many litterboxes, exactly, are there in the home? There should be one for each cat, and an extra one. They should be placed in different areas of the home if possible, so that there are no intimidation incidents regarding the litterboxes. Regarding the litterbox in the enclosed porch: is the porch cold or too hot? Is it screened in, or can the cats see outside? If so, noises, noises from the street, or other noises and sights can prevent cats from using a litterbox in such an area.

4) Your roommate MUST be diligent in keeping the litterboxes scooped several times a day and thoroughly cleaned and rinsed out at least once or twice a week, otherwise, all the cats will avoid them. Why not share in those duties? If you're not happy with her litterbox cleaning, step in and keep them clean yourself. It's imperative the cats have clean litterboxes and are happy with using them.

5) Frequent changes in food/diet can be stressful on cats, and can also cause gastrointestinal imbalances, elimination problems, vomiting or other health issues. Feed them a high quality adult maintenance food (I recommend Iams, Eukanuba or Science Diet), ensure they're drinking plenty of water (have more than one dish of water available throughout the home and monitor their water intake individually). But, equally as important is keeping stress reduced to the minimum at all times.

Madi's vet should have recommended a specific diet for her, either temporarily or for long-term, depending on the factors of her UTI and her health history, age, etc. If crystals were not present or he doesn't suspect she's prone to crystals, then she could probably be fed a high quality adult maintenance diet, although the vet needs to recommend one that will level her urine pH on a consistent basis, and one that contains the smallest/minimal amount of ash/magnesium.

Likewise, don't frequently change the litterboxes, more than likely each of the cats have a certain preference. Choose only two types of litter, place one type in two litterboxes, the other type in the other two boxes. Watch the cats and their behavior/routine to determine their preferences.

6) Rather than confine Arthur and Ginny to one room, try collecting urine samples from both and get them to your vet for testing. You can achieve this by getting non-absorbable litter from your vet, placing only a small amount in the boxes, monitor them, and collect the urine via syringe (your vet can provide you one), and get it to your vet for testing. Ideally, the urine should be taken to your vet immediately, but it can be refrigerated for up to 6-8 hours (in a clean, sealed container). You can most often collect urine first thing in the morning either directly before or directly after their morning meals, as this is when they are most likely to urinate.

7) Moving and relocation are the number one causes of stress, and stress is a precursor to ANY underlying health problem. Even though you may not be seeing signs of stress due to the move at this point, always keep in mind that weeks or even months later, that stress can be "dormant" and become unleashed weeks or months later, and can cause any number of health problems. So, watch each cat very carefully for unusual behaviors, sudden behaviors, changes in eating/drinking/litterbox habits, activity levels, signs of stress or withdrawal, or any health problem, no matter how slight. If signs of stress or a health problem develop, don't wait, get the cat(s) in to your vet for a complete exam.

8 ) to address urine odor and stains, try Petastic (the original Nature's Miracle)....do not use Nature's Miracle because the brand name was sold to another manufacturer and the original formula is now Petastic. Use as directed, and allow to dry before the cats are allowed in or on or around the treated areas.

Most importantly, get Madi back to her vet for a new exam and urinalysis. You and your roommate both have indicated you are seeing blood in the litterboxes, so it could be that Madi's infection has not resolved or that she may be developing crystals which need addressed immediately. The vet may want to put her on another course of antibiotics and recheck her urine when the antibiotics course is up again.

Ask the vet about collecting urine from Arthur and Ginny for testing, and ask about the non-absorbable litter and syringes, etc. You need to get this nipped in the bud immediately, because UTI infections can worsen quite quickly, and can develop into crystals (struvite or oxalate), your vet can also recommend optimal food/diets for them.
..........Traci
jessarose
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Re: possible uti, can't figure out which cat; new behaviors

Post by jessarose »

Thank you for your replies- we've got an appointment with the vet on Monday at noon. I will have to miss class, but that's why we're allowed 2 absences per semester, right??!

As to confining Arthur and Ginny to one room- I don't think it's too stressful for them because they rarely venture out of my room on their own anyway. That's why I brought Arthur back into my room from the place he had been isolated- he was too stressed. I will try to reverse the confinement and ask my roommate to keep her cat in her room for the day so mine can have some breathing room, but for this weekend I'd rather keep the litter boxes separate.

We have two litter boxes for three cats- I have always only had one box for my two, but they USED TO go outside and are now INDOOR-ONLY, so I will get a few more boxes. We will leave one in my room :( and two on the porch and one in my roommate's room (if she agrees.) I will offer to share in the litterbox duty- it's a hard topic to broach because she gets defensive when I offer to help with "her" tasks.

Our "porch" is totally closed in and on the second floor. (Our whole apartment in on the second floor.) There are lots of windows, but we have plants in the windows that screen some of the view. The only bad thing about the porch is that it's not heated, so we need to come up with another place for the boxes once winter really rolls in. The bathroom is NOT an option- it's way too small and it's already being shared by 3 humans. Adding 3 cats is not a possiblility.

The cats are currently eating a mixture of PurinaONE "indoor advantage" and "urinary tract health". PurinaONE was recommended by my Oregon vet and it's what they've been eating for the past 3 years. My roommate had some cheaper food that we incorporated into the mix, but they're ALL back to the PurinaONE now.

I will encourage my roommate to take Madi back to the vet- she had an awful experience with the first vet she went to, so she's rather vet-shy now. I will recommend my vet to her and give her the number for the emergency vet down the road a bit in Waltham. I can't force her to take Madi in- but I will do my best to convince her that it's necessary.

Monday morning I will work on getting a urine sample- I know my cats will be too nervous to pee at the vet. My vet recommended cleaning out the box, placing a layer of saran wrap in the bottom, and placing a scant handful of litter in the box so the cats have something the scratch, then collecting the urine in the saran wrap. Has this method worked for anyone else? It seems rather messy...

Also, Ginny just peed and it looks normal. She wasn't vocalizing in the box, and her clump was normal in size and color. I went back to the porch to check Madi's box and she's definititly not over her UTI yet- that's where the red discoloration was. I'm feeling better about my cats, but a little frustrated about my roommate's cat, but I've done everything I can.

I will let you all know what happens on Monday!
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Traci
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Re: possible uti, can't figure out which cat; new behaviors

Post by Traci »

Explain to your roommate that Madi needs a re-evaluation NOW and a new urinalysis. If she is still producing blood and still has an infection, it is NOT going to resolve on it's own, the vet may choose to have her on another course of antibiotics, and he needs to make sure NO crystals are developing. Untreated UTI's can worsen in no time, and they CAN and DO lead to crystals, which are quite painful, can be obstructive, lifethreatening, and seriously problematic. She needs to understand the seriousness of this.

Your vet's method of collecting urine is fine, as long as you can grab and tie off the saran wrap without tearing or ripping it, and still be able to get the urine contained. Ideally, it should be transferred to a clean, sealable container, then taken to your vet immediately for testing. (call in advance)

PurinaONE may not be appropriate for Madi right now, the vet can recommend something more appropriate. Not that it's a bad food, but if she has reoccuring infections, or crystals, this is NOT the food for her to be on. It also may be changing her pH levels, so the vet needs to monitor the diet and recommend something else if she is not responding favorably to it. If the roommate has ill feelings or apprehension with her last vet, by all means, get her to see a new vet immediately. Madi definately needs a re-evaluation immediately.

One question, have the cats been properly introduced and acclimated together, and why aren't they allowed to congregate freely amoung each other? Are all cats vaccinated appropriately etc? The problem with confining them in small areas is stressful, does not allow for proper play and exercise, and cats can and do get stressed if they are confined in small areas, even if you rotate their rooms, etc , they should all be allowed to share the entire home together.
..........Traci
jessarose
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Re: possible uti, can't figure out which cat; new behaviors

Post by jessarose »

Hi Tracy,

The cats usually do share the house together (with some hissing and occaisional chasing), and they were properly introduced. I know my guys are up to date on vacs. My roommate says Madi is as well. However, I wanted to keep a closer eye on my cats' box this weekend, and Madi will use our box if she has any opportunity, even if it's in my room (because it's cleaner? because she wants to be alpha cat?) I can't be in my room every minute to moniter who's using the box, so therefore either Arthur/Ginny or Madi can have the rule of the house at a time. I am expecting to go back to normal relations once I establish that my cats are healthy and do not have UTI's. And my roommate claims she is going to take Madi to the vet on Monday, but she doesn't have an appointment so I'm not sure she'll be able to see the doctor. I recommended that she go in as early as the clinic opens to see if they can squeeze Madi in to be seen.

I am ordering more toys for playtime from petsmart.com this evening, hopefully we can encourage better communication between cats!

Thanks again,
Jessica
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Traci
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Re: possible uti, can't figure out which cat; new behaviors

Post by Traci »

My bad, I see you only wanted them seperated for the weekend. OK :wink:

I hope your roommate doesn't depend on a "walk-in" appt, unless on emergency. She should call and set up the appt, she can express concern that Madi is still urinating blood, they may try to get her in as soon as possible.

It sounds like you know how to get a handle on the cats' harmonious environment, toys will help, but ideally, it is the interaction from both you and your roommate with the cats. Both or each of you should spend quality time with the cats so the cats can ALL share toys, playtime, activities in the same space together. Your supervision and presence and direct involvement with their activities as a group would be ideal. They'll learn to not fear each other or feel intimidated...instead they will be more focused on the attention you're giving them and their activities as opposed to directly on each other. Choose times the environment is calm and quiet, and make those times routine, the cats will look forward to those times and their attitudes toward each other should improve greatly. It's only been a couple months, so there's lots of room to improve their relationship, but your and your roommate's active involvement with them will help.
..........Traci
jessarose
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Re: possible uti, can't figure out which cat; new behaviors

Post by jessarose »

Hello again,
Well, it seems like everything is in order and both of my cats are healthy. We're awaiting results on a urinalysis for Ginny, and I need to get a sample from Arthur to the vet as soon as I'm home long enough to get one from him.

However, I have established that Ginny is feeling threatened in "her" territory- there was another marking incident (on the floor this time) and I'm really hoping that my new rug will survive the next few months. In fact, I might just take it up and store it vertically for a while.

We're working on moving the food bowls into the same room as the other kitty, but they won't eat unless the food is in my room so we're taking slow steps with that. I moved their food from the far side of my room to the wall closest to the hallway, and will be inching it closer to the door every day until it's out in the hall, then we'll finally start moving closer to the kitchen.

I am spending less time in my room and more time in the common areas of the house and trying to encourage the cats out into those areas by grooming them out there, playing out there, trying to ignore them when we're all in my room and placing their kennels in the living room and dining room so they will have a place to retreat to (they actually like and feel safe in their kennels, it's weird, I know.)

I know that I need to get loads more Feliway to spray around the house and plug in at every possible outlet. Is there anything else I can be doing to discourage Ginny from spraying? I really don't want to have to wash everthing else at the laudromat again- it's a long walk, not to mention expensive!

Thanks,
jess
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Traci
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Re: possible uti, can't figure out which cat; new behaviors

Post by Traci »

What is it that lead you to think Ginny is feeling threatened in her territory? What does she do or other behavior does she display to lead you to think that? What is occuring directly before a urination/marking incident? Other than introductory period between the cats, what else is going on in their environment? Have you and the roommate changed anything, not necessarily regarding the cats, but about yourselves, your routines, etc?

Don't go overboard on the Feliway, according to your posts and the problems, it doesn't sound like it's doing much anyway. It won't work for all cats, and may not be a good idea to be spraying this everywhere. A better solution is ensuring you're using a proper enzymatic cleaner (i.e., Petastic), to clean the urine areas, retreat if necessary, and allowed to dry completely before the cats are allowed near the treated areas.
..........Traci
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