Good news to report about the girls, maybe!

[Susan and the girls]

Well, tonight, we've only had minimal hissing. Just after supper, Belle was sitting on one of the chair pads at the kitchen table (one of her spots), and Daisy did the headbutt thing with her again. She accepted it completely. Scarlett reared up to Belle with what looked like intentions to do the same, and Belle just lowered her ears a bit. The whole time I was talking in my high pitched "praise" voice about what sweet girls they were, calling them by name, and petting them. Scarlett slowly backed away, and no hissing took place.

Scarlett has taken on a new expression when she looks at Belle. It's not the same glare that it was - you know, that "I'm the queen of the house now" look. She now seems to seek out Belle just to look at her, and the she looks at Belle (who tolerates her coming within a few feet with no fuss) and squats down, looking at the floor. You know, that look of "submission."

Is there a light at the end of the tunnel????

I sure hope so! If they become buddies again, you'll hear me shouting the "hallelujahs" from the mountaintops! Of course, in any event, I'll still have no answers and no real solutions to offer others in similar situations. (Oh, and don't get me wrong - things aren't hunky dorey yet - just a little better because they seem to be tolerating each other a little better.)

[Traci]

Susan, just read both of your posts...it does sound like things are looking up. Good call on the calm soothing voice on your part....I think I would continue to stay out of their little spats for now and see how it goes. Yes, I still recommend as little intervention as possible, and no, would not force them to be in the same room, etc. Only my opinion, but I have found that they usually will work it out amoung themselves better than what we would rather intervene with. If we intervene too much, that in turn causes more stress and they don't see it the same as we do, it has to be in cat-language, they already know it, it's our job to learn their language at that point. (as you saw with their most recent interaction)

On that note, have you seen Jason's recent post to Kendra? Heh, worth a shot, don't you think?

[Susan and the girls]

I just read all of Kendra's recent post - seems we have quite a bit in common. I must say, though, her situation seems more sticky, since her kitties have never been on speaking terms, and there seems to be more to overcome! I sure hope her babies can learn to get along, too!

I guess I've kinda tried Jason's trick - only with treats. And like I said before, I can get them literally nose-to-nose (sniffing the same treat) with their "treat-treats." They forget all their ill-will when it comes to those chicken-flavored treats..... (Kinda like I am with chocolate - LOL!) The rest of the world doesn't seem to matter as long as they're eating treats!

Before I read your post (about still thinking forced contact isn't good for them), I had them all in the master bathroom together for about two hours. When I'd go to check on them, they were all sitting amicably several feet apart, looking quite content. I decided to let them out, and they've been quiet, but Belle and Scarlett are still watching each other very closely. I don't think it's my imagination that the stares aren't as threatening-looking. I really think it's getting less threatening. Of course, it still takes very little for Belle to grumble at Scarlett. Poor Scarlett....she's the one I blamed this on to begin with (and I still think she somehow started it), yet she's really acting like she wants to kiss and make up now. Maybe things are on the mend.

I'm going to let them have the whole house tomorrow. I told Rob - no more big scolding for hissing. We're going to try a new approach. We'll try to keep them from any threatening encounters so they won't hiss, but if they need to hiss, they can. We'll intervene only if someone chases someone else or smacks. I'll just have to hope the fights (which often led to some urine on the floor) are over. And I'll buy a black light bulb to check the place out for urine each day.......

Thanks again for all the advice. I'm hoping that if I can try a little bit of everything, SOMETHING will work!!!

[Kendra]

Glad to hear things are looking up for you!
Thats great news!

Kendra

[Traci]

You hit the nail on the head.....let them hiss and spit, growl and stare if they will, they need that outlet to get their frustration out. If we stifle that for them, the stress only builds.

You're handling this beautifully, Susan....from day one til now, it's clear that things are getting better. Maybe Belle is having residual reserves, as long as Scarlett appears to want to be near her, that's a good sign.

You're not alone, I think all of us at one time or another has faced this. It's equally hard when harmony is established and out of nowhere a situation like this develops. But you're doing an excellent job and doing your best, it's paying off!

Refer to Paulette's timely advice....you're in training for when the REAL baby comes along! (smille, it's funny )

[jason]

im working on a "cat introductions" page for the main site and its comprised of alot of things i have encounted and will of course include these particular situations (names witheld, blah blah blah).

as Traci says, keep it up...allow them to do their hissing and growling with each other...its just noise and they need that interaction to progress further.

with my introductions, i would not intervene unless scratching and heavy smacking started up and i had to be real quick about it...otherwise the cause gets confusing to them as to the effect of being seperated/confined. more so than learning that scratching is a no-no, they will (at some point) simply tolerate each others presence and from there on it should get better.

[Paulette]

Susan, I think you've reached detente! At least they're at the table talking! This is a good start and although there may still be some bumpy patches (hey, after all, people have their bad days too), I think things will start to get back to normal -- whatever that is in a household with cats.

I'm glad you're feeling better.

[Susan and the girls]

This is all such a new learning experience for me. I'm tellin' ya - when/if they do start getting along again, I'll never take my peaceful household for granted again! I've always had it so easy with them! I just don't understand it! I've learned that despite the fact that they act like humans in most ways, and they give those gazes that say they comprehend every word I say, they don't get it. Trying to reason with them about why they should get along does NOT get through those fuzzy little ears.....

One thing I wanted to say in response/agreement with Jason's post - I try VERY hard to be timely in the scolding, when we do scold. Often, by the time we've caught up with or found the offender, it has been too long for them even to know why they're being scolded. Rob kinda thinks of them as more human than I do when it comes to the comprehension issue.... He wants to go ahead and scold even if it's a minute or two past the scuffle. I know that any discipline given too late just confuses the issue. If I can't catch them in the act or immediately thereafter, they kinda get away with only a verbal warning - usually the "AAAACCCCKK!" I give when I hear the hissing/spitting/growling or scuffle.

This morning there was one hiss just after the alarm went off. (Again, they slept within inches of each other on the bed and didn't even realize it.... crazy cats.) They eyed each other carefully from around doorways the whole time I got ready, but nothing happened. The biggest thrill I got was when Daisy - the scaredy cat who hasn't been directly involved but has avoided Belle - walked (with tail high in the air) right into the room where Belle was without flinching. Thank heavens for small victories!

I "instructed" Rob to leave all the doors open today so they'll have access to each other. Hopefully I won't find a mess when I get home!

[jason]

Trying to reason with them about why they should get along does NOT get through those fuzzy little ears.....

exactly, they have to get past issues and learn in their own way..trust me, ive tried sitting mine down for a good talking to and it never worked . (im serious)

One thing I wanted to say in response/agreement with Jason's post - I try VERY hard to be timely in the scolding, when we do scold. Often, by the time we've caught up with or found the offender, it has been too long for them even to know why they're being scolded. Rob kinda thinks of them as more human than I do when it comes to the comprehension issue

ive found the immediate time-outs to have, well...immediate results...its just clicks for them when handled that way (from my experience).

they kinda get away with only a verbal warning - usually the "AAAACCCCKK!" I give when I hear the hissing/spitting/growling or scuffle.

suggestion: dont ack for the hissing/spitting/growling, allow this to just occur...you should ack and time-out when there is rough physical contact. that should eventually click for them..."oh ok, if i hiss and all its ok..as soon as i start smacking the stuffin out of this one i go to time-out"...well, sort of like that at least. cats remember well, but you want them to remember what you are really trying to teach...waiting till after they stop (or are way into it already) will teach them that your psycho and the hissing will move to you (happened to me and it has its own hurdles to get past).

I "instructed" Rob to leave all the doors open today so they'll have access to each other. Hopefully I won't find a mess when I get home!

cats are alone or with someone?

[Susan and the girls]

Jason - in response to your very last quetsion - the cats were to be alone all day and I'd planned to leave the bedroom doors open for them to have more contact, but Rob said they were hissing at each other some before he left the house. He just left Belle in our bedroom like always.

When we're at home, the house is always open for all to see each other. I guess it would be wiser not to let them have the opportunity to knock the stuffin' out of each other while we're not there all day, huh?

This morning, Daisy "loved" on Belle and she was fine with it. Scarlett slowly approached her, and Belle didn't grumble quite as loudly. She did let Scarlett know to BACK OFF, though.

I think things are improving VERRRRRRRRRY slowly. And despite the fact that they're hard-headed, I still give them a good talking to EVERY day. Hey, who knows, they may be understanding me.....