Third day, the girls still not getting along

[Susan and the girls]

I am at my wit's end. This is day 3, and still no peace in the house.

My parents had a 2'X2'X4' cage (made with 1/4" wire) that they brought over, and I put Scarlett in it in the kitchen. I brought Belle into the kitchen and 'forced' them to be in the same room. After the initial glaring and grumbling, they kinda got used to being in the same room. At one point, they were actually only a few inches apart. I could still sense the tension. (And Daisy, who was originally Switzerland in the issue, now has decided that she, too, wants nothing to do with Belle. It's not as bad as with Scarlett, but Daisy is bigger and harder to handle when she gets fussy. Luckly, she just runs and hides. When I try to hold her and let her view Belle from afar, she digs in and those back feet hurt pretty bad when she launches off.)

Anyway, when Belle would leave the kitchen, I'd take her back, feed them a half a treat or so, and even pet them simultaneously, with my hand in the cage with Scarlett. They still express absolutely no animosity toward me. I can hold either one of them grumbling, hissing, & growling, and they are fine with it. It's each other they can't stand. (Scarlett has hissed toward me, though, when I push her back away from Belle.)

I eventually opened the cage door, and Scarlett sat there, inches from Belle. I thought we were on the road to recovery.

So last night, I took a chance and left them both out and about in the house. Belle, of course, slept right next to me. At one point during the night, I awoke to find Belle sleeping at the foot of the bed and Scarlett in the middle of the bed (pinning me down under the covers) INCHES apart. At one time, Scarlett was doing her "kneading" on Belle's back!!!! I thought it was a miracle! But I really don't think they realized it was each other, because as soon as they did realize it, they hissed, and Scarlett took off.

This morning, around 3:30 am, all you-know-what broke loose again, and they were at it under the bed, rolling around, hissing, growling. Not getting much rest around my house. Rob suggested throwing them into the swimming pool to cool them off...... (It's about mid-30's here today....)

I put Scarlett back into the cage, since she really appeared to be the aggressor. (In the encounters, Belle keeps that classic backed-down look, with her face and body turned sideways to the ground, looking up with her eyes squinted as though she's waiting for the attack, and Scarlett stays on her feet, fuzzed up and arched, with her front haunches lower than the back.) At 6:00 I let her back out, and there were a few more staredowns and growls, but no direct attacks. I left Belle in the bathroom but instructed Rob to let her out so that she had the bedroom & bathroom when he got up and let the others have the rest of the house.

I am so stressed out over this. Well-meaning people have given me the "advice" to get rid of Scarlett & Daisy or to put them outside..... I get so angry at that. I have to get these girls back in good standing. I can't part with any of them. And it's just going to take time. I love them more than most folks can comprehend. Folks think this is a good "opportunity" to save myself the trouble of having to worry about them when the baby arrives. Sheesh. Some people just don't get it, do they?? They're not just animals. They're my girls, and I am determined to get this worked out!

Anybody know a good animal behavioral specialist in the northeast Georgia area????

[kate & kobi]

I don't know what to say, Susan, but I sure hope things get better for you soon! My prayers for peace among your girls.

((hugs))
kate

[Traci]

Susan, I can't claim to know your kitties or what is right for them, but I stand behind what I said originally.....the less interference from YOU, the better. They need to work this out amoung themselves, with as minimal intervention from you as possible. The short time-outs should be continued, but I don't think the cage idea is the best, since they can still see each other and with the introduction of something new (the cage), it may only be adding to the stress.

Again, do not force them into seeing/interacting together. The only thing you should be doing is intervening when there is an actual physical attack. Firm NO's followed by prompt seperation and confinement are best. Again, confine the one who instigated the attack, and when confined, do NOT interact with that kitty, NOR the others.

You didn't mention much of Rob's interaction. Perhaps he should be taking more action than you. If you are generally the one who does the discipline in the home, maybe HIS intervention will be the key (the cats wouldn't be used to his intervention, therefore, they may respond better)

Since the behavior was a sudden occurance, this leads me to believe it can be rectified in a timely manner. If they are sensing YOUR stress, they will in turn, direct that toward one another. Try letting Rob be the referee for a day or so and see what happens. Don't favor any of the cats, simply remain as reserved as you can, don't pay special attention to the one who instigates, and if you have to, try to come up with another attention-getter, like shaking a can of coins, anything you can think of they don't like and will clearly recognize that they will be ignored/reprimanded if they do it again. Repeated confinements, your refusal in paying special attention to anyone in particular should be working.

I know it's stressful and frustrating, but you have to find what works best for them. Wish I could think of more for you

[Paulette]

Hi Susan,
I'm coming in a little late to this, but I agree with Traci. An animal behaviorist told me not to take sides in these disputes. The cats have to work it out and they will! It's important to introduce cats slowly and not force things. It's natural that you want one big happy family and you will eventually have a peaceable kingdom again. Has there been any bloodshed? If not, it's most likely a lot of hissing & swatting which can be upsetting for the observer, but if there hasn't been any actual bodily injury by now, there probably won't be.

Traci is right about the cage -- I tried that method with mine and it lasted one day -- the poor stray was so upset he had the "runs" all over the cage! Each cat needs its own space. Do you have a spare bedroom with a window? I don't know if you live in a house or an apartment, but I know that too many cats in a small space can cause aggression. There's nothing wrong in confining the aggresser, but in order to get the message across you need to be consistent. Do it every time the behavior occurs--even if it's just for 10 minutes. However, I do think that when there is no supervision, they should be kept separated. You can leave the TV or radio on in the room and some toys, etc. You know how it goes!

Also, I think Traci's right about Rob doing some discipline. My Poopie is a real handful and when I scold her she just laughs & swats me! But when my husband scolds, she sasses him, but she listens.

I feel the same way about my babies. They are my children and I feel very responsible/protective of them. I haven't gone on vacation in four years because I haven't found someone I trust to care for them. Your love for them is why you're so upset about this. You love them and want them to love each other!!

Just think of it as good training for when you have a few kiddies!! Ha, just kidding. LOL

[Susan and the girls]

Thanks to all of you for responding. I know you all understand my feelings, and I appreciate it.

Traci - So far, I haven't let Rob do any major reprimanding. I have heard him telling Scarlett "no," when she starts her growling. (The staring contests often escalate into the growling, which turns into the bristling, and eventually becomes the outright attacks.) He also gets between them or puts something between them to break their stare. I do that too, but I think it sometimes just makes them that much more aggravated.

I try not to take sides, even though it's hard not to when I see Scarlett being so tough on my Belle. Remember, Belle's my firstborn , and they all know she's my overall favorite, and so I feel extra protective over her. And when I see this teeny little 6-7 pounder pounding on her, it's just not fair. (Belle sometimes hisses first, which makes Rob say it's not Scarlett, but when I witness it, Belle's hissing because Scarlett is in that offensive mode.) And Rob tends to take up for Scarlett because she's "his" cat. (She loves on him more than the others do.)

When they're separated, and I am spending time with them individually, the house is perfect. Scarlett is loving and kissy as always. Belle is purring and cuddly as always. Daisy is still uneasy, but purring and enjoying all the attention. Things just aren't the same since they haven't been together, though. It's like you can cut the tension with a knife.

Traci - my only problem with letting them approach each other and re-establish their boundaries is the carpet. This morning I had to clean up urine that was "spilled" during their fuss. i just can't handle that - not only because it's new carpet, but because it's a type of berber carpet that can't be professionally cleaned as well (remember, Rob owns a commercial carpet cleaning business, so I've gotten that piece of info from a professional), but because the baby will be here in a few months, and I don't cherish the idea of putting him down on a floor where a cat has peed.

The house is large, and there's plenty of "space" for them to have their own space, but they seek each other out to settle the issue. Can I at least confine them to the kitchen (somehow, with something blocking the door) to let them hash it out? I just don't want pee everywhere!! I've seen that most of the fighting isn't really that injurious; it just sounds really awful.

Thanks for all the help!!!!

[LisaLisa]

Susan,

How are the girls doing? I hope all has settled down in your household.

MA posted today on another link and I thought it may be helpful to you.

http://www.cathelp-online.com/phpBB2/vi ... light=mean.

BTW--congratulations on your soon to be new addition to your family. that's great news

Take care

[Susan and the girls]

Thanks everyone for the continued support. Like I told Kendra, maybe the holidays will bring us "peace on earth and goodwill among our kitties."

Day 5 and things aren't back to normal with the girls yet. I think there has been some improvement ---- not a lot, but some. And any improvement is good. We have about one major fuss a day, and yes, it is mainly a lot of noise. So far there hasn't been one scratch or injury to anyone. But it upsets Belle so much when it happens that I can't stand it. (She hides and trembles for a while afterwards unless I really pet her and try to calm her down.) And Daisy has been hiding the majority of the day. Another big concern for us is that from last night to tonight, there were signs of only two litterbox activities - two urines in the box - for three kitties. They've all been eating less, but they are eating and drinking. I have heard them in the litterboxes twice since Rob scooped, though, so I think that's ok.

Traci - Rob managed the discipline yesterday, and I couldn't help but laugh. We decided that they have no respect whatsoever for him. LOL All he has to do is scold them and they outright hiss at him. It's like they're saying, "NO WAY ARE WE LISTENING TO YOU, BUDDY!" They never hiss back at me when I scold them. (Of course, their mockery only served to irritate Rob further.) He mainly smacks the fly swatter on the floor to make noise to startle them now, since they talk back to him so quickly. LOL

And about the cage - Scarlett thinks it's her palace. I leave the door open, and she goes in whenever she pleases. She seems to consider it a fun place to be, not stressful. Even when I close the door, she never attempts to get out, and she never howls like she's trapped. So I have continued to use it; when Belle is in the kitchen, I put Scarlett in it just so they'll have to be close. Earlier this evening, I had Scarlett & Belle just a couple of feet apart (with Scarlett in the cage) and they were happily eating treats. I opened the door and Scarlett came out, and they were happily eating their treats about 3-6 inches apart, until Belle realized it. When she grumbled, Scarlett backed up.

I think Scarlett would make up if Belle would let the past go. But Belle really appears terrified of Scarlett. It worries me because Belle is showing some signs of depression now. And silly Daisy lives under the couch.

I can't let them be together during the day to work things out on their own simply because of how they urinate when they fight. I leave the option open for them to see each other whenever I'm at home, though. They mainly keep their distance, and hold staring contests from across the room. During the day, Belle has the master bedroom and bath, and the other two have the rest of the house. Belle seems content with that, since she gets the bed and the window seat in that bargain.

Hopefully I'll have good news to report soon. This certainly has been the week from you-know-where!

Too bad the pet psychic isn't for real..... LOL I sure could use some insight! LOL